definition of a programming language (discussion/rant) - Developers

[QUOTE=Tamschi;44496089]Not really, the markup languages describe information more than processes, they are designed to carry machine readable semantics. Programming languages are designed to describe processes/programs that transform information and are often subpar at containing it. You can write a program in HTML/CSS, but it's prohibitively cumbersome. You can describe a full web page in C++ without embedding HTML, but it's for more annoying than necessary (barring preprocessor/template hacks).[/QUOTE] I recognize the obvious differences but I argue that those differences only form sub-categories of programming languages, not languages in general. Those are just semantics in the end, but the starting point that "HTML isn't a programming language" is already very nitpicky.

[QUOTE=Darwin226;44496114]I recognize the obvious differences but I argue that those differences only form sub-categories of programming languages, not languages in general. Those are just semantics in the end, but the starting point that "HTML isn't a programming language" is already very nitpicky.[/QUOTE] I think "machine readable language" would be a far better common category. Apart from the existing use and thereby hardened meaning, programming language also implies that the thing that is being described is a program. With markup languages like HTML that is usually not the case, since the information contained in them doesn't describe calculations. It would be possible to generate a program based on the information that is contained in the document, but by that definition every format readable by a machine would become "a programming language" so the definition would be so broad that it becomes quasi meaningless in light of more descriptive denominations.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;44496253]With markup languages like HTML that is usually not the case, since the information contained in them doesn't describe calculations.[/QUOTE] It describes a document to calculate in to a web page. Just because it's not math doesn't mean it's not programming something.

are zip files programs?

[QUOTE=Lexic;44496279]are zip files programs?[/QUOTE] The compression algorithm's instruction set could be classified as a mini programming language, so yes.

How about jpegs? They've got loads of complicated stuff involving cosines and predictive drawing.

[QUOTE=Darwin226;44495552]The purpose is to tell the computer what you want it to do. All of those fit the description. Your partition into programming languages and markup languages is as arbitrary as any other and has nothing to do with this subject. You're basically claiming that a banana isn't a fruit because it isn't sour like the other fruits.[/QUOTE] The only thing that matters is what it was intended for and how it's used. C was intended to be used as a programming language, and that's how it's used. HTML wasn't intended to be used as a programming language, and it's not, regardless of how Turing-complete it is. Bananas are fruits because they're considered fruits by both botanists and the common person. Tomatoes might have many features of fruits, and some people might classify them as fruits based on those features, but it's regularly referred to and used as a vegetable (except now that smartasses know that it's technically a fruit). If HTML + CSS were regularly used for programming instead of markup, and regularly referred to as programming languages, they'd be programming languages. If C++ was used for markup instead of programming (jesus that'd be ugly), and regularly referred to as a markup language, it'd be a markup language.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;44501010]The only thing that matters is what it was intended for and how it's used. C was intended to be used as a programming language, and that's how it's used. HTML wasn't intended to be used as a programming language, and it's not, regardless of how Turing-complete it is. Bananas are fruits because they're considered fruits by both botanists and the common person. Tomatoes might have many features of fruits, and some people might classify them as fruits based on those features, but it's regularly referred to and used as a vegetable (except now that smartasses know that it's technically a fruit). If HTML + CSS were regularly used for programming instead of markup, and regularly referred to as programming languages, they'd be programming languages. If C++ was used for markup instead of programming (jesus that'd be ugly), and regularly referred to as a markup language, it'd be a markup language.[/QUOTE] I understand what you're saying and though I don't really agree with the opinion that markup languages aren't a subset of programming languages, ultimately, you're right.

[QUOTE=Lexic;44496668]How about jpegs? They've got loads of complicated stuff involving cosines and predictive drawing.[/QUOTE] I don't know. I suppose under my definition any form of data is a programming language as it affects output. Hmm.