The Musician's Gig Room Chat V1 - Songwriting and Sound Design for all! - Creationism Corner

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;51163005]Igorrr without the wackiness. Noice. Absolutely splendid amen programming. The break in the middle is really nice, I would be cool if you could possibly incorporate that chord progression more in the rest of the piece. My biggest gripe is with the intro. The drone and granular amen bassline is nice, but I think the foreshadowing and buildup element is lacking a bit, particularily in the first 30 seconds. The scream that occurs before shit kicks into high gear at the minute mark could be a bit more prominent, or have some kind of transformation into a louder noise element just before the amens kick in. Otherwise, phenomenal track. Usually I would leave a track here but I got nothing right now. I just wanted to take the opportunity to review some breakcore. And I thought it was relevant enough since I'm working on a jungle track with contemporary DnB and breakcore influences.[/QUOTE] Thank youuuuu <3

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51163413]This sound font is fucking immaculate, do you cut your own samples or what? [media] [url]https://soundcloud.com/morepartyhats/rap-practice-on-some-dank-ass-gorillaz-beatz[/url][/media] Love this track, just kind of decided I needed to practice spitting bars.[/QUOTE] Going to focus on the vocals because someone else can comment on the beat, and frankly I'm kind of tired of talking about rap beats right now. :v: There is too much room in your vocals. Invest in some kind of treatment, whether it be something as simple as recording in a closet with tons of towels covering everything in the room, buying [url=http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReflexionX]one of these[/url], or even fully treating your room. Without any type of treatment your raps will always sound amateur, no matter how good the lyrical content or the beat. [QUOTE=SIRIUS;51163616]Cc?[/QUOTE] Your low-end is really muddy. Do not have instruments fight for frequency space, especially down there. Also tune your kick and your bass line so they do not conflict either, will really help make those two sounds stand out more. Also your transitions are pretty much non-existent. Try helping the listener by foreshadowing events. Even just doing something as simple as a white noise riser will help immensely. Also your synth sounds really dull. Add some reverb or something to liven it up. You have this ethereal piano underneath everything but then you pile on stale sounds. It's kind of jarring. I kind of sound bitchy in both of these comments. Not meant to be at all!! Just not really feeling colorful language today.

Beats just straight up rhinestone eyes by gorillaz, usually if I've got beat block I just take a dank instrumental and spit a verse over it, just to get it out there. Room wise, yeah I'm recording off a blue yeti with its notoriously full sounding recordings, I keep my headphones running through it and I can hear people pull into my driveway over it haha

[QUOTE=splenda;51163830]Going to focus on the vocals because someone else can comment on the beat, and frankly I'm kind of tired of talking about rap beats right now. :v: There is too much room in your vocals. Invest in some kind of treatment, whether it be something as simple as recording in a closet with tons of towels covering everything in the room, buying [url=http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReflexionX]one of these[/url], or even fully treating your room. Without any type of treatment your raps will always sound amateur, no matter how good the lyrical content or the beat. Your low-end is really muddy. Do not have instruments fight for frequency space, especially down there. [B]Also tune your kick and your bass line[/B] so they do not conflict either, will really help make those two sounds stand out more. Also your transitions are pretty much non-existent. Try helping the listener by foreshadowing events. Even just doing something as simple as a white noise riser will help immensely. [B]Also your synth sounds really dull[/B]. Add some reverb or something to liven it up. You have this ethereal piano underneath everything but then you pile on stale sounds. It's kind of jarring. I kind of sound bitchy in both of these comments. Not meant to be at all!! Just not really feeling colorful language today.[/QUOTE] 1. how do i do that? 2. how are they dull?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51164406]1. how do i do that? 2. how are they dull?[/QUOTE] 1. [url=http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mix-tips-kick-bass]Here[/url] [url=https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/2-simple-tricks-to-fit-the-kick-and-bass-together--audio-11557]are[/url] [url=https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/1211]some[/url] [url=http://ledgernote.com/columns/mixing-mastering/mixing-bass-and-kick-for-low-end-balance/]guides[/url] 2. By dull I mean lifeless and kind of clashing with the groove/feeling you create at the start of the song. You have this nice moving piano sound, with some shiny top end and delay and stuff, but then you bring in these static synth/other piano sounds. They do not move like the piano does. Try adding some delay/reverb/effect modulation (so like chorus or whatever) or even just slow LFOs on a parameter or two of the synths. All of these can be really overdone, but subtly these techniques can allow for a song that sounds more complete. A nice option is to just push whatever reverb and/or delay you have on your starting piano line to a send/insert channel, and let a little bit of each of your melodic sounds through into them. Like the sounds on their own are fine, there is just no "glue" that tells me that it is a complete work rather than just a bunch of ideas on top of each other if you get what I mean.

Totally, thanks! I'm still getting used to making a complete song and a complete idea

[img]http://puu.sh/rBhoS/d861c0b247.PNG[/img] Pretty much sums up computer music/music technology grad school assignments in one picture.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51163413]This sound font is fucking immaculate, do you cut your own samples or what?[/QUOTE] Thanks, you're referring to the drums, right? I have a huge library of drum samples and when I make a track I handpick every sound individually. I never use drum kits.

[QUOTE=Warship;51169142]Thanks, you're referring to the drums, right? I have a huge library of drum samples and when I make a track I handpick every sound individually. I never use drum kits.[/QUOTE] where'd you get them?

[QUOTE=Warship;51169142]Thanks, you're referring to the drums, right? I have a huge library of drum samples and when I make a track I handpick every sound individually. I never use drum kits.[/QUOTE] [editline]8th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Warship;51169142]Thanks, you're referring to the drums, right? I have a huge library of drum samples and when I make a track I handpick every sound individually. I never use drum kits.[/QUOTE] That's awesome dude, I try to do the same but clearly you've got a better ear for it. Depending on the size it might be unfeasible but any chance we could get a link to your samples?

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51169889] That's awesome dude, I try to do the same but clearly you've got a better ear for it. Depending on the size it might be unfeasible but any chance we could get a link to your samples?[/QUOTE] I know this is kind of a tangent, not really, but you guys should experiment with synthesizing your own drum sounds. It's a lot easier than it seems, for example, you can make a pretty convincing kick out of just a sinewave with a short pitch envelope, and it allows you to always have whatever sound you want. While samples can be good, you always have to compromise somewhere with them, since they were probably made for a different song in mind than the one you are currently working on. Also another really nice tip is to just record stupid shit on your phone or whatever. It's so easy to chop up and mangle sounds today that you can pretty much turn any sound into whatever you want. See a cool pipe on your walk home? Hit it with anything and record the sound!! Could become a nice cowbell or cymbal. Layering acoustic stuff with electronically generated material can really give a sense of life to your sounds. It is a lot harder to distinguish yourself from the rest of the ocean of bedroom producers if you are all using vengeance pack snare #584 too. If instead you make a snare out of your favorite synth + the sound of you rustling some leaves or something, then you will have carved out your own sonic footprint and be much more memorable to your listeners. This isn't to say samples are bad, I for one am glad that I do not need to spend +$3,000 to use an 808 for example, but it's more to remind you that there are other options out there. Then again, after looking at the prices of some of these sample packs, maybe it is just better to buy a [url=http://mfberlin.de/en/device/tanzbar_en/]tanzbar[/url] or [url=https://www.arturia.com/products/drumbrute/overview]that fancy new arturia drum machine announced today[/url] and just take faster road to unique drum sounds.

I'd love to do that, I just don't have a real practical understanding of raw audio frequencies and shit. Any chance you have some reference materials on the subject? A good tut series maybe? I'm still very much a beginner when it comes to production so really anything you think can help to gain an ear for it

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51170066]I'd love to do that, I just don't have a real practical understanding of raw audio frequencies and shit. Any chance you have some reference materials on the subject? A good tut series maybe? I'm still very much a beginner when it comes to production so really anything you think can help to gain an ear for it[/QUOTE] I don't know how math-y you are, but Sound on Sound did a whole series of [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160403115835/http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm]"synth secrets"[/url] a long time ago. Kind of falls more under "theory" but I have heard it is a really good series. There is a few parts on drum synthesis too, but they seem to take a physical modeling approach rather than a subtractive synthesis approach. Attack Magazine published an [url=http://www.attackmagazine.com/technique/tutorials/drum-synthesis-in-logic-es2/]article on drum synthesis[/url] but personally I find the sounds made kind of lackluster. Might help you start out though if you are totally clueless. Someone on Reddit made a [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/1qbt1g/synthesize_your_own_drums_today/]tutorial[/url] that seems alright too, but only goes into the kick, snare, and hi hats. There is also this pretty good [url=http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmodularbook/nm_percussion.html]tutorial[/url] made for the Nord Modular synth, but depending on your experience with synthesizers the images given as examples might be a little intimidating/hard to read. Moog made a [url=https://www.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/webroot/imgs/Synthesized_Percussion_Guide.pdf]guide[/url] for the Sub Phatty that seems like it will give good sounds, but then again that is probably to do with the fact it is a Moog. Is easier to read then the Nord Modular one since the Sub Phatty has a classical synthesizer layout. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrpr0ohAWxI]They even have a nice video on it![/url] Since you use Ableton this [url=http://abletonlife.com/learning-drum-synthesis-with-abletons-operator]guide[/url] might be the most immediately helpful since it shows how to synthesize drums in operator. These will all act as a nice starting point to the world of drum synthesis. If you want a nice series on the basics of synthesis I recommend this [url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AutomaticGainsay]youtube channel.[/url] Might seem a little weird because he covers mostly vintage analog synths, but at the same time he breaks down synthesis in all of his series pretty much, and since software is always trying to emulate hardware in both sound and look, the knowledge you can gain from these videos can be directly applied to your favorite vst or whatever. Honestly I have always hunted for a "definitive" book I can recommend to people for learning synthesis but for some reason all of the good ones have seemed to disappear off the earth, or are too far from modern architecture that they would just confuse beginners. Probably the best advice is to just go through your favorite presets and study the placement of all the knobs. Screenshot the "panel" of the synth and then in a new, initialized instance, remake that sound exactly, playing a few notes every step of the way. This way you can follow how your rather boring starting tone becomes something much more pleasing by the end. Youtube tutorials vary in effectiveness so I would go into all of those "learn how to make x's signature sound" videos carefully, since many of the ones I have seen just overcomplicate stuff. I guess I'll blindly piggyback off of this [url=https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/405559-synthesis-tips-tutorials-how-create-your-own-patches.html]GearSlutz thread[/url] on the topic. Just think twice about reading the buchla or serge manuals unless you want to join the west coast and make weird sounds half of the world wouldn't even call music (always good to get another follower in our little cult!) :v: [editline]8th October 2016[/editline] Actually now that I think about it, the best way to learn synthesis is to experiment. If you can, go out and get a synth with no menu diving, no presets, covered in knobs, etc and just play with it for a few hours a day. Turn every knob, flick every switch, just hear what stuff does. Synths like the microbrute or the volca bass are pretty cheap ways of accomplishing this, and both sound pretty nice. Synths were made to be twiddled with, not to flick through premade sounds!! Ignorance breeds freedom when it comes to synthesis pretty much.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51169782]where'd you get them?[/QUOTE] Free downloads and eBay, of all places. I just got sent 50Gigs worth of samples on DVDs. [QUOTE=No Party Hats;51169889] That's awesome dude, I try to do the same but clearly you've got a better ear for it. Depending on the size it might be unfeasible but any chance we could get a link to your samples?[/QUOTE] Most of the stuff I have I don't even know where comes from, so I don't know if I'd be in my legal right to do so :v: And it's almost 55GB.

Oh damn that's pretty sweet, might be worth buying something like that just to have some good samples to work with!

[QUOTE=Warship;51170428]Free downloads and eBay, of all places. I just got sent 50Gigs worth of samples on DVDs. Most of the stuff I have I don't even know where comes from, so I don't know if I'd be in my legal right to do so :v: And it's almost 55GB.[/QUOTE] Even the free stuff

I guess I could put together a sample pack for you guys when I get the time

[QUOTE=Warship;51170805]I guess I could put together a sample pack for you guys when I get the time[/QUOTE] Ehhh that might be pushing it into the warez category since those packs are always very blatent about not allowing you to repackage the samples, even if the pack was free. Probably the best thing you can do is just screenshot your sample library folder so people can see the names of the packs and find them on their own, that is unless you organize your samples differently.

I've been re-acquainting myself with Ableton after not using it since early this year. It seems that a lot of the built in instruments only allow for one "layer" of notes to be played by my Electric Keyboard. This seems like it'll be annoying for recording, as I'll have to pull apart chords and play the notes individually. Is there a simple fix that I'm not aware of, or is this just an unfortunate side of certain instruments? Also, I've been trying to find a pipe-organ instrument online, but no luck yet. I'm trying to get that classic horror movie, cathedral sound. Any suggestions?

[QUOTE=4yourmalice;51171706]I've been re-acquainting myself with Ableton after not using it since early this year. It seems that a lot of the built in instruments only allow for one "layer" of notes to be played by my Electric Keyboard. This seems like it'll be annoying for recording, as I'll have to pull apart chords and play the notes individually. Is there a simple fix that I'm not aware of, or is this just an unfortunate side of certain instruments? Also, I've been trying to find a pipe-organ instrument online, but no luck yet. I'm trying to get that classic horror movie, cathedral sound. Any suggestions?[/QUOTE] Every instrument in Ableton's suite offering can go up to at least 20 note polyphony, so you can play 20 notes at once. Check to make sure the "voices" parameter is set to something other than mono if you want to play chords. Should be under the volume subsection of the instruments, so just click next to the volume knob or whatever, if not displayed immediately. If you really want a pipe organ sound you can always turn to kontakt packs for them. [url=https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/toccata/]Here are[/url] [url=https://soundiron.com/products/lakeside-pipe-organ]a couple.[/url] Probably not the most economically sound way of doing it since you need the full version of kontakt to even run these packs. If you just want to make a loose representation of a pipe organ through synthesis, just stack a bunch of saw waves tuned at octaves of each other. Experimenting with running certain oscillators through filters and not others will result in a pretty convincing organ sound.

[QUOTE=splenda;51171850]Every instrument in Ableton's suite offering can go up to at least 20 note polyphony, so you can play 20 notes at once. Check to make sure the "voices" parameter is set to something other than mono if you want to play chords. Should be under the volume subsection of the instruments, so just click next to the volume knob or whatever, if not displayed immediately. If you really want a pipe organ sound you can always turn to kontakt packs for them. [url=https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/toccata/]Here are[/url] [url=https://soundiron.com/products/lakeside-pipe-organ]a couple.[/url] Probably not the most economically sound way of doing it since you need the full version of kontakt to even run these packs. If you just want to make a loose representation of a pipe organ through synthesis, just stack a bunch of saw waves tuned at octaves of each other. Experimenting with running certain oscillators through filters and not others will result in a pretty convincing organ sound.[/QUOTE] I appreciate the info, man. I'll try stacking those instruments and playing around until I find the sound I'm going for.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51159752] Here's an actual thing i decided is done: [video]https://youtu.be/dFG1ErcY9gQ[/video][/QUOTE] Pretty sweet energetic track, I really like the floppy drive-sounding synth that starts at 1:10. Clean drums. Personally I would probably give the piano a bit more high-end, and the chords are a bit generic (But that could be said for a lot of good songs). I'm trying out some new things with this one. It's my first track with a 3/4 time signature, and I don't think I've ever used the beat repeat device before. And I went out today and got some rain sounds which I think really adds an extra layer to the atmosphere. Here it is. [media]https://soundcloud.com/thedanielholt/why-not-me[/media]

[QUOTE=Warship;51182713]Pretty sweet energetic track, I really like the floppy drive-sounding synth that starts at 1:10. Clean drums. Personally I would probably give the piano a bit more high-end, and the chords are a bit generic (But that could be said for a lot of good songs). I'm trying out some new things with this one. It's my first track with a 3/4 time signature, and I don't think I've ever used the beat repeat device before. And I went out today and got some rain sounds which I think really adds an extra layer to the atmosphere. Here it is. [media]https://soundcloud.com/thedanielholt/why-not-me[/media][/QUOTE] This is pretty good! Loving the use of real world sounds and the not-as-standard time signature. The song gets kind of stale after the first interlude, the first rain break. The beat repeat thing is nice, but I feel like you should add something into that part to keep the song feeling fresh. Another thing, you might want to check your low-end levels. Listening to this on shitty headphones at the moment, so I might be totally wrong, but it feels like there is a bit too much energy down there. You want your song's spectrum to be more or less even throughout the full range of frequencies basically. Finally some advice, maybe you should add some reverb to some of the percussion. You got this dreamy feel going, but then the clap kind of brings it back to the real world in a kind of random way if you get what I mean. Something cool might be a [url=https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~dattorro/EffectDesignPart1.pdf]tuned reverb[/url] whose tail key/pitch shift changes each time the clap is hit, but then again this would be kind of tedious to do with non modular designed software. Also you might want to add in some more ambient sounds, or maybe to a more "noisy" rain tracking (like record the rain from a porch with some glass bottles or something catching the drops periodically. One of my favorite things to do is go to a park or busy area of people, but not cars, and record the sounds I hear. Undiscernable human speech is a pretty cool thing, since your brain will really want to try to pick out snippets of words from the mess, and at the same time you might pick up other weird noises of stuff happening that you can then just sample out and use later on. Not a major thing by any stretch of the word, but more of I use way too many field recordings in my electronic tracks and am pushing my own workflow on to you. :v:

Thanks dood. About the low-end, I kind of suspected it; I couldn't quite get it right. I've only balanced it between a set of B&W 683 speakers and my Sennheiser HD 419 headphones which are kinda tricky to master on...

[QUOTE=Warship;51184468]Thanks dood. About the low-end, I kind of suspected it; I couldn't quite get it right. I've only balanced it between a set of B&W 683 speakers and my Sennheiser HD 419 headphones which are kinda tricky to master on...[/QUOTE] For the level most people/if not everyone in this thread are mastering at, probably the best advice I can give is just to load up a track you think really sounds good in terms of its mixing/mastering job, and directly compare it to your own. (*This next part is not advice you want to live by but more of a last ditch effort*) Even try opening some analyzing plugins, [url=https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=380389]a nice, free one if you do not have one already,[/url] and directly compare the graphs. Like notice how hard their kick is hitting the low-end of the mix, or how their kick and bass parts coexist in the same frequency space. It's really not a good idea to live by the graphs, but as a learning tool I feel like graphs and numbers can really show you what your current speakers cannot reproduce well. But just remember, every song has a different feel so you do not want to be worried about minute differences in how the songs look, but more of how the songs sound. Best way to put it, pretend you are in a club/listening to the radio and the DJ plays that really well mastered song and then plays your current song. Does your song compete in its fidelity, or does it sound really dark and muddy? I'll make a huge, "practical guide to mastering" later on, too busy today to write it, but just take this as an appetizer. Mastering is an art, and just like learning how to play an instrument, you only get better at it if you practice.

I use this free plug-in to monitor my track's dynamics and where the frequencies are laid out: [url]http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/[/url] I think I've gotten the dynamics part of mastering down pretty well. But as you say, mastering is an art and something you just have to practice.

Dang Splenda, can I ask what background/experience you have in this area? You're giving tons of great advice and I'm finding it great just to read through all the feedback you give!

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51185147]Dang Splenda, can I ask what background/experience you have in this area? You're giving tons of great advice and I'm finding it great just to read through all the feedback you give![/QUOTE] Of course! I have been making music ever since I was a toddler, from frantically pounding my hands on my dad's synths to forcing my grandmother to take me to the local music store so I could play their drum set. While most kids are given a toy xylophone as a toddler in the vain hope it will somehow improve their motor skills, and then stop playing it once they find the next cool thing to do, I just kind of always stuck with instruments. When my dad purchased one of the very early editions of Ableton Live, I forget which one but I still have the disk somewhere, I became hooked on the idea that I could record my keyboard bashings and then put them on CDs to listen to in my room. So that kind of started my learning process of music stuff. All I wanted to do as a child is read about music techniques, or just make songs, and I can still trace all my current and past interests back their roots in music. When I was around 12 I founded a weirdly successful DIY punk band, like successful in terms of playing shows at real venues, not like monetarily successful, so every show I would always want the sound guy or the techs of the other bands, usually just the other band's members, to tell me what they do and stuff. Since I was still a little kid, the people were more than happy to explain to me how live mixes work, how materials of the room affect the resulting sound, etc. Then at around 14 I somehow was able to help out at a studio one summer. This really opened my eyes to the high end of music recording, from getting to listen to +$4,000 mics going through a $250,000 console to even at one point being allowed to cut the 2" tape being used to track this one session. Again, since I was so fascinated in all of this, everyone was eager to let me handle the controls, to an extent, and really learn the ropes of production/mastering. Through high school my passion only grew. I began to learn how to make my own instruments, mostly using programs like [url=https://cycling74.com/products/max/]Max/MSP[/url], and to a lesser extent, [url=https://puredata.info/]pd~[/url], and just generally learning more about the science behind the art. Like when I was in 6th grade or so my dad bought me a book on the mathematical properties of music, but since it was all calculus and stuff I really did not understand it but made it my goal to look up how to do some of the stuff the book talked about. At the time, since I was 12, it went about as well as you would expect, but once I got into my later teens and knew more math I could really understand what I was reading. Probably explains why I'm so good at math now!! Currently I'm studying CogSci in college, with a focus in auditory perception, but have also been given the opportunity to take some classes at my university's new music grad school. Still just as enthusiastic about music as I was as a toddler!! I love giving advice because I always remember how hard it was for me to learn how to do anything in music production. Since stuff like soundcloud didn't exist, and it would probably not go over well if a small child posted on internet forums, I never really had the opportunity to ask people other than my dad for feedback on my mixes or whatever. Literally still have my old magazines that I would make scanned copies of and highlight particular parts of like "How to make your kick sit in the mix" or "how to properly eq a guitar" because those were pretty much my only resources for new tips. For example, it took me years to be able to make a sound I had in my head on a synthesizer, while now I can just google "synthesis techniques" and be buried in pages of well written, free sources on how to make any sound I want. I still have a copy of the first "album" I ever made, and every few years I put it back on to see how far I have gone. It's pretty humbling tbh. If any of you are ever in a creative rut or anything, it is really good to go back to your first couple songs, since even though they might not be good, they always scream enthusiasm in a really genuine way. This whole thing makes me feel really old even though I'm 20. :v: Guess it's just kind of weird to have seen something everyone always thought was kind of strange about me turn into a hugely saturated market of everyone having a copy of fl studio, ableton, or logic on their laptops. While many old producers complain about this, I think it is amazing to see others get so into something I care so much about. (Although I don't think I will ever understand the sex appeal of someone who sits in front of their computer all day and night replaying the same 4 bar loop meticulously trying to figure out when that 3.5k Hz spike is coming from in their song.) Also as a side note, since I'm on the topic of me, sorry for never posting really any of my music here. Everything I have been making lately has been for semi-commercial release or whatever so I don't really think I can post it. Been meaning to make more music for no purpose other than pleasure though, so I'll try to contribute to the thread in a way other than walls of text eventually! It's always felt a little silly always commenting on other's music but never giving the opportunity for all of you to comment on my own work.

That is quite a background you have there, and you're just 20. I wish I had as much experience with equipment and producing, but all my experience boils down to is having played piano since I was a kid and eventually started playing around with FL Studio in my early teens, never really thinking it would go anywhere until I started listening more to electronic music and realized it's what I wanna do. I am 20 aswell!

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;51185580]That is quite a background you have there, and you're just 20. I wish I had as much experience with equipment and producing, but all my experience boils down to is having played piano since I was a kid and eventually started playing around with FL Studio in my early teens, never really thinking it would go anywhere until I started listening more to electronic music and realized it's what I wanna do. I am 20 aswell![/QUOTE] The post was getting a bit long but I was going to add a paragraph about how important it is to not think that because you didn't start making music at age zero that you will never get anywhere. As long as you have the flame lit, and really strive to better yourself, you will become a fantastic producer/engineer/musician/whatever in no time!! The main mistake I see people make when starting out in music is that they expect to be able to make #1 beatport tier songs a week after they pirate their copy of Ableton or whatever. All this mindset will breed is carelessness and resentment, two things that really do not make a good track. Only if you have a will to learn, the ability to turn off your ego in times of criticism, and put in the time sacrifices can you ever make a track that has potential. In terms of the equipment part, as long as you have a computer you can pretty much learn how to use any piece of outboard gear. Plugins have gotten really, really good over the past couple years, like to the point where I cannot tell the difference between the real thing and the virtual one even in a soloed test, so you can theoretically have a multi million dollar studio for just a few thousand dollars. While outboard gear is all shiny and carries dickwaving power, it is by no means essential. Really the only thing I suggest for everyone in this thread is to get at least one knob encrusted synth. Not even for the sound, but just for the fact that you can just sit on the couch and create music away from a screen. Also it makes it so much easier to go out and jam with friends in a park or whatever, and music is always more fun in groups!! Like I always keep a bunch of little toy-like synths in my backpack, stuff like a korg volca or two, a little recorder, or one of those cute teenage engineering pocket operators, actually just impulsively bought [url=http://www.bastl-instruments.com/instruments/kastle/kastle-synth/]this little cutey[/url], just in case I ever get bored waiting for the bus or whatever. Also cheap stuff like the volca bass, the microbrute, and the volca FM sound really good, so you can definitely use them in your songs and they will not sound lofi at all, unless of course you want that lofi sound (who doesn't)!!