The Official Facepunch Mapping WiP Thread v18: Source Engine and Friends - Developers

Especially since some of those room shots are of fully completed areas, and the main level is incomplete. That's how I am doing it... it makes the work go by a lot faster to not have to go back over an entire map, it's much easier to do like 1 floor at a time all the way to full completion... all I should have to do at the end is generate cube maps then release it. The main area I am saving for last.

Add some details, like pipes, Electric boxes etc.

It's hard to see do to the resolution, but I have electric boxes and few pipes down the main hallways, I can always add more, but I don't want to go crazy until I am mostly finished lol, I am already hitting 23% on my entity data limit, probably due to decals and info_nodes.

Ok, so make some advanced shapes with brushes (blocks, archs, cylinders etc). Dont forget to turn it into func_detail

I took your suggestions seriously... this what my other hallway looks like, it's not the one I showed. It looked the same, just more bland. Now it looks like this, in full res this time: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/7a645342-3ca6-4353-afd3-0b41375e19c0/20180711140321_1.jpg https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/503c5050-c590-4245-9937-3a9899051c79/20180711140258_1.jpg https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/c055f92a-f293-4ebe-8c37-45efb1111d63/20180711140335_1.jpg

you should add a tint of yellow/orange to your lights to match your fluorescent light model more. purely white lights often come off super harsh and bland id also try and break up your walls and floor more, add grates to the floor, maybe some sort of colored trim for the walls, industrial fans behind square grates that are set into the ceiling or walls, etc. not a bad start though

Much better ! And now add some stain decals/overlays to your pipes and other details.

I will definitely consider the grates and colored trim, but do to the level design it would be a 'grate' deal of reworking. As far as the lights go, you were absolutely right. This what it did to the overall look: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/946af38b-67cd-4b88-a2e6-4fa2058995a6/20180711151807_1.jpg Trust me, it's on my to-do list. Now, as a demonstration from the feed back... All of you have raised my standards, here is a reworked generator room. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/95ff23c9-bd53-405c-bf97-dced61609564/oldNew.png The added support structures and variation of lights make it a lot better for the eyes.

Yeah. Reminds me of an early version of Kleiner's lab now.

I agree ! And i remembered: Add dustmotes. Like here - (Look more closely, its a fault of the screenshot, in-game it would look much better) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1274349248

well, I used a func_dustmote.... I have' actually never bothered before so I am unfamiliar with it. All I found was a few quick tutorials and the valve wiki recommended not to have it any bigger then 100 inches. Here is how it appears. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/c7a40574-389a-4972-82f4-3a57b1a416a3/20180712101201_1.jpg I think, its high time I go deep into lighting, I think this video is gonna set me strait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hILEwPBqggg

Ah ha! I knew it! I was doing it wrong this whole time, there was a bit more to lighting then what I had remembered. I am so used to Creation Kit, I just assumed light was supposed to look kind of bland in the old source engine... Now the light looks like this! https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/35c3d2b3-5016-4bd6-b33e-fb06080bbb54/20180712111800_1.jpg

The misaligned brick texture is really not so good. IIRC, a few of the HL2 stock textures are like that even if according to the numbers in Hammer they are aligned. Nobody would build their brick wall like that. If you can make the seams line up with the floor and ceiling, it'll look better imho. Also, the tiling on the floor is curiously fine-grained. If I had to cover such a large floor area IRL, I'd use tiles that are larger and brighter. Ant on top of that, there could be trim lines at the sides breaking up the visuals even further to make them more interesting. It could be aligned brick wall -> trim line on the floor (that also follows the column outlines) -> bigger and more bright tiles. The black outlines on the lamps are a visual problem, and the lamps themselves illuminate the space directly on the ceiling too much. If you've only used one light here per lamp so far, a solution could be to make it a little darker and add another light with a greater falloff radius to simulate the light bounce. The arches are a good start, but would you really build columns out of bricks IRL? They could be made of another concrete structure. As for the arches themselves, I know them as being quite boxy from the office building I work in. And a boxy arch is a good canvas for putting up signs. Hm... maybe raise the ceiling a little too. If this was a public space, you'd normally have a hard time reaching for the ceiling by hand, and there would be some air ducts and the like. The dirt and stuff to perturb the visuals is already good. The pipe in the background is too vertically centered. Populating the world with "visual dirt" to make it look realistic will be a huge topic for my level generation efforts too. Oh, you could also age the lamps a little, by making them have different levels of brightness. They don't need to flicker, but the lighting is as perfectly set up as if that hallway was just built yesterday. :) I like where it's all going. The little tiles fit well in the generator area. Can you rotate the puddle decals somehow so that their outlines don't all point in the same direction? A floor trim would fit really well here.

A tip for lighting, always make the light bright, and never use white. (for normal scenes) (heh the rhyme) Also working on a big terrain map, because I like terrain. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/964217986225467363/2911B6D5116D93A93C8789539E5D63B2BA32482A/ https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/964217986225472978/CCE65ACF471011C48BA3258C475B8EFE4391E8A8/

Ah yes, I processed all the advice from recent feed back and now my hallway looks like this: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/6b977942-86fb-44f3-8a07-f205eeef757f/20180713195327_1.jpg Here is what I changed: More decals Wall trim moved that pipe down a little made the floor tiles larger made fluorescent lights cast a shadow behind them varied the brightness between lights (might be visually hard to see unless you actually explore the level) Now it's starting to look fairly impressive, no thanks to you guys. What I did about the florescent lights was move the "light" entities further away, and then I added a small "Block Light" texture box between the model and the light. The shadows could be smoother but due to the sheer size and design of the level it absolutely can't handle anything less then 16... VRAD usually just dies. It does compile optimally though the way I have my light map set up currently. I am also putting more thought into my texture management. I even moved around the new floor tiles to have as even cuts as possible, as long as you allign the tile to fit one corner it's not unrealistic to have the tiles cut, I will favor door alignment when transitioning between floors.

I've been working on this map sense February here is a screenshot i took in game.. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/256233/3e1e49dc-70d0-4fb4-a886-c33dd8b8fe4e/rp_sapphire_ridge_v13a0005.jpg

Any advice for the best method for large, natural terrain like this?

The best method that I'm aware of currently, although someone may of found a better way, is how Briscoe built the terrain for Dear Esther https://www.littlelostpoly.com/terrain-vs-source/

This is a small thing but have a go at adding a frame for doors (like for those sliding ones), it's a good way to add detail and looks really nice if the right textures are used. This tutorial shows how to do a basic one. Just keep trying to add random details, even ones that may seem minor can make a difference. I also like to place down models and decals even if they don't fit at all, it can help to give me ideas for what would fit. You are showing that you're listening to the feedback though which is great!

Remember the 4 D's of interesting corridors: Depth, Damage, Dynamic effects, and Detail. Depth is the process of breaking the silhouette of the brushes that make up the corridor. You already have some, with those spiffy 45 degree angle braces, but consider adding more; that pipe coming out of the wall looks good now, but consider making a cluster of pipes behind a chainlink fence. It breaks up the texture of the hallway, gives a little visual interest, and is a possible place for hidden items. Look at HL2DM maps for the best examples; almost all of them have weird little brush-based decor to break up boring walls. Give the maps a very "source-y" feel. Doors also can break silhouettes in interesting ways, even if you never intend for them to open. Locked prop doors can also function as very handy monster closets, to open on a trigger. Damage is just weathering of your level. I never build my map around damage; whenever I need to make a damaged room, I make it clean and detailed to start with, then start scattering the physics props, adding rubble piles, and smattering it with decals. ALL MAPS NEED DECALS. I see that you've started putting them on, but I would go further. Remember that *almost* all liquid stains need an origin, like a vent or pipe; dry stains can look good anywhere. Displacements are handy for detail too; trying making a 256x256 power 3 displacement, texturing it with trash or rubble, placing it 4 units below your floor, and raise it with a light brush. It will start to form very nice piles of trash. Dynamic effects is where I ran out of catchy names. It's how I add motion. I hate seeing corridors in my maps without at least one piece of movement. Something as simple as a cable system hanging from the ceiling, some func_dustmotes, a flaming barrel, sparks, fog clouds, hanging physics props, city scanners; all of these take only a few minutes to add, but are more than the sum of their parts. The perfect example would be Black Mesa, with it's super-gonzo dynamic lighting system, but even just one effect can really pop your environment out. Bonus points if it has a sound, too. Detail is normally my final pass through the level. This is where you scatter bottles, add bills and posters to wall, fill shelves with miscellany. Put your heart and soul into this; put on some music themed to your level, and try to imagine how every single piece of the level got to where it is. Taking bits of decompiled Valve maps is both not illegal and super productive; decompiling takes seconds and will give you easy access to literal cut and paste details. Just change the textures every so often so it doesn't look too obvious. Here's a few picture of my most recent map that illustrate my principles. Here's an undetailed, undamaged canal portion: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455381362935487/6FE0609B5155D1516243FE31147641BB03D15A1B/ And the final pass made it: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455381362935718/818A7233D8C02C7356683C25F68B01C59AA1D37D/ Notice that even in the first stage, I already had depth. SQUARE EDGES KILL. I rounded the pillars, angled the bottom portion of canal wall, and added those metal struts along the concrete. It's easiest to do big brushwork depth like this when you're building the map, and not during detail passes. Bonus: a section of (in my opinion) well detailed level. https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455381362936008/CCE5AA307A46B11DB2B44B17BC9E04A9ABDA7B68/ I try to eliminate every single point where brushes touch at either a flush or 90 degree angle. For dynamic events, we have some (unactivated) metrocops, opening cabinet doors, and a breakable vent with some goodies behind. I'm talking out my ass and you have no reason to believe me, but I've noticed all these features on Valve maps and the best community maps, and have been looking for a place to text-dump my thoughts. Go forth and make better maps.

That's awesome advice.

Can you send me thatmap ? I'd like to playtest it

I use the "raise to" when sketching out features https://i.imgur.com/augqTxr.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nUX3QGj.jpg then I go nuts with the smooth and raise to tool, then blend everything.

I will definitely add a frame around my doors, should help it with detail. Due to the sheer size of the level I got to slow down on decal placement hehe, I might even have to start lowering some detail as the map gets larger and packed with more functions/entities, only if I get really desperate. However I noticed that static props don't really count as an entity, they have their own max memory. So I will definitely go back through and add more props. This is excellent advice, I will go through add even more brush detail work, and maybe some cables hanging form the ceiling, as far as decals go though. I really have to start pulling back or else I am not gonna have any entity data left hehe: entdata [variable] 127509/393216 (32.4%) This is also a build map though, so it's supposed to look good, while leaving spaces mostly empty to give the player freedom to do as he pleases. What I am doing to make up for some lack of detail, is putting a lot of interactive entities in the level. Like that generator room water will do chemical damage to things you put into it, I also have a usable stove so you can pan fry watermelons till they explode, and even some operational cover for the meeting room window for super secrete meetings..... It also is coming with a complete nodegraph with tactical points for the AI to use. One of it's primary things it's gonna have though is a control console to change different aspects about the map, such as: Flooding it Freezing the ground Light control of the main area (more planned functionality for the future... which is why I gave it a large control panel for expansion.) So I have a lot of plans for this map, hehehe. Absolutely! (Only Half-Life 2 required... its part of me trying to make my content more accessible) Of course it's in Alpha, so besides the 2 main halls everything is a rough draft, so don't mind a few visual bugs, this includes the elevator light and especially in the server room.I left 1 test spawn point right outside of the new server room, so try not to let it disorientate you, lol. As a little added bonus, you can put you own music to play in the level, adjusted by the music volume in game: (Ofcourse it's totally optional) 44100 Hz max per MP3 file, and I wouldn't make them longer then 5 min, since the map is auto timed to shuffle the songs... it's intended for custom background music. Put it here: " sound\WilburCobb\music\background_music_1.mp3 " you can you have up to 4 " background_music_2.mp3 " ...etc gm_facility_5.bsp

I'd recommend to use some other textures and props, then pack it right into the .bsp file Packing Custom Content using VIDE in SteamPipe | TopHATTwaffle

Entdata can be completely ignored as the limit isn't imposed, and its also severely outdated as it was measured in 2004. You should be more worried about your edict count, aka entity count. You can have 2048 "networked" entities (players, weapons, DYNAMIC/physics props etc) and 2048 "logic" entities (logic_relay, logic_case, math_counter etc) If the "networked" entities limit is hit, the game will simply crash. Note that prop_static, prop_detail and func_detail don't count to either limit. To check your entity count in your map, use the "status" command in console while on your map. You will see this: edicts ???/2048. Where the safe limit is, needs to be determined by you. If your map is for singleplayer/co-op, the safe limit is at 1900. If your map is for a large multiplayer server, the safe limit is at 1400-1700, again depending on the game as some games have more entities being created.

Add some wires, mini-pipes, etc here https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/133429/718b1e04-4e67-4151-a98f-f9aeb037c645/20180714224645_1.jpg 2 - I really like that idea ! https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/133429/ddae7d07-175c-48e8-9cdb-8ade35d19c0f/20180714224623_1.jpg 3 - What is this ?? Why theres so much free space ?? https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/133429/ed1538d5-631a-4443-a64c-a76901cc198a/20180714224442_1.jpg 4 - Looks strange https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/133429/a848dd40-d677-4ed4-ac2d-da39600260d3/20180714223641_1.jpg everything looks good

Don't be afraid to knock stuff off the grid for displacements when making the initial shapes. The shape of your initial brush actually matters a lot to how the geometry will be edited, and since displacements don't cut visibility, they can be any shape you want as long as the brush has 6 sides and only 4 vertices per face. https://puu.sh/AWKxg/ddb5e293a5.png https://puu.sh/AWKyQ/8037838aab.png https://puu.sh/AWKFJ/2c5c914b29.png Plus displacements are fairly cheap to render, so it's okay to use them in places you may otherwise have decided to use a regular brush. I like using displacements on roads and parking lots because you can add slight curves and bends to the road surface. I make almost everything your feet would make contact with into a displacement because pretty much every ground surface is uneven in some way. Anything you can do to hide the tiling of textures will make the terrain feel more natural. Blends are probably one of the more effective ways of doing that. https://puu.sh/AWKM9/a5d9a2a213.png https://puu.sh/AWL8j/8e2eb7bc75.png

Ok, I think I got everything down pretty well. Was a WIP it should look good now. Thanks, can't have a huge control panel without it being flashy. Don't worry about that, I have mentioned before I am gonna fill it up with more structures (supports, flood lights, flood pipes, ... etc). It will however; retain most of it's empty space, for that is the main build area for the map. Kinda does, I flipped it so it should look better. This is how everything is coming together, still processing people's suggestions. It's a bit overwhelming hehehe. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/1b4920bd-bd5a-427e-b3c0-fdf1ff928823/20180715152100_1.jpg https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/50c005eb-d95b-4c9a-bf71-7d10f141a06d/20180715152002_1.jpg https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/293415/98441a71-17c9-401f-98d5-b45509f1a88b/20180715151818_1.jpg What do you think? It's really come a long way in the past few days.

Great wotk !