[QUOTE=garry;33006795]You know it[/QUOTE]
Why would you encourage using parentheses around his if conditions? It's completely pointless in Lua due to the "then" keyword, and the only argument I can see for readability is that it looks more C-like, which is just plain stupid; you'll write much better Lua writing idiosyncratic Lua than shoe-horning as much C-like syntax on a non-C-like language as possible.
While I see the awesome paper-based grading system, wouldn't it be easier to print out a coloured diff with comments?
I just started since I had school and stuff. I hope I can be done with it today!
[QUOTE=jA_cOp;33008647]Why would you encourage using parentheses around his if conditions? It's completely pointless in Lua due to the "then" keyword, and the only argument I can see for readability is that it looks more C-like, which is just plain stupid; you'll write much better Lua writing idiosyncratic Lua than shoe-horning as much C-like syntax on a non-C-like language as possible.[/QUOTE]
Because I'm teaching him to program, not teaching him to be a Lua syntax asshole
[editline]28th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jookia;33008719]While I see the awesome paper-based grading system, wouldn't it be easier to print out a coloured diff with comments?[/QUOTE]
Why would I go through the effort of doing all that when I can sit down with him and tell him using words and by drawing on a piece of paper
I did this assignment today and a girl actually asked to play it
:babemagnet:
[QUOTE=sambooo;33009410]I did this assignment today and a girl actually asked to play it
:babemagnet:[/QUOTE]
Was it your mom?
[QUOTE=garry;33009297]Because I'm teaching him to program, not teaching him to be a Lua syntax asshole[/QUOTE]
I guess a somewhat rational response was too much to ask from your massive ego?
I'm pretty sure you kinda are teaching him to be a "Lua syntax asshole" by teaching him cargo cult programming Lua syntax because of your own nonsensical, redundant syntax habits.
It's not that the habit is particularly destructive, it's just terribly unfortunate that you're [I]teaching[/I] it.
[QUOTE=jA_cOp;33009729]I guess a somewhat rational response was too much to ask from your massive ego?
I'm pretty sure you kinda are teaching him to be a "Lua syntax asshole" by teaching him cargo cult programming Lua syntax because of your own nonsensical, redundant syntax habits.
It's not that the habit is particularly destructive, it's just terribly unfortunate that you're [I]teaching[/I] it.[/QUOTE]
What i've gathered from all of this, is that garry physically sat down and explained pretty much all portions of the code that qwilty wrote. In doing so explaining things to look out for when he eventually steps into the wide world of different languages and the various syntaxes that most modern languages adhere to. So he only used the markings on the paper as a visual aid to what he explained to gwilty, and his actual explanation could have been (it most likely was) far more useful.
For example, he could have said, "While not having parenthesis around your if statement is still able to compile under Lua, you will have problems with it down the road when you eventually go on to learn C based languages or Java."
The final goal is to make Gwilty a good programmer with the means to learn and adapt to most languages, as well as hold his own.
[QUOTE=garry;33009297]Why would I go through the effort of doing all that when I can sit down with him and tell him using words and by drawing on a piece of paper[/QUOTE]
Oh, I assume you wrote that down then handed it to him.
[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;33009616]Was it your mom?[/QUOTE]
I don't like you :(
[QUOTE=garry;33009297]Because I'm teaching him to program, not teaching him to be a Lua syntax asshole[/QUOTE]
Well you already are a syntax/semantic asshole if you corrected his tab alignment, so why not go all the way and teach him to not use redundant sets of parenthesis in a language where they are useless and ugly?
There's more to programming than writing breakout clones. Syntax/code appearance/maintainability matters.
[QUOTE=jA_cOp;33009729]I guess a somewhat rational response was too much to ask from your massive ego?
I'm pretty sure you kinda are teaching him to be a "Lua syntax asshole" by teaching him cargo cult programming Lua syntax because of your own nonsensical, redundant syntax habits.
It's not that the habit is particularly destructive, it's just terribly unfortunate that you're [I]teaching[/I] it.[/QUOTE]
I'm teaching him to program. How many programming languages do you know that do it Lua's way vs do it `my` way? I don't know what your problem is?
[editline]28th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=gparent;33010221]Well you already are a syntax/semantic asshole if you corrected his tab alignment, so why not go all the way and teach him to not use redundant sets of parenthesis in a language where they are useless and ugly?
There's more to programming than writing breakout clones. Syntax/code appearance/maintainability matters.[/QUOTE]
I corrected his tab alignment because it got him into trouble.. should have not mentioned it I guess?
[QUOTE=jA_cOp;33009729]I guess a somewhat rational response was too much to ask from your massive ego?
I'm pretty sure you kinda are teaching him to be a "Lua syntax asshole" by teaching him cargo cult programming Lua syntax because of your own nonsensical, redundant syntax habits.
It's not that the habit is particularly destructive, it's just terribly unfortunate that you're [I]teaching[/I] it.[/QUOTE]
It's not harming anyone or anything, I'm surprised you care as much as you do. He teaches to program in the way he knows how to program, if you want it to be taught different do the teaching yourself instead of complaining, no need to go on full attack mode.
I know this is a bit offtopic but who is Gwilty? I've been seeing him around on FP.
What the fuck man, this was a perfectly nice thread before
[QUOTE=Mr.T;33010386]I know this is a bit offtopic but who is Gwilty? I've been seeing him around on FP.[/QUOTE]
Cofounder of Facepunch Studios ltd.
Can't wait for the next assignment. It's kinda like work but it really doesn't feel like it.
I've never seen people get so mean and angry over syntax
How many languages in active use do you know of that absolutely explicitly require you [b]not[/b] to wrap your if statements in parentheses? I bet you could count the number on one hand.
Now, how many languages require that you do?
If you're drilling a newbie in programming, you would want to impart coding practices that will be useful in his career.
If he's going to move on to C++/Java etc, then he'll need to use bracketed ifs.
If he's going to continue on with Lua and help Garry develop gmod, then he'll still need to use bracketed ifs because that's the established style in the GLua codebase and consistency is king.
Therefore, using unbracketed ifs simply because the language supports them is stupid.
[QUOTE=garry;33010274]I corrected his tab alignment because it got him into trouble.. should have not mentioned it I guess?[/QUOTE]
You're basically preaching A and doing B. Or rather, preaching A, but when someone else calls you out on a different aspect of A, he's an asshole to be ignored. Just feels odd to me, and a superiority attitude like that is detrimental to your final goal (teaching Gwilty how to program).
Really, that's the most important part. Maybe it's just me but as a student, details mattered. Being consistent in their teachings was my favorite aspect of my best teachers. As for the argument, jA_cOp is entirely correct, but I feel he is capable of arguing for himself.
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;33010300]It's not harming anyone or anything, I'm surprised you care as much as you do. He teaches to program in the way he knows how to program, if you want it to be taught different do the teaching yourself instead of complaining, no need to go on full attack mode.[/QUOTE]
Who went into full attack mode? He made an innocuous comment and got called an asshole for it.
[QUOTE=Nigey Nige;33010393]What the fuck man, this was a perfectly nice thread before[/QUOTE]
It still is, I feel we're being civil. If that's not the case then Garry can just tell us to shut up and we'll move on.
[QUOTE=Lexic;33011130]If you're drilling a newbie in programming, you would want to impart coding practices that will be useful in his career.[/QUOTE]
Using the syntax of the language you're using without accidentally (or purposely) using another language's practices is a very useful skill that will be part of his career too.
[QUOTE=Lexic;33011130]How many languages in active use do you know of that absolutely explicitly require you [b]not[/b] to wrap your if statements in parentheses? I bet you could count the number on one hand.
Now, how many languages require that you do?
If you're drilling a newbie in programming, you would want to impart coding practices that will be useful in his career.
If he's going to move on to C++/Java etc, then he'll need to use bracketed ifs.
If he's going to continue on with Lua and help Garry develop gmod, then he'll still need to use bracketed ifs because that's the established style in the GLua codebase and consistency is king.
Therefore, using unbracketed ifs simply because the language supports them is stupid.[/QUOTE]
Why does it support them if they're not to be used?
[editline]28th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=gparent;33011199]You're basically preaching A and doing B. Or rather, preaching A, but when someone else calls you out on a different aspect of A, he's an asshole to be ignored. Just feels odd to me, and a superiority attitude like that is detrimental to your final goal (teaching Gwilty how to program).[/QUOTE]
I don't understand? What am I preaching?
[QUOTE=garry;33011242]Why does it support them if they're not to be used?[/QUOTE]
wuh?
I said Lua supports not putting brackets around your ifs, but that doesn't mean you have to not put brackets around them.
[QUOTE=garry;33011242]I don't understand? What am I preaching?[/QUOTE]
What I mean is that not using superfluous syntax is just another issue like tab alignment, yet you seem to recognize one and reject the other. Using parenthesis in Lua if/then statements is basically like using "i = i + 1" rather than "i++". Sure it's not a big mistake, but it's stupid and annoying when you're used to reading non C influenced Lua code.
[QUOTE=gparent;33011365]What I mean is that not using superfluous syntax is just another issue like tab alignment, yet you seem to recognize one and reject the other. Using parenthesis in Lua if/then statements is basically like using "i = i + 1" rather than "i++". Sure it's not a big mistake, but it's stupid and annoying when you're used to reading non C influenced Lua code.[/QUOTE]
It's more like x = (x + 10) it works but it's utterly meaningless.
[QUOTE=Philly c;33011417]It's more like x = (x + 10) it works but it's utterly meaningless.[/QUOTE]
Similar comparison I guess, the main point is that you should adapt your syntax to the language you're using, not the other way around.
[QUOTE=gparent;33011199]
Who went into full attack mode? He made an innocuous comment and got called an asshole for it.[/QUOTE]
jA_cOp wasn't exactly being pleasant in his remarks. I just didn't think it was necessary to talk like that no matter what the other person was saying.
I don't see why this is such a problem. Garry's teaching Gwilty to program, starting with Lua for ease but eventually moving on to more common C-style compiled languages. Getting C practices in early will prevent confusion later on.
It's not syntactically perfect Lua, but that was never the objective.
As for correct indentation, anyone that thinks that is nitpicking isn't a good programmer. Proper indentation allows for so much better clarity when having to debug in nested statements. Such a person will also never be any good with Python.
[editline]28th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=gparent;33011605]Similar comparison I guess, the main point is that you should adapt your syntax to the language you're using, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
Lua is a stepping stone here, becoming fluent in it isn't the objective for Gwilty.
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;33011642]jA_cOp wasn't exactly being pleasant in his remarks. I just didn't think it was necessary to talk like that no matter what the other person was saying.[/QUOTE]
I see nothing unpleasant in [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1134232?p=33008647&viewfull=1#post33008647]this post[/url]. Could you bold it for me? Maybe your threshold for harshness is much lower than mine (it probably is).
[QUOTE=gparent;33011734]I see nothing unpleasant in [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1134232?p=33008647&viewfull=1#post33008647]this post[/url]. Could you bold it for me? Maybe your threshold for harshness is much lower than mine (it probably is).[/QUOTE]
I didn't quote that post, I quoted [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?p=33009729#post33009729]this one[/url]
[quote=jA_cOp]
I guess a somewhat rational response was too much to ask from your massive ego?
I'm pretty sure you kinda are teaching him to be a "Lua syntax asshole" by teaching him cargo cult programming Lua syntax because of your own nonsensical, redundant syntax habits.
It's not that the habit is particularly destructive, it's just terribly unfortunate that you're teaching it.
[/quote]
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