[QUOTE=swift and shift;35786524]dude do you collaborate over windows file sharing or something[/QUOTE]
Primarily SVN, GIT and FTP.
[QUOTE=Richy19;35786616]Well I like it, and will use it when I need something thats in between gedit/notepad++ and a full specific IDE like codeblocks.[/QUOTE]
Thank you
Would it be possible to remove the unbased IDE bashing until you can throw some examples out on the table?
[QUOTE=Jookia;35786653]Would it be possible to remove the unbased IDE bashing until you can throw some examples out on the table?[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should do the same until they release an alpha/beta release.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35786653]Would it be possible to remove the unbased IDE bashing until you can throw some examples out on the table?[/QUOTE]
We will send you the list once we actually get the time to compile it properly for you. No, we won't remove it. You have some serious nerve bashing our IDE with a comment like that.
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35786763]Maybe you should do the same until they release an alpha/beta release.[/QUOTE]
I haven't bashed anything, or made any claims. Only asked questions, and received answers.
[QUOTE=CountNoobula;35786795]We will send you the list once we actually get the time to compile it properly for you. No, we won't remove it. You have some serious nerve bashing our IDE with a comment like that.[/QUOTE]
What comment?
[QUOTE=Jookia;35786804]I haven't bashed anything, or made any claims. Only asked questions, and received answers.[/QUOTE]
What are you arguing about then? If they're bashing IDEs then they obviously have something better on their hands, something you have no access to, and thus no measure for comparison. Why not wait till they release something and then take their bashing into consideration once you try it out for yourself?
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35786835]What are you arguing about then? If they're bashing IDEs then they obviously have something better on their hands, something you have no access to, and thus no measure for comparison. Why not wait till they release something and then take their bashing into consideration once you try it out for yourself?[/QUOTE]
They've said that [b]most IDEs are badly designed[/b], this statement has nothing to do with their IDE. It's not a comparison, it's a statement bashing other IDEs, with no backing evidence.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35786862]They've said that [b]most IDEs are badly designed[/b], this statement has nothing to do with their IDE. It's not a comparison, it's a statement bashing other IDEs, with no backing evidence.[/QUOTE]
Unless they make something that makes other IDE designs wane in comparison.
[editline]2nd May 2012[/editline]
Which you can't prove or disprove but they can.
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35786890]Unless they make something that makes other IDE designs wane in comparison.[/QUOTE]
As I said, it's not a comparison.
[QUOTE=CountNoobula;35772942]Finally, because we know how badly most editors are designed, we decided to take this project head on with the most incredible user interface system that can possibly ever exist.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35786890]Which you can't prove or disprove but they can.[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything, I'm trying to find the evidence behind the statement that most IDEs are badly designed. It seems odd to just throw a statement out like that without any examples.
If the transparency is variable, I'll most likely be using it. Godspeed.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35786912]As I said, it's not a comparison.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything, I'm trying to find the evidence behind the statement that most IDEs are badly designed. It seems odd to just throw a statement out like that without any examples.[/QUOTE]
VS 11
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35786946]VS 11[/QUOTE]
Hello opinions.
In my opinion, which most people don't share, VS11 looks ok and is nice to use.
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35786946]VS 11[/QUOTE]
I need more IDEs than that for it to be [b]most[/b] IDEs, and I'd like detail on the bad design choices.
My observations on IDEs I regularly use:
VS: Menus, go explore 3/4 of the shit you never use.
VS: Major resource hog, couldn't they have designed that better and implemented lazy dependency loading?
VS: Lack of a package manager, if you want to install something, you have to do it the manual way for every single project over and over again, even mingw's command-line allows you to install pre-made packages once and roll form there.
VS: Lack of default keyword highlighting for C++.
VS: No support for rudimentary C++11 features like variadic templates yet, they'd put that up on the priority list if they had any sense.
VS9/10/11: The new CRT, ffs, I don't even know where to start on this.
VS11: Grays? Seriously? What's up with that? I can't see shit without good contrast.
Geany: Raw search intellisense, it works like a search engine's autocompletion.
Geany: Lack of many features. Can't even specify the compiler paths.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;35785212]What happens when you're doing TDD and you write your tests first?[/QUOTE]
Then we can use pink for unimplemented classes :v:
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35787263]VS11: Grays? Seriously? What's up with that? I can't see shit without good contrast.[/QUOTE]
I actually like lower-contrast (but not too low contrast) themes. Easier on the eyes. :\
They didn't change the god-awful layout, though, so meh.
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35787263]My observations on IDEs I regularly use:
VS: Menus, go explore 3/4 of the shit you never use.
VS: Major resource hog, couldn't they have designed that better and implemented lazy dependency loading?
VS: Lack of a package manager, if you want to install something, you have to do it the manual way for every single project over and over again, even mingw's command-line allows you to install pre-made packages once and roll form there.
VS: Lack of default keyword highlighting for C++.
VS: No support for rudimentary C++11 features like variadic templates yet, they'd put that up on the priority list if they had any sense.
VS9/10/11: The new CRT, ffs, I don't even know where to start on this.
VS11: Grays? Seriously? What's up with that? I can't see shit without good contrast.
Geany: Raw search intellisense, it works like a search engine's autocompletion.
Geany: Lack of many features. Can't even specify the compiler paths.[/QUOTE]
None of those are design flaws.
Jookia, why do you keep coming in here and prodding him for an answer he has already said is forthcoming? It's generally forum etiquette to allow someone to take time to answer a question. I've never seen someone pop back in every 30 minutes and say "ANSWER ME!"
I mean, generally, if you don't respond the other person just drops it.
[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;35787320]I actually like lower-contrast (but not too low contrast) themes. Easier on the eyes. :\
They didn't change the god-awful layout, though, so meh.[/QUOTE]
I don't mind low contrast when it's not cluttered, but it's just so damn cluttered it's unbearable.
[editline]2nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jookia;35787341]None of those are design flaws.[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking serious?
[QUOTE=ryandaniels;35787344]Jookia, why do you keep coming in here and prodding him for an answer he has already said is forthcoming? It's generally forum etiquette to allow someone to take time to answer a question. I've never seen someone pop back in every 30 minutes and say "ANSWER ME!"
I mean, generally, if you don't respond the other person just drops it.[/QUOTE]
I find it a failure on their part for making claims and not having evidence ready to back them up. I know it's a forum and whatnot, but all I want is just one small amount of the evidence. In this case, the list. One line. Since they're 'compiling a list', surely they have that done?
[editline]2nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35787350]Are you fucking serious?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Most of those are due to lack of features or bloat. That's nothing wrong with the IDE's design. For instance, a design flaw in GNU Screen is the lack of vertical splits.
Uh, whoops, that's a bad example. A design flaw in the GNOME File Roller is that file extensions and mime types are tied together, so you can't have multiple extensions for a mimetype.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35787375]Yes. Most of those are due to lack of features or bloat. That's nothing wrong with the IDE's design. For instance, a design flaw in GNU Screen is the lack of vertical splits.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean the user interface? because 'design' goes way beyond that.
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35787428]Do you mean the user interface? because 'design' goes way beyond that.[/QUOTE]
I added a proper example. I mean design flaws. Things that can't be fixed easily, because it's by design that it's like that. Design.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35787375]I find it a failure on their part for making claims and not having evidence ready to back them up. I know it's a forum and whatnot, but all I want is just one small amount of the evidence. In this case, the list. One line. Since they're 'compiling a list', surely they have that done?
[editline]2nd May 2012[/editline]
Yes. Most of those are due to lack of features or bloat. That's nothing wrong with the IDE's design. For instance, a design flaw in GNU Screen is the lack of vertical splits.
Uh, whoops, that's a bad example. A design flaw in the GNOME File Roller is that file extensions and mime types are tied together, so you can't have multiple extensions for a mimetype.[/QUOTE]
For gods sake, if you dont like it then dont use it and move on.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35787459]I added a proper example. I mean design flaws. Things that can't be fixed easily, because it's by design that it's like that. Design.[/QUOTE]
Then what do you consider the stuff I just posted above? Implementation flaws?
[QUOTE=voodooattack;35787513]Then what do you consider the stuff I just posted above? Implementation flaws?[/QUOTE]
I don't know the term for it, but I don't think that they added designed adding too many things, or not having support for some C++ features.
I'm discounting the horrendous GUI as I can assume you can theme and move bits around.
[QUOTE=Jookia;35787576]I don't know the term for it, but I don't think that they added designed adding too many things, or not having support for some C++ features.
I'm discounting the horrendous GUI as I can assume you can theme and move bits around.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_development_process#Software_development_activities[/url]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Waterfall_model.png[/IMG]
I see no middle stages between design and implementation. It's either a design flaw or an implementation that couldn't meet the design. In both cases, the design and planning stages are responsible if the implementation fails to deliver.
I've only listed pitfalls that I encounter on a daily basis for IDEs that I use on a daily basis, I'm sure anyone using an IDE can name their own. And let me stress again, those ARE design flaws.
That said, I'm sure HardCoded is going to have its own design flaws, we just don't know them yet and we can't name them yet (and I say we as in everybody here), but hopefully they can be avoided with constructive criticism and feedback to the devs along the way, I'm willing to support this project in any way I see fit, it's not like any of us got the chance to influence other IDEs we use daily and communicate stuff we liked, disliked, and hated about them.
Most IDEs out there had enough time to grow and receive user feedback, and they're still lacking.
lolwaterfall
But, seriously, this is a stupid argument :v:
Ah, I guess I was wrong about that. Sorry, you're right.
That said, not to move the goalposts (that's a dick thing to do), the original statement says most IDEs are badly designed. I original thought I could write 'design flaws', to point out flaws in the design, thus badly designed. But this kind of misses the point, as badly designed implies that the overall design itself was bad, not just flawed in design.
I don't know where I'm going with this. All I'm saying is that coming in with your own IDE that's easily criticised, then bashing most other IDEs that've been around for way longer, then not providing anything to back the claims, not even a single example of how the design was bad, is a little hypocritical considering the new IDE implies it's better than the others in that aspect.
[editline]2nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;35787900]lolwaterfall[/QUOTE]
This too.
[editline]2nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;35787900]But, seriously, this is a stupid argument :v:[/QUOTE]
This as well.
[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;35787900]lolwaterfall
But, seriously, this is a stupid argument :v:[/QUOTE]
Best waterfall there is, and a logical one at that.
And I agree, this argument has gone on long enough, no more derail from me.
Jesus christ it's like a generic movie government agency/pro haxxor UI
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