The Musician's Gig Room Chat V1 - Songwriting and Sound Design for all! - Creationism Corner

[QUOTE=Speedhax;51506629] This is the loudest track I've ever heard. Like holy fucking shit dude. I like the song but I personally don't like this kind of mastering. Monstercat does it and so do lots of mainstream electronic acts so I guess it just sounds professional. It would probably be bangin in a club[/QUOTE] Haha I don't know if that's good or bad. The mastering on it had such little time put into it. I'll definitely pass it over better later. Could you post an example of a song you mean?

[QUOTE=The Janitor;51506760]Haha I don't know if that's good or bad. The mastering on it had such little time put into it. I'll definitely pass it over better later. Could you post an example of a song you mean?[/QUOTE] I picked a random song from monstercat [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y_NJg-xoeE[/url]

[QUOTE=Hobo4President;51497085] some minimal techno or something [media]http://soundcloud.com/philmaah/int01[/media] a bit more dancey this one [media]http://soundcloud.com/philmaah/int03[/media] [/QUOTE] Between these two I like the latter the best. Both are solid, but I feel like Int03 is a bit more excitable. It pretty much kept engaged the entire way through, while the other one sorta made me doze off. Not in a negative way I should note. It just had less going on, but you mention it yourself its minimalist so perhaps that's the point. [QUOTE=The Janitor;51505891] _____________________________ I've updated a track I'm working on, really happy with the progress and now my holidays have started I can finish an EP. [media]https://soundcloud.com/viyres/cct3[/media] Really want to improve my drums as usual and probably work on the bass line a little more.[/QUOTE] Duuuuuude! That was fucking killer. Really enjoyed it. My only criticism is that towards the end around the 2:00 mark it feels like it repeats one too many times. Which totally broke the flow for me. But that's just me. ______________________________________________________________ So I've been off the radar lately. Had a lot of different stuff going on, but I decided I need to get back writing more regularly. This piece here is not finished I have more to write, but just wanted to see you guys are digging the direction its going. In the Simulation [media]http://soundcloud.com/russiangodfather/in-the-simulation[/media]

[QUOTE=The Janitor;51506623]I'd advise learning learning why you'd actually turn a certain knob for a certain sound. Playing around is okay till you hit a wall and need a specific sound and can't think of how to make it.[/QUOTE] That's pretty much my biggest stop right now, my musical background is 100℅ as a vocal performer so I understand classical theory and have worked with Ableton but aside from drum tracks I'm totally oblivious to production methods. Any good tutorials you guys could suggest? I'd find my own but I'd like to get some referrals if I'm going on a hu Fred episode oddessy

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51507175]That's pretty much my biggest stop right now, my musical background is 100℅ as a vocal performer so I understand classical theory and have worked with Ableton but aside from drum tracks I'm totally oblivious to production methods. Any good tutorials you guys could suggest? I'd find my own but I'd like to get some referrals if I'm going on a hu Fred episode oddessy[/QUOTE] I'm reading a pdf of a textbook called Dance Music Manual by Rick Snoman. It's honestly the best thing I've read on the subject of sound synthesis, going into really good detail. But if you're looking to learn your DAW more then youtube is fine.

[QUOTE=Rich209;51506988]So I've been off the radar lately. Had a lot of different stuff going on, but I decided I need to get back writing more regularly. This piece here is not finished I have more to write, but just wanted to see you guys are digging the direction its going. In the Simulation [media]http://soundcloud.com/russiangodfather/in-the-simulation[/media][/QUOTE] Most definitely digging this, getting some Portal vibes from that piano that kicks in at 1:08, it makes that particular portion sound somewhat hypnotizing, I think it would have been great to extend that particular bit a little more, before resolving it in 1:27. The Bass sound that crescendos around 0:24 is also pretty neat, I personally would go more crazy with it. ________________________________________________ So after a year of hiatus pretty much, I decided to finally get some decent vsti's and get away from using the shitty synth inside my cheap keyboard (Which also was rather unflexible to work with in comparision). This is the result of playing around with it for a while. It's kinda WIP because I wanna add vocals some day where the piano is now, but I lack a proper microphone for that yet. [url]https://my.mixtape.moe/hguzci.mp3[/url]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51507175]That's pretty much my biggest stop right now, my musical background is 100℅ as a vocal performer so I understand classical theory and have worked with Ableton but aside from drum tracks I'm totally oblivious to production methods. Any good tutorials you guys could suggest? I'd find my own but I'd like to get some referrals if I'm going on a hu Fred episode oddessy[/QUOTE] Dance Music Manual is a good start, I'm also working my way through the ableton manual. It's fucking huge but it's helped a lot already and I've used ableton for years beforehand. The synths manuals as well.

[QUOTE=The Janitor;51511151]Dance Music Manual is a good start, I'm also working my way through the ableton manual. It's fucking huge but it's helped a lot already and I've used ableton for years beforehand. The synths manuals as well.[/QUOTE] I'm also trying to make my way through Harmony and Voice Leading but it's a difficult read. It's not really made for people like me who don't really like reading sheet music. I kind of consider the playlist part of a DAW the new type of sheet music in a way.

[QUOTE=Rich209;51506988] So I've been off the radar lately. Had a lot of different stuff going on, but I decided I need to get back writing more regularly. This piece here is not finished I have more to write, but just wanted to see you guys are digging the direction its going. In the Simulation [media]http://soundcloud.com/russiangodfather/in-the-simulation[/media][/QUOTE] I love the sound of this! It's got a slow build up to hold your attention and the slightly dark atmosphere to it is one of my favourite things to hear. The whole feeling/sound of it is very well done and comes off professional quality. How much more do you think you'll add to this? This is my first time back in Ableton after about a 10 month break. The song structure came out fairly well, just gotta get more familiar all the effects available to make it "sound" a lot better. [media]https://soundcloud.com/scarletharvest/crusaders-resolve[/media]

Alright, I'm thinking of finally getting myself some of that really good shit. Like, Kontakt 5 and the Komplete package. What is the best audio sample for strings? [editline]16th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=4yourmalice;51514777]I love the sound of this! It's got a slow build up to hold your attention and the slightly dark atmosphere to it is one of my favourite things to hear. The whole feeling/sound of it is very well done and comes off professional quality. How much more do you think you'll add to this? This is my first time back in Ableton after about a 10 month break. The song structure came out fairly well, just gotta get more familiar all the effects available to make it "sound" a lot better. [media]https://soundcloud.com/scarletharvest/crusaders-resolve[/media][/QUOTE] I'm not entirely sure about what's going on at 0:16 to 0:19 because it sounds atonal? I really like the sound of the drums however, and I really dig the chord progression you've got going. I think what you might be after is perhaps some reverb? The snare in particular I think could go really well with some PWaaah type of reverb, gently mixed in. I dig this, I nod my head to it. Are you capable of playing guitar? Because I think a distorted guitar could really make this track pop out. What effects do you have in this track? A general addition of reverb could probably make this track pop out. Thought ; Pan stuff to either left or right, make a send with a delay to the other side and see if it could give the track some pretty cool room? :) I started dabbling with what I think is the double harmonic scale? Byzanite scale I think it is called too, so... Here's a track called Byzanite. [media]https://soundcloud.com/skriket/byzanite[/media]

[QUOTE=The Janitor;51505891] I've updated a track I'm working on, really happy with the progress and now my holidays have started I can finish an EP. [media]https://soundcloud.com/viyres/cct3[/media] [/QUOTE] This is super good, love all the synths and the general progression of the song. But like Speedhax said it sounds loud almost to the point of excessive, kinda like you went a little too crazy with the limiter/compression. Just my two cents though, from what I understand this is sort of the norm nowadays anyway. Overall its still great though. Anyway just dropped a beat tape/EP a few weeks ago, lookin for some feedback on the general mix quality [url]https://soundcloud.com/gaenggaeng/sets/nathan-jay-the-dorothy-ep[/url]

[QUOTE=Skeeter;51536328] I'm not entirely sure about what's going on at 0:16 to 0:19 because it sounds atonal? I really like the sound of the drums however, and I really dig the chord progression you've got going. I think what you might be after is perhaps some reverb? The snare in particular I think could go really well with some PWaaah type of reverb, gently mixed in. I dig this, I nod my head to it. Are you capable of playing guitar? Because I think a distorted guitar could really make this track pop out. What effects do you have in this track? A general addition of reverb could probably make this track pop out. Thought ; Pan stuff to either left or right, make a send with a delay to the other side and see if it could give the track some pretty cool room? :) I started dabbling with what I think is the double harmonic scale? Byzanite scale I think it is called too, so... Here's a track called Byzanite. [media]https://soundcloud.com/skriket/byzanite[/media][/QUOTE] I appreciate all your input. I do play guitar, in fact it's been my main instrument for the last 13 years and only this past year have I started learning Piano/keyboard. How do you "pan" things to the left or right? Great song on your end by the way. The mystical tone of the song is really hynotizing. Reminds me a more modern Led Zeppelin kinda thing. How long have you been playing the guitar? (assuming that's you on the song) Also, question for everyone in general. How do you get a song to sound louder, without it getting too crackly and being in the "red" zone?

[QUOTE=4yourmalice;51540054]I appreciate all your input. I do play guitar, in fact it's been my main instrument for the last 13 years and only this past year have I started learning Piano/keyboard. How do you "pan" things to the left or right? Great song on your end by the way. The mystical tone of the song is really hynotizing. Reminds me a more modern Led Zeppelin kinda thing. How long have you been playing the guitar? (assuming that's you on the song) Also, question for everyone in general. How do you get a song to sound louder, without it getting too crackly and being in the "red" zone?[/QUOTE] Compression!

[QUOTE=Ott;51540063]Compression![/QUOTE] So you just add compression, and then increase the volume? What types of Compression would you recommend?

Just remember to not overdo the compression, if you decide to do it you should only gently push the peaks a little lower to where they aren't extremely high anymore, but still above all else. If you can't get too much loudness out of that, don't bother with it too much, as overcompressing for the sake of extreme loudness is a pretty ugly thing and can make your music sound awful. Imho Loudness is overrated, but how much it actually effects your song can only be judged on a case-by-case basis. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war[/url]

Thank you for all the info! The "Loudness War" sounds like an interesting article. I'll read through it all later on. You're right that each song is different and may or may not need the 'loud' effect. I've found that adding a duplicate layer of a section, helps make it sound more full and comes off as louder anyways.

[QUOTE=4yourmalice;51540142]Thank you for all the info! The "Loudness War" sounds like an interesting article. I'll read through it all later on. You're right that each song is different and may or may not need the 'loud' effect. I've found that adding a duplicate layer of a section, helps make it sound more full and comes off as louder anyways.[/QUOTE] Be careful when doing that! If your section has lots of changes in volume, duplicating the section can really emphasise those peaks and make them hard to manage

I like to use the Ableton saturator device on my master track as a way to increase loudness. Sometimes distortion is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Warship;51542683]I like to use the Ableton saturator device on my master track as a way to increase loudness. Sometimes distortion is a good thing.[/QUOTE] Distortion on things that occupy the lower frequencies (<200hz) is a godgiven to get clarity out of them since the distortion drives up the harmonics. Gives the bass a really warm, fuzzy tone if done right. :) [editline]17th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=4yourmalice;51540142]Thank you for all the info! The "Loudness War" sounds like an interesting article. I'll read through it all later on. You're right that each song is different and may or may not need the 'loud' effect. I've found that adding a duplicate layer of a section, helps make it sound more full and comes off as louder anyways.[/QUOTE] The louder something is, the more "full" it will sound. The ear tricks you into thinking that louder sounds better because that's the way our ear is constructed sadly. The best way to make something sound good and full is using the EQ to find the frequencies that sound good and are the fundamental ones to that particular track, and performing surgery on other tracks and cut down the frequencies on those tracks. I.E a bass track, a guitar track and a synth track. You want the bass to be... bass, guitar for the upper frequencies and synth in the middle for instance. Cut down bass on synth and guitar, that way you open up space for the bass. Cut down mid on guitar, and cut down high on synth. THat way, you can have all the individual pieces at a higher volume without frequencies clashing and the fundamental sound of each instrument to truly come forward. Obviously this is a VERY simplified structure, I have found that the best way to deal with mixing is to think of it as a glass. You can fill it (boosting frequencies with EQ) but you'll never get a glass that isn't overflowing if all you do is add ingredients and stuff to the glass. Instead, you need to figure out what is important in the glass, and what isn't. Making a drink? Not too much liquour, or it'll just taste like that (I.E have too much high frequencies).

[QUOTE=Skeeter;51536328]Alright, I'm thinking of finally getting myself some of that really good shit. Like, Kontakt 5 and the Komplete package. What is the best audio sample for strings? [editline]16th December 2016[/editline] I'm not entirely sure about what's going on at 0:16 to 0:19 because it sounds atonal? I really like the sound of the drums however, and I really dig the chord progression you've got going. I think what you might be after is perhaps some reverb? The snare in particular I think could go really well with some PWaaah type of reverb, gently mixed in. I dig this, I nod my head to it. Are you capable of playing guitar? Because I think a distorted guitar could really make this track pop out. What effects do you have in this track? A general addition of reverb could probably make this track pop out. Thought ; Pan stuff to either left or right, make a send with a delay to the other side and see if it could give the track some pretty cool room? :) I started dabbling with what I think is the double harmonic scale? Byzanite scale I think it is called too, so... Here's a track called Byzanite. [media]https://soundcloud.com/skriket/byzanite[/media][/QUOTE] That sounds really slick, love the guitars Have been working on abit of rap game lately, came up with this but I ain't no rapper, so if someone wants to rap over this for me that would be cool [media]https://soundcloud.com/mrstaneh/oldskool[/media]

[QUOTE=Staneh;51544055]That sounds really slick, love the guitars Have been working on abit of rap game lately, came up with this but I ain't no rapper, so if someone wants to rap over this for me that would be cool [media]https://soundcloud.com/mrstaneh/oldskool[/media][/QUOTE] Not bad, but I feel like the synth should be a bit less distorted and more compressed Also the hat is kinda boring, maybe put some reverb or delay on it, maybe a subtle flanger, as well as making it a tad less loud And bring that bassline up boy! I wanna feel it in my ears :v: Here's something I've cooked up over the past weeks, it's missing cymbals but I don't know if I should add them. It still needs work as there are a couple spots where the CPU skips processing [media]https://soundcloud.com/xuzul/xuzul-alas-wip[/media]

[QUOTE=Skeeter;51536328] I started dabbling with what I think is the double harmonic scale? Byzanite scale I think it is called too, so... Here's a track called Byzanite. [media]https://soundcloud.com/skriket/byzanite[/media][/QUOTE] I like the atmosphere behind this. Has a nice proggy feel to it as well. My only gripe would be that it is rather monotonous. But only for an instrumental. If you add some expressive vocals over it, it's golden. Also I really like the bass-drum groove throughout the piece. The production is solid as well, maybe the lead guitar could be blended a tiiiiny little bit into the rest of the instrumentation, but that is just my taste I suppose. Anyhow, for the last few months I've been playing guitar in a newfounded post-rock band, also writing a fair deal of the tracks. I usually make a draft of the structure in Reaper with guitars and programmed bass/drums, then bring it to rehearsal. It's been a while since I posted anything here for you guys to hear, so I thought maybe I could get your opinion on a track I'm bringing in tomorrow. It is still a heavy WIP, hence the cut off ending, but the idea remains. [media]https://soundcloud.com/haharijs/track-2-demo[/media]

[QUOTE=CupUp;51550721] Anyhow, for the last few months I've been playing guitar in a newfounded post-rock band, also writing a fair deal of the tracks. I usually make a draft of the structure in Reaper with guitars and programmed bass/drums, then bring it to rehearsal. It's been a while since I posted anything here for you guys to hear, so I thought maybe I could get your opinion on a track I'm bringing in tomorrow. It is still a heavy WIP, hence the cut off ending, but the idea remains. [media]https://soundcloud.com/haharijs/track-2-demo[/media][/QUOTE] I read that as : "Newfoundland Post-Rock band" at first, and wondered what genre that sounds like. Anyways, I dig the ideas you've laid down here. Is this all from one song, or more of a collection of riffs that may or may not end up all together? Your leads all fit really with the backing track you're playing. The shift to a bit of a darker tone about half way through the song was a nice change as well. Here's a song that I whipped up yesterday. Getting more and more familiar with Ableton and starting to feel a bit more satisfied with what I'm producing. The track I posted about a week ago has been updated as well for anyone wanting to check that out. It's all on my Soundcloud page. [media]https://soundcloud.com/scarletharvest/descend-into-my-realm[/media]

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51549158] Here's something I've cooked up over the past weeks, it's missing cymbals but I don't know if I should add them. It still needs work as there are a couple spots where the CPU skips processing [media]https://soundcloud.com/xuzul/xuzul-alas-wip[/media][/QUOTE] I really like the melody that starts at about 1:35. It's just a pleasant ambient song. I think you could work on the drums though, they have a bit too much of a "cheap stock drum kit" feel to them, maybe it was intentional but I feel like it would go better with a more techno-esque set of drums. It also feels like the song doesn't really go much of anywhere, and while that's a characteristic of ambient music, it feels like there isn't really a progression as much as just cycling through different patterns with the same sounds, if that makes any sense. Trance music attempt: [media]https://soundcloud.com/grandmamax/you-cant-do-that[/media]

[QUOTE=halofreak472;51560513]I really like the melody that starts at about 1:35. It's just a pleasant ambient song. I think you could work on the drums though, they have a bit too much of a "cheap stock drum kit" feel to them, maybe it was intentional but I feel like it would go better with a more techno-esque set of drums. It also feels like the song doesn't really go much of anywhere, and while that's a characteristic of ambient music, it feels like there isn't really a progression as much as just cycling through different patterns with the same sounds, if that makes any sense. Trance music attempt: [media]https://soundcloud.com/grandmamax/you-cant-do-that[/media][/QUOTE] It's a little fast for my tastes in trance. There's a little too much reverb. The trilling synth is too loud when it goes up an octave. It could use some more sidechaining. I like the bassline but it might be a little too distorted. You overuse the amen lead-in. String melody at 3:20 is kinda wonky. Chords are good. Nice sense of movement. The ending chord should be back at the root position of your scale. Made some Chemical Brothers-Propellerheads big beat. [video]https://soundcloud.com/ottworks/action-blues-2[/video]

[QUOTE=4yourmalice;51557329]I read that as : "Newfoundland Post-Rock band" at first, and wondered what genre that sounds like. Anyways, I dig the ideas you've laid down here. Is this all from one song, or more of a collection of riffs that may or may not end up all together? Your leads all fit really with the backing track you're playing. The shift to a bit of a darker tone about half way through the song was a nice change as well. Here's a song that I whipped up yesterday. Getting more and more familiar with Ableton and starting to feel a bit more satisfied with what I'm producing. The track I posted about a week ago has been updated as well for anyone wanting to check that out. It's all on my Soundcloud page. [media]https://soundcloud.com/scarletharvest/descend-into-my-realm[/media][/QUOTE] Knowing how pretentious the post-rock community can be, I wouldn't be surprised if "Newfoundland post-rock" would be an actual genre. Thanks for the feedback. The sections are more or less for a single song, I am always trying to get away from that "collection of riffs" feeling, and making seamless, sensible transitions between sections is the fucking hardest thing ever when writing music. I took a listen to your song. I like the fact that there is a single melody flowing throughout the whole track. It doesn't get dull, because it has variations in instrumentation, and it also helps building an atmosphere.

[QUOTE=CupUp;51560990]Knowing how pretentious the post-rock community can be, I wouldn't be surprised if "Newfoundland post-rock" would be an actual genre. Thanks for the feedback. The sections are more or less for a single song, I am always trying to get away from that "collection of riffs" feeling, and making seamless, sensible transitions between sections is the [b]fucking hardest thing ever when writing music.[/b] I took a listen to your song. I like the fact that there is a single melody flowing throughout the whole track. It doesn't get dull, because it has variations in instrumentation, and it also helps building an atmosphere.[/QUOTE] I hear that. Always have a bunch of ideas lying around, just can't put them together and make it feel natural. I'm glad my song could hold your attention, despite it being the one melody like you mentioned. I guess it ended up that way, to keep it short and simple, so it would go nicely as an "intro" track on an album.

[QUOTE=Ott;51560656]It's a little fast for my tastes in trance. There's a little too much reverb. The trilling synth is too loud when it goes up an octave. It could use some more sidechaining. I like the bassline but it might be a little too distorted. You overuse the amen lead-in. String melody at 3:20 is kinda wonky. Chords are good. Nice sense of movement. The ending chord should be back at the root position of your scale. Made some Chemical Brothers-Propellerheads big beat. [video]https://soundcloud.com/ottworks/action-blues-2[/video][/QUOTE] This is super awesome. Totally sounds like something from the Matrix soundtrack. The driving rhythm / bass gets a little loud at times though like at 1:40 / 2:09 / 3:05. It felt a little bit like it needed some relief somewhere a bit earlier than 2:50 also. There feel like a bit too much going on at times as well. The bongos/congas at 3:10 > are super awesome, but I felt like they should have been given a bit more room to breathe, I wanted to hear them more. -- Its been a couple months since I tried making anything, so the first thing I did on Christmas break was fool around and try to make a little John Wick 2 inspired thingy. [video]https://soundcloud.com/user-229460575/cqc[/video]

[QUOTE=Smeetin;51562987]This is super awesome. Totally sounds like something from the Matrix soundtrack. The driving rhythm / bass gets a little loud at times though like at 1:40 / 2:09 / 3:05. It felt a little bit like it needed some relief somewhere a bit earlier than 2:50 also. There feel like a bit too much going on at times as well. The bongos/congas at 3:10 > are super awesome, but I felt like they should have been given a bit more room to breathe, I wanted to hear them more. -- Its been a couple months since I tried making anything, so the first thing I did on Christmas break was fool around and try to make a little John Wick 2 inspired thingy. [video]https://soundcloud.com/user-229460575/cqc[/video][/QUOTE] The bassline? doesn't really work. It's not heavy enough (too bouncy) and the notes of the second part just sound wonky. Percussion could use more variance, the samples start to get old. Try a flanger or phaser. The pitched ambience thing is interesting but kind of breaks the mood. Try making it more subtle. I'm not listening on very good speakers so maybe there is a sub, but stealth tracks usually have a rhythmic sub on them. Listen to the Fallout 4 wasteland soundtrack, it makes good use of sub. [editline]21st December 2016[/editline] If you do have a sub, saturate it a bit and maybe put some reverb on it to make it audible on more equipment.

That looks totally worth it though, so cool