The Musician's Gig Room Chat V1 - Songwriting and Sound Design for all!

[wauterboi]

I genuinely enjoy the music you guys throw up, especially Gyroscope's stuff. I listen to a lot of your guys' music on the go.

[Warship]

[QUOTE=spencerb;47371773]

[media]http://soundcloud.com/spencer-nicholas-baggett/legend-of-the-waste[/media]

[media]http://soundcloud.com/spencer-nicholas-baggett/firestorm[/media][/QUOTE]

Very nice, I like the general tone of these. The second track is well done with its change in mood I think, and it kind of reminds me of the Portal 2 soundtrack in the beginning.

Yesterday, I had the itch for some music making since I had not done anything for a while. I sat down and made this in a pretty short amount of time:

[media]http://soundcloud.com/thedanielholt/42a[/media]

[Tone Float]

So I have this friend, she's all artsy and psychedelic and counterculture and stuff, she's:
* vegan
* likes Nirvana
* likes Beatles
* likes Bob Marley
* a not-bad painter
* smokes weed, likes LSD, etc etc

But she wants to explore expressing herself with music. She has a ukulele and can play it a little bit, but she's recently put up a crowdfunding thing because she's decided she wants a theremin:

[quote]My whole life, I've been (like everyone else) searching for a purpose. I have always been taken with music, but I have never really found what I want to play. I played the ukulele for a while, but I just felt...limited. It's always been hard for me to find my niche, if you will. However, I saw someone play the theremin a few months ago and something inside me just clicked. If you don't know what a theremin is, it s an electronic instrument that is not touched when played. You remember those "weeeoooohweee" sounds on those old corny alien movies? Well, that's it, although the theremin is perfectly capable of creating serious music, too. I have trouble communicating my thoughts and feelings more often than not, but when I hear the theremin, I feel like my heart is singing and everyone can finally hear it. I was excited to learn that theremins can be made, however, I have no experience working with electricity at all and don't want to injure myself. Factory-made theremin can get a little pricey and, being 18 and freshly out of highschool, $500 is way out of my price range. That's where you come in. Please, I'm begging you. Please help me achieve my dream of playing the theremin. It takes a lot of work and a lot of heart, but I promise that if I raise enough money to buy a theremin, I won't stop until I'm a world famous thereminist and I make every one of you cry from the beauty of my music. Every little bit helps. Every bird needs to find its voice before it can sing. Won't you help me sing?[/quote]

I reaaaaallly think a theremin is a long shot, because #1 it's expensive as hell, while she lives on a pretty small amount of money and #2 it's NOT a very typical musical instrument, eg it doesn't define the notes for you, you have to find them yourself.

I want to help her out without crushing her dreams, and without donating a ludicrous amount of money, so I want to recommend a musical instrument for her to try. What would be good for her? I was thinking a flute or something, 'cause that's a similar airy tone and it does have definitive notes.

I myself play guitar quite well but I understand the basic concepts of theory and of most musical instruments.

[editline]28th March 2015[/editline]

Her boyfriend plays bass guitar, I've never heard him but I'll assume he's not garbage at it.

[Skeeter]

Yeah I mean a theremin is a cool instrument and all, BUT you get tired of playing one really quick, because it is not only incredibly hard to play (it's seemingly random at times, even when you try to do shit that repeats) but also because it can't really do much. Most other instruments you can play chords and combine both melody and some sort of rhytmic backing instrument.

If she wants to do dope shit then she should look into synthesizers, they're cheaper (you can get those small korg monotrons for... $50?) but they're also a whole lot more modable. Mic them up and you can create cool feedback stuff, or put them in effect chains and you can do almost ANYTHING with them.

Tell her to look into synths, microkorgs are fucking amazing and the shit you can do with one of those, I mean... Wow.

Seriously, theremins sound cool, but they're about as much fun after 15 minutes as watching rocks slowly erode.

[Patrick]

can't go wrong with a keyboard/synth if you want to do weird sounds while not being limited.

I recommend an acoustic guitar, guitar + vocals is a great way to reach a wide audience.

[editline]29th March 2015[/editline]

so long as it isnt acoustic covers of nirvana and beatles songs

[Tone Float]

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;47415161]can't go wrong with a keyboard/synth if you want to do weird sounds while not being limited.

I recommend an acoustic guitar, guitar + vocals is a great way to reach a wide audience.[/quote]

As I said she's already got a ukulele, and she says she has small hands, I doubt she'd want to upsize to a full guitar

[quote]so long as it isnt acoustic covers of nirvana and beatles songs[/QUOTE]

Ehe, no guarantees :p

[killerteacup]

[QUOTE=Skeeter;47414992]Yeah I mean a theremin is a cool instrument and all, BUT you get tired of playing one really quick, because it is not only incredibly hard to play (it's seemingly random at times, even when you try to do shit that repeats) but also because it can't really do much. Most other instruments you can play chords and combine both melody and some sort of rhytmic backing instrument.

If she wants to do dope shit then she should look into synthesizers, they're cheaper (you can get those small korg monotrons for... $50?) but they're also a whole lot more modable. Mic them up and you can create cool feedback stuff, or put them in effect chains and you can do almost ANYTHING with them.

Tell her to look into synths, microkorgs are fucking amazing and the shit you can do with one of those, I mean... Wow.

Seriously, theremins sound cool, but they're about as much fun after 15 minutes as watching rocks slowly erode.[/QUOTE]

Theremins and monotrons have about the same level of practicality

[Asmaedus]

Can anyone point me somewhere that could help me out with regards to songwriting? I've been poking around on my own with no real instruction and everything I 'write' sounds like shit. Song structures are all out of whack, riffs aren't cool at all, things like that.

[Skeeter]

[QUOTE=killerteacup;47415605]Theremins and monotrons have about the same level of practicality[/QUOTE]

You're still missing my point, that practicality comes at 1/10th of the price of a theremine.

[Legion Varus]

[QUOTE=Skeeter;47417074]You're still missing my point, that practicality comes at 1/10th of the price of a theremine.[/QUOTE]

I have a theremine myself and I totally agree with Skeeter. It was expensive and I barely use it ever.

[brooklynlord]

[QUOTE=Asmaedus;47416877]Can anyone point me somewhere that could help me out with regards to songwriting? I've been poking around on my own with no real instruction and everything I 'write' sounds like shit. Song structures are all out of whack, riffs aren't cool at all, things like that.[/QUOTE]

My best advice would be to pick up a harmony textbook at a used books bin, or thrift store, or if a local music school is throwing them out for being out of date. Or maybe you can find some cheap ones on amazon? But be careful because some of them are a bit on the expensive side (60$ apparently, but because you won't need to look too far into one i'd highly recommend getting an old/used one. Harmony by Walter Piston is a good one, and i have a 3rd edition. They're apparently 5$ on Amazon...)

If you don't have much grounding in music theory, then you're going to have to learn some before you go into harmony.

The only problem is that these methods are more 'formal' and lots of people tend to get bored of them (especially music theory), but it helps a lot because it's a common language (apart from recordings).

Composing is usually another layer above harmony: you're going to have to work with rhythms and melodies, which take place over time and not all at once.

For general advice though, make your phrases 4 bars long and always stick to that
Experiment with different notes of the scale (some notes are more powerful than others)
Start with a simple structure like: A>B>A>end, then experiment.
The time at which you place your notes also either emphasizes them or makes them less important. Beats 1 and 3 tend to be emphasized and 2 and 4 sound 'less' (usually), if you're working in 3/4 time it's 1 that's emphasized (usually) and 2 and 3 that sound 'less'.

Chords and stuff... that's all in harmony. I don't know how much you know so it's a bit difficult to help you in exactly one place.

[Number-41]

[QUOTE=Tone Float;47414719]So I have this friend, she's all artsy and psychedelic and counterculture and stuff, she's:
* vegan
* likes Nirvana
* likes Beatles
* likes Bob Marley
* a not-bad painter
* smokes weed, likes LSD, etc etc

But she wants to explore expressing herself with music. She has a ukulele and can play it a little bit, but she's recently put up a crowdfunding thing because she's decided she wants a theremin:

I reaaaaallly think a theremin is a long shot, because #1 it's expensive as hell, while she lives on a pretty small amount of money and #2 it's NOT a very typical musical instrument, eg it doesn't define the notes for you, you have to find them yourself.

I want to help her out without crushing her dreams, and without donating a ludicrous amount of money, so I want to recommend a musical instrument for her to try. What would be good for her? I was thinking a flute or something, 'cause that's a similar airy tone and it does have definitive notes.

I myself play guitar quite well but I understand the basic concepts of theory and of most musical instruments.

[editline]28th March 2015[/editline]

Her boyfriend plays bass guitar, I've never heard him but I'll assume he's not garbage at it.[/QUOTE]

Honestly it comes down to "WOw I heard a theremin and it sounds really cool please buy me one", she should save up and if she can save up $500 and still feels like playing one, then she a) doesn't have to beg for it and b) she's shown she actually wants one.

[editline]29th March 2015[/editline]

I often have that feeling where I hear someone proficient play an instrument and then I want one because I delude myself that I'd have the same proficiency. It's never like that. I got a flute and 1 year later I'm still not where I want to be, learning an instrument takes tenacity and realistic expectations. Getting one with crowd funding is a terrible idea because in the case you go "Meh don't really want one after all" you're wasting [I]other people's[/I] money, which can be avoided by thinking it through while you're saving up...

[Patrick]

[QUOTE=Tone Float;47415323]As I said she's already got a ukulele, and she says she has small hands, I doubt she'd want to upsize to a full guitar[/QUOTE]

I played with a guitarist with tiny baby hands and he shreds.

[Skeeter]

[QUOTE=Asmaedus;47416877]Can anyone point me somewhere that could help me out with regards to songwriting? I've been poking around on my own with no real instruction and everything I 'write' sounds like shit. Song structures are all out of whack, riffs aren't cool at all, things like that.[/QUOTE]

You're at a great place to learn songwriting! A lot of people around here make vastly different music in terms of genre and compositions, all of the tracks rest on one thing though ; Musical theory.
What you're asking for is a very overarching kind of thing, so I think the most important thing is to truly break it down, not only so that you can truly understand what you're about to learn, but also not to swamp yourself and make the whole musicmaking business boring.

First, you could check out this site;
[url]http://www.musictheory.net/[/url]
Just click around, most of the stuff is going to be completely alien to you (most of the theory of it) while some of it is done by ear.
I would recommend checking into this site, it isn't completely necessary right now though, the most important part is to make sure you're having [B]FUN[/B]. Chances are music is just going to be a totally kickass hobby of yours, so just enjoy the ride.

Also, I'd like to add that anyone who says that music theory will curb your creativity is a shitface and shouldn't be listened to, ever.

ANYWAY
Back to that first question of yours, songwriting. Most songs are built out of a few cornerstones, and they're the following:
Intro (The first part of any song, this helps set the overall tone of your track, and gets the listener interested. Chances are most people will skip your track within the first 10 seconds, so make it count!)
Verse (This part is generally a part of the song that helps create movement, usually leads up to...)
Chorus (this is the part that should be the thing people talk about in your song, usually a repetive thing)
Bridge (Much like an actual bridge, the bridge in musical terms is something that connects two parts of a song, like a verse to chorus, or chorus to verse, etc)
Stick (This is a part that might only come once in a song, and helps create excitement in a song.)
Outro (The complete opposite to an intro, this part is usually a chorus, or anything that helps tie the whole track together.)

Most songs will follow a very simple structure, which could be something like this:
Intro / Verse / Bridge / Chorus / Stick / Verse / Bridge / Chorus / Chorus / Outro

The thing with music (and humans in general) is that we really like when shit repeats, this is why we love hearing music over and over again, why we won't mind eating the same old stuff seven days of the week and why habits are hard to break. We like familiarity, and repeating shit is a great way to breed familiarity.

Which leads me to a thing that could help you a lot in songwriting, and that is to analyze the tracks you like. Repeat them, listen, break it down. Listen for small changes, what happens in the second verse, what is different in the second chorus? How do they change things up in the track? I've found that my own songwriting has become a whole lot better by just frequenting this forum in fact, just listening to what other people do, and at times even put my thoughts into words and gave constructive feedback.

You're saying your song structures are all out of whack and that your riffs aren't cool, and why is that? I'm assuming you're new to making music for the sake of simplicity, it isn't a question that only newbies ask however. All the great artists out there get to points in their careers where they hit humps where they feel just the way you do, that their riffs aren't cool or shit like that. Don't be afraid of feeling the way you do, it's 100% natural.

What sort of music have you done so far? Is there anything you've recorded that we could listen to? If you have, then I know I'd love to hear the things you've done and try and use my own personal experience on both songwriting and riffing to help you progress as a musician.

[editline]30th March 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Tone Float;47415323]As I said she's already got a ukulele, and she says she has small hands, I doubt she'd want to upsize to a full guitar

Ehe, no guarantees :p[/QUOTE]

You doubt, BUT what does she say? Guitar is an instrument that can express anything the human behind it wants to express. There are guitars that are short scale that are made for children, like this:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngn-4t7D7Ds[/url]

If she can play ukelele she can play guitar.

[Asmaedus]

[QUOTE=Skeeter;47420097]
What sort of music have you done so far? Is there anything you've recorded that we could listen to? If you have, then I know I'd love to hear the things you've done and try and use my own personal experience on both songwriting and riffing to help you progress as a musician.
[/QUOTE]

I am trying to make very simple black metal, like [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpVH9nVx1hI]this track[/URL], or [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz2qJDn5O5I]this one.[/URL]. [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCZkR8JbZM]Or even this.[/URL]

It seems to be mostly power chords from what I can gather but when i try to recreate it with my own spin I'm just not happy with whatever comes out - it doesn't help that I'm not a very proficient guitar player :v I've only been playing for a few months.

Thanks for your post man, it's helped a lot (brooklynlord too)

[URL=https://mega.co.nz/#!X1oEBLRK!Zcjl-l74Oq6SkmN2H4-NH38h3OvrY9B5Ztg-lzr2otU]I scrapped this song because I wasn't happy with it, (it's not mixed or anything etc, drums are very simple) but this is the closest thing I have to a full song since you asked :^) [/URL]

As an aside if someone could point me to an amp sim that doesn't sound like crap I'd be eternally grateful :)

[MyAlt91]

[QUOTE=Asmaedus;47420954]
As an aside if someone could point me to an amp sim that doesn't sound like crap I'd be eternally grateful :)[/QUOTE]

I just got [URL="http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/rammfire/"]RammFire[/URL] myself, a amp/cabinet sim made in together with one of the guitarists of Rammstein.
Together with my [URL="http://www.spicyguitar.com/"]SpicyGuitar[/URL], I don't see the need to learn how to play guitar myself.
(I can't wrap my head around chords anyway, fingers aren't supposed to do that afaik.)
Of course with a external soundcard you can easily plug in an actual guitar and play with it like that.

For Rammfire you need [URL="http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/guitar-rig-5-player/"]Guitar rig 5 Player[/URL], which is a Free VST, and has some pretty great stuff out of the box.
You won't get all the devices though, you need to buy Guitar Rig 5 for that.

[Skeeter]

Guitar rig is amazing, I stopped using my guitar amp to practice because I could make my guitar sound like it costs $1000 and not $100 that it actually costs

[KmartSqrl]

This kind of thing makes me feel so warm and fuzzy..

[img]http://i.imgur.com/EgkCqU0.png[/img]

(I hope my excitement doesn't come across as bragging. I genuinely hope seeing this kind of thing will motivate some of you all to chase after the music thing harder)

[chaz13]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;47424557]This kind of thing makes me feel so warm and fuzzy..

[img]http://i.imgur.com/EgkCqU0.png[/img]

(I hope my excitement doesn't come across as bragging. I genuinely hope seeing this kind of thing will motivate some of you all to chase after the music thing harder)[/QUOTE]

Please keep sharing! I'm hoping to get a decent EP together this year and it's always great to see others doing well.

[KmartSqrl]

You should man, you've been improving a lot. You could definitely find someone to sign something if you really go at it

[chaz13]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;47424616]You should man, you've been improving a lot. You could definitely find someone to sign something if you really go at it[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I appreciate it. That's the hope!

I went to Noisia Invites over the weekend in Amsterdam, was fucking insane. Spor absolutely smashed it. I was a little disappointed with the noisia set, it was amazing as always of course but I feel like they didn't have the best balance between their new simpler style than their older stuff (although all three of them were present which is unusual!). Phace was amazing as ever also, as was ed rush and posij. Certainly inspiring, I got a lot of ideas at the time but I forgot most of it because I was so.. amsterdam'd :v:

[KmartSqrl]

[QUOTE=chaz13;47424958]Thanks! I appreciate it. That's the hope!

I went to Noisia Invites over the weekend in Amsterdam, was fucking insane. Spor absolutely smashed it. I was a little disappointed with the noisia set, it was amazing as always of course but I feel like they didn't have the best balance between their new simpler style than their older stuff (although all three of them were present which is unusual!). Phace was amazing as ever also, as was ed rush and posij. Certainly inspiring, I got a lot of ideas at the time but I forgot most of it because I was so.. amsterdam'd :v:[/QUOTE]

Really wish I wasn't stateside whenever I see insane lineups like that haha :( Melkweg is an [B]awesome[/B] club too

[Skeeter]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;47424557]This kind of thing makes me feel so warm and fuzzy..

[img]http://i.imgur.com/EgkCqU0.png[/img]

(I hope my excitement doesn't come across as bragging. I genuinely hope seeing this kind of thing will motivate some of you all to chase after the music thing harder)[/QUOTE]

Dude, fuck the haters and brag all you like

[chaz13]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;47425397]Really wish I wasn't stateside whenever I see insane lineups like that haha :( Melkweg is an [B]awesome[/B] club too[/QUOTE]

We should have a musician's gig room to noisia invites at some point :v: Melkweg was fantastic, loved the setup of it and the smoking room was insane.

Started a new track today! Take a wild guess at the genre. Still in a basic state but I'm pretty happy so far.

[media]http://soundcloud.com/awesomesaucee/teaser[/media]

[QUOTE=Warship;47412703]Very nice, I like the general tone of these. The second track is well done with its change in mood I think, and it kind of reminds me of the Portal 2 soundtrack in the beginning.

Yesterday, I had the itch for some music making since I had not done anything for a while. I sat down and made this in a pretty short amount of time:

[media]http://soundcloud.com/thedanielholt/42a[/media][/QUOTE]

Very chill, like the side chaining from the kick drum. The hats that come in are cool but I think it'd be better if they were pushed further back in the mix with wetter reverb.

[Timo★]

[QUOTE=chaz13;47426447]
Started a new track today! Take a wild guess at the genre. Still in a basic state but I'm pretty happy so far.

[URL="http://facepunch.com/"]Listen to Soundcloud recording[/URL]

[URL]http://soundcloud.com/awesomesaucee/teaser[/URL]

[/QUOTE]The cinematic drum thing is fun, I'm really not sure about bringing the main kick & snare into the intro, the drop could have more impact if you thought of something else instead of it or just filtered them?

[editline]31st March 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Warship;47412703]
Yesterday, I had the itch for some music making since I had not done anything for a while. I sat down and made this in a pretty short amount of time:

[media]http://soundcloud.com/thedanielholt/42a[/media][/QUOTE]Moody, a bit barebones (or just minimalistic?). Sidechain fits good here. I like the bitcrush on the main synth.

[editline]31st March 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=wauterboi;47378844]You should get hands on with something very mainstream with tons of tutorials. For that reason, I'd recommend FL studio just for starting out, and then moving to Reaper, which is extremely barebones and matches your workflow the way you want it.

I'm stressed for a test, so I'm working on music:

[media]http://soundcloud.com/wauterboi/lost-in-you-wip-32315[/media][/QUOTE]This is dope, I like the change in drums and mood. Also really neat synths

[editline]31st March 2015[/editline]

I'll get to other stuff on last page later, tired atm so I'm dropping these here:

Videogamey, I tried making a track that would fit in the background of a visual novel or something:
[media]http://soundcloud.com/timopy/take-a-walk[/media]

Not really sure what to make of this one but I really like the mood.. just not sure what else there is to this:
[media]http://soundcloud.com/timopy/to-be-continued[/media]

For extra a short clip I made from a donkey kong country corrupted soundtrack:
[media]http://soundcloud.com/timopy/donkey-kong-got-fucked-in-the-asshole[/media]

[Tone Float]

[QUOTE=Skeeter;47420097]You doubt, BUT what does she say? Guitar is an instrument that can express anything the human behind it wants to express. There are guitars that are short scale that are made for children, like this:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngn-4t7D7Ds[/url]

If she can play ukelele she can play guitar.[/QUOTE]

Really, that's pretty much exactly what she said. I could have worded it such that it better conveyed that it was her words. Eh.

I offered her a guitar, keyboard, harmonica(s), or ukulele to borrow to explore her bounds and she refused. Whatever. Maybe it's a lost cause.

[KmartSqrl]

Good god every time I'm excited about something something else dope happens.. Mat the alien just hit me up looking for tunes to play out this summer haha

[Warship]

[QUOTE=chaz13;47426447]

Very chill, like the side chaining from the kick drum. The hats that come in are cool but I think it'd be better if they were pushed further back in the mix with wetter reverb.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, you're right about the hats. And yeah, I was pretty satisfied with how well the sidechain compression worked.

[editline]31st March 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=CLungcancer;47426489]
Moody, a bit barebones (or just minimalistic?). Sidechain fits good here. I like the bitcrush on the main synth.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, you have a good ear, I like bitcrushing when it's subtle like I would argue it is in my track.

[chaz13]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;47426893]Good god every time I'm excited about something something else dope happens.. Mat the alien just hit me up looking for tunes to play out this summer haha[/QUOTE]

Amazing!

Trying to come up with a not too cringey, more serious artist name I can release an EP under when the time comes, please vote:

Agree - Prizm
Artistic - Pryzm
Funny - Prizym
Tool - Palendrome

[MyAlt91]

A little something for my fellow facepunch musicians;

Me and my friends from Majestic Entertainment have recently released a [B]free sample pack[/B] for all to use!
There's just under a hundred samples to use, from kicks / snares, to vocals.

[B]Find the pack [URL="http://majestic-entertainment.net/wordpress/downloads-2/"]here![/URL][/B]
Theres a demo track on the same page if you need convincing.

Happy sampling!