What are you working on? January 2012

[Tamschi]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34176616][text][/QUOTE]

We should make data management, logic, networking, rendering and interaction into mostly independent systems, so we can get small things working first. An observer pattern would be good, then we can connect debug consoles to the interfaces and things like that.

Also: [url]http://cowboyprogramming.com/2007/01/05/evolve-your-heirachy[/url]

If we don't make the entities modular, the automation stuff will be really hard to make as a team.

[Lily]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34176916]Maybe that was auto generated, with "Wireless-G Broadband Router" inserted programatically? Although it is an odd way of doing it.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing that too, but its still kind of retarded

[Deco Da Man]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34176616]words - lots of words[/QUOTE]

Would definitely support this.

I suggest using a site that support public branching, such as GitHub.
That way, people can contribute and then the main programmers can selectively apply the commits to the main project.

As for the world design: if you are going for Minecraft/Infiniminer-esque blocks, why not do something similar to what benji2015 posted a while back?
[QUOTE=benji2015;34087050][img_thumb]http://puu.sh/cDSt[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]

A smooth rendering applied this to this would be most awesome.
Also, if you were to use octrees, you would be able to support much smaller block sizes than Minecraft, while maintaining, if not lowering, the CPU and memory usage.

[Robber]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34176616]The world is cube based, with a cube being about half a metre in each dimension. The server would generate a reasonably large finite map, a square of the surface of Mars.[/QUOTE]
Why not infinite? If it's large enough for multiple colonies you can't keep it completely in memory anyway.

[sondre99v]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34176616]Words...[/QUOTE]

I'd take part in this... may I however humbly express some of my own opinions:
* I would rather make it isometric or some other style, to avoid people saying "Minecraft ripoff!!!"
* I'd like it to be 3rd person gameplay. Like RCT or OpenTTD, think this would appeal more to the "build a colony"-theme.

Also:
[QUOTE=Deco Da Man;34176973]
Also, if you were to use octrees, you would be able to support much smaller block sizes than Minecraft, while maintaining, if not lowering, the CPU and memory usage.[/QUOTE]
Minecraft does, in fact, use octrees. My friend and I struggled for a long time with this kind of thing with the UmbraEngine ([url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1108612[/url]).
I also made most of the terrain-generator in that, and could pretty quicly whop-up a basic chunk-based/fixed-size mars-generator.

I suggest someone make a thread about this :v:

[Ziks]

A component model for entities sounds good, we'll go with that. For the world rendering style, I was thinking of having bevelled blocks like that. The world doesn't have to be made of cubes, just aligned to a cubic grid. We'll probably be using an octree, as that's what I used in my Minecraft project. I was avoiding infinite terrain because it's easier in my experience to generate everything at the start. If you have to keep generating chunks of the world then you have to find a way of remembering and continuing features that go over chunk boundaries and so on. It's possible, but just more to worry about. We could just try and leave it open to go either way later or.

[editline]12th January 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=sondre99v;34177126]I'd take part in this... may I however humbly express some of my own opinions:
* I would rather make it isometric or some other style, to avoid people saying "Minecraft ripoff!!!"
* I'd like it to be 3rd person gameplay. Like RCT or OpenTTD, think this would appeal more to the "build a colony"-theme.

Also:

Minecraft does, in fact, use octrees. My friend and I struggled for a long time with this kind of thing with the UmbraEngine ([url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1108612[/url]).
I also made most of the terrain-generator in that, and could pretty quicly whop-up a basic chunk-based/fixed-size mars-generator.

I suggest someone make a thread about this :v:[/QUOTE]

Isometric might be the way to go, it would make things much simpler. The only problem is how we will cut away stuff when you are underground so you can see your player, but I'm sure we will figure it out.
I was hoping it would be multiplayer, with each person doing different jobs around the colony but I guess we can do a Tycoon / Dwarf Fortress style game where you give colonists jobs to do. The shuttles would be like the waves of migrants in DF. Multiplayer would then be like OpenTTD with one player per colony.

[Overv]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34176916]Maybe that was auto generated, with "Wireless-G Broadband Router" inserted programatically? Although it is an odd way of doing it.[/QUOTE]

Yup, in fact Facepunch does even stranger stuff if you look at the top of the page:

[cpp]var vb_disable_ajax = parseInt("0", 10);
var LOGGEDIN = 89893 > 0 ? true : false;[/cpp]

[Ziks]

[QUOTE=Overv;34177211]Yup, in fact Facepunch does even stranger stuff if you look at the top of the page:

[cpp]var vb_disable_ajax = parseInt("0", 10);
var LOGGEDIN = 89893 > 0 ? true : false;[/cpp][/QUOTE]

Why not something like:

echo "var LOGGEDIN = " . ($login_time > 0 ? "true" : "false") . ";";

Or whatever the valid PHP would be.

[BlkDucky]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34177160]A component model for entities sounds good, we'll go with that. For the world rendering style, I was thinking of having bevelled blocks like that. The world doesn't have to be made of cubes, just aligned to a cubic grid. We'll probably be using an octree, as that's what I used in my Minecraft project. I was avoiding infinite terrain because it's easier in my experience to generate everything at the start. If you have to keep generating chunks of the world then you have to find a way of remembering and continuing features that go over chunk boundaries and so on. It's possible, but just more to worry about. We could just try and leave it open to go either way later or.

[editline]12th January 2012[/editline]

Isometric might be the way to go, it would make things much simpler. The only problem is how we will cut away stuff when you are underground so you can see your player, but I'm sure we will figure it out.
[B]I was hoping it would be multiplayer, with each person doing different jobs around the colony[/B] but I guess we can do a Tycoon / Dwarf Fortress style game where you give colonists jobs to do. The shuttles would be like the waves of migrants in DF. Multiplayer would then be like OpenTTD with one player per colony.[/QUOTE]

space fortress 13

[Tamschi]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34177160]Isometric might be the way to go, it would make things much simpler. The only problem is how we will cut away stuff when you are underground so you can see your player, but I'm sure we will figure it out.[/QUOTE]

How about a projection similar to the one EDGE uses? It's still a fixed view that can easily be cut open, but it has a slight perspective.

[Ziks]

[QUOTE=BlkDucky;34177257]space fortress 13[/QUOTE]

Probably more like Space Fortress Miner Tycoon 13

[editline]12th January 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Tamschi;34177273]How about a projection similar to the one EDGE uses? It's still a fixed view that can easily be cut open, but it has a slight perspective.[/QUOTE]

That sounds good, since that is still 3D it would save us from making isometric sprites for each rotation too.

[acpm]

[url]https://github.com/andrewmcwatters/lbass[/url]

Just cleaned up and released my lbass module which I used for stuff way back in earlier WAYWOs. Useful if you'd like a bit more flexibility in LOVE.

[editline]12th January 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34177254]Why not something like:

echo "var LOGGEDIN = " . ($login_time > 0 ? "true" : "false") . ";";

Or whatever the valid PHP would be.[/QUOTE]

because vbulletin

[RyanDv3]

You could have the terrain wrap around on both sides (this would just be a code phenomenon, like making a 2d game wrap at the edges). I believe that would make your world (functionally) doughnut shaped.

Visually, I'd imagine you could warp the terrain ever so slightly, creating horizons that obscure the endlessly repeating world.

Come to think of it, I'd like to make something that does exactly that

Anyways, I'd be happy to help with your project ziks, although I'd imagine you'd be better off starting by yourself and then post jobs that need to be done, rather than try to broker a dedicated team that most likely will collapse and take the project with it.

[Ziks]

I think I'll set up the boilerplate myself, until the trunk of the project is done and there are branches spanning out for individual people to work on.

[editline] [/editline]

Trunks and branches as in a tree, not version control.

[editline] [/editline]

And not a tree as in the data structure.

[editline] [/editline]

One of those brown and green things.

[BlkDucky]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34177382]I think I'll set up the boilerplate myself, until the trunk of the project is done and there are branches spanning out for individual people to work on.

[editline] [/editline]

Trunks and branches as in a tree, not version control.

[editline] [/editline]

And not a tree as in the data structure.

[editline] [/editline]

One of those brown and green things.[/QUOTE]

I am confused.

[AtomiCasd]

Octrees pretty much solves everything.

[Deco Da Man]

[QUOTE=AtomiCasd;34177543]Octrees pretty much solves everything.[/QUOTE]

Octree-based source control.

("Developer! I haz error!" "Which commit"? "Top Left Forward, Bottom Left Forward, Top Right Rear, Top Left Rear, ...")

[Ziks]

Here's the [url=https://github.com/Metapyziks/MarsMiner]repository[/url], so far I have a window, some resource loading tools, a shader program abstraction (it's a bit limited, needs some work), sprite rendering and some basic UI controls salvaged from previous projects.

I've split the project into a Shared, Client and Server binary, with a main executable binary which uses the Shared and Client ones. We can always change this if it's a bad idea, I just thought it would be useful to keep client and server separate so we can have a server executable with no rendering functions in it.

I'll get a thread organised tomorrow, and we should organise what things need to be done and in what order then.

[ichiman94]

Made player's failing and moving physics slick as fuck.

I won't post picture because it can only seen in motion.
Also added texturemanager

Once I get a test weapon and more tiles in my tilesheet, I post a video

[acpm]

[QUOTE=Deco Da Man;34178052]Octree-based source control.

("Developer! I haz error!" "Which commit"? "Top Left Forward, Bottom Left Forward, Top Right Rear, Top Left Rear, ...")[/QUOTE]

Or it would be distributed, but by group. So any time you wanted to push, you'd need to merge with 7 other co-developers in your department.

[Darwin226]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34178136]Here's the [url=https://github.com/Metapyziks/MarsMiner]repository[/url], so far I have a window, some resource loading tools, a shader program abstraction (it's a bit limited, needs some work), sprite rendering and some basic UI controls salvaged from previous projects.

I've split the project into a Shared, Client and Server binary, with a main executable binary which uses the Shared and Client ones. We can always change this if it's a bad idea, I just thought it would be useful to keep client and server separate so we can have a server executable with no rendering functions in it.

I'll get a thread organised tomorrow, and we should organise what things need to be done and in what order then.[/QUOTE]

I vote for FPS camera Minecrafty thing but with beveled blocks or maybe even march cubes to make "smooth" terrain.

[Lord Fear]

[QUOTE=Dlaor-guy;34176193]Why not? I can rotate the camera and move stuff in the scene at 60 fps with low quality (lots of noise). I don't think it'll take long until we can do this at high quality.[/QUOTE]

It's called Ray Tracing, and we already do use the method for high quality things. For example, the environment in Avatar was ray traced. The whole concept is that you simulate light, for every pixel on the screen a ray is sent that then hits an object and bounces around for a specified time and then that pixel gets it's color depending on what it hits. The problem with this is the fact how seriously expensive it is to do. Just a couple of scenes in the movie Avatar took [I]days[/I] to render using specialized hardware and seriously fine tuned algorithms.

With that said, I don't exactly know the details of what the webgl thing does but it is a form of ray tracing.

[ROBO_DONUT]

[QUOTE=Darwin226;34176549]I've read somewhere that "the computers are going to get fast" doesn't really hold water anymore. We might not see a drastic increase in computing power for a long time.[/QUOTE]
This is right. Transistors aren't going to get much smaller than they are now.
The gate of a FET in a modern processor is only about 200 Si atoms wide, and actually making things that small is becoming difficult because the photolithographic process relies on light. Or it was light, but light has a wavelength of hundreds of nanometers, so now we're on X-rays or something. And the higher we go up the EM spectrum, the more convoluted and unwieldy the process becomes. The fact is high-energy photons just don't like to behave like regular light does. For instance, regular light can pass through glass because the energy of a visible light photon is less than the bandgap of glass. This won't work for X-rays because they have too much energy, and they excite electrons in the glass and generally misbehave as they try to pass through. They found some way around this, of course, for low-energy X-rays but it illustrates the issues they face; the challenges that lie ahead if they choose to continue in this direction would make this look insignificant.

So, [i]if[/i] computers do get radically faster, it's going to be a revolutionary change, not an evolutionary one, and everything you think you know now is going to be ancient history. But it's just as likely that it's all just going to come to a grinding halt for a while.

[Ploo]

Managed to do some further work on my color bot today. More OCR work, such as reading (rather than matching given text) and ripped some more fonts.
[img]http://puu.sh/db6u[/img]

Wrote a little slicer too, i'd type the alphabet in a input area, screenshot that, give it a pink background and pass it through the slicer which would spit out the chars one after another and name them after their ASCII values.

[QUOTE=Dotmister;34130258]How are they preventing bots? Seems to me like it would be more worth your while working around their protection than working on OCR techniques for hacking.[/QUOTE]
I've never really gotten as far as writing my own reflection bot so I can't really tell what's different now other than the fact no one has accomplished it since their 'bot nuke'.

If multiple hundred-thousand dollar businesses such as RSBuddy, Powerbot, RSBots (for which I was a script dev until the nuke) have failed to return then what chance do I stand on my own. If money isn't motivating these organisations then what chance do I stand as a single entity with no experience? It's a lost cause.

[acpm]

Holy crap that's a lot of gold. I think the most I've ever had in that game was like ~100k or something. If even that.

[Yogurt]

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;34178613]Holy crap that's a lot of gold. I think the most I've ever had in that game was like ~100k or something. If even that.[/QUOTE]

That's really not a lot at all.

[Ziks]

[QUOTE=Darwin226;34178347]I vote for FPS camera Minecrafty thing but with beveled blocks or maybe even march cubes to make "smooth" terrain.[/QUOTE]

It's probably a good idea to decide that now. Let's have a semi-formal vote:

[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/box.png[/img] - Minecraft style first person, multiple players per colony controlling one character each
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/img] - Isometric Transport Tycoon / Roller Coaster Tycoon style viewpoint, multiple players per colony controlling one character each
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img] - Isometric Transport Tycoon / Roller Coaster Tycoon style viewpoint, Dwarf Fortress style gameplay where you give orders to NPCs
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/clock.png[/img] - Top down grid based, multiple players per colony controlling one character each
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/funny2.png[/img] - Top down grid based, Dwarf Fortress style gameplay where you give orders to NPCs

[QUOTE=Deco Da Man;34178844][img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/winner.png[/img] - First-person "Omnipotent-being" (free roam) view where you can give orders to NPCs in a top-down manner, but you can also take control of individual characters.
(Lego Rock Raiders-esque... if you're familiar with that game)[/QUOTE]

[Ploo]

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;34178613]Holy crap that's a lot of gold. I think the most I've ever had in that game was like ~100k or something. If even that.[/QUOTE]

You should see how much I used to gold farm and what I got paid for script dev on top of that.

I should probably get a real job.

[Deco Da Man]

[QUOTE=Ziks;34178751]It's probably a good idea to decide that now. Let's have a semi-formal vote:[/QUOTE]

[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/winner.png[/img] - First-person "Omnipotent-being" (free roam) view where you can give orders to NPCs in a top-down manner, but you can also take control of individual characters.
(Lego Rock Raiders-esque... if you're familiar with that game)

[acpm]

[QUOTE=Deco Da Man;34178844][img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/winner.png[/img] - First-person "Omnipotent-being" (free roam) view where you can give orders to NPCs in a top-down manner, but you can also take control of individual characters.
(Lego Rock Raiders-esque... if you're familiar with that game)[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of what Halo was suppose to be.