[QUOTE=Trumple;34877389]Ah ok, I was meant to say open it/test it...not sure why I said upload it
You're being pedantic, but so far [b]you've failed to give us a single good reason not to use an IDE[/b]...
(I know you said your work might not be happy with it, but what about hobbyists? Not everyone does PHP for a living)[/QUOTE]
You keep going on about hobbyists/professionals, I don't get your point. Most people here are hobbyists, off the top of my head, only myself, Kmart, swift and shift and a couple more actually do this professionally, yet there's no correlation between those numbers and choices between "light" text-editors and full IDEs. Like I said, the line between an IDE and a simple text-editor is becoming blurrier - I have all the features I [i]need[/i] in my text editor (be it vi or sublime), I simply took the time to find/create them for my editors to fit my needs, without all the extra crap I don't need and dislike about IDEs.
Nobody's trying to start a fight about this stupid meaningless bullshit, calm down.
[QUOTE=StinkyJoe;34877484]You keep going on about hobbyists/professionals, I don't get your point. Most people here are hobbyists, off the top of my head, only myself, Kmart, swift and shift and a couple more actually do this professionally, yet there's no correlation between those numbers and choices between "light" text-editors and full IDEs. Like I said, the line between an IDE and a simple text-editor is becoming blurrier - I have all the features I [i]need[/i] in my text editor (be it vi or sublime), I simply took the time to find/create them for my editors to fit my needs, without all the extra crap I don't need and dislike about IDEs.
Nobody's trying to start a fight about this stupid meaningless bullshit, calm down.[/QUOTE]
Well the correlation thing is mostly an assumption. On my engineering course, we are taught to use Notepad++ and other text editors for programming rather than IDEs as first, purely so we learn the 'hard way' for the first few weeks (you learn to be more careful if you don't have a syntax checker)
All the lecturers are used to using vim and so they will still encourage the use of it. Knowing this, you can make a safer bet that people who have been encouraged to use vim and such will continue use in their careers after leaving University.
For people who are hobbyists, they don't go through the same course and will probably revert to the easy route, using IDEs
That's the logic behind my reasoning, anyway. Mostly assumptions but it's also backed up by people I've spoken to on forums and such who find the same pattern/correlation.
Anyway sorry if I sounded as though I'm trying to start a fight
[QUOTE=swift and shift;34877469]IDEs are slow and clumsy[/QUOTE]
By the time the time Dreamweaver opened for the rest of my class; I've already finished the assignment in Np++. You don't need an IDE for PHP; I don't want an IDE for PHP. I liek horsies.
Nothing wrong with using Dreamweaver, It has great file management, toolbars, and auto FTP system. A great too for management. Just never ever click "Design View".
Bult in FTP is bad. You should be using version control, and if you are using version control you should be deploying through that.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;34913340]Bult in FTP is bad. You should be using version control, and if you are using version control you should be deploying through that.[/QUOTE]
WELL, it has that too.
[QUOTE=swift and shift;34877469]IDEs are slow and clumsy[/QUOTE]
I would have agreed with you a year or two ago, but have you tried IDE's like netbeans recently? Its not really that slow anymore.. Ok, i admit i have upgraded my computers recently (for that raise i got for being so fucking productive), but netbeans starts up and is ready to go in 3 seconds.
There has been some problems with suggestions/codehints lagging stuff up, but that seems to be gone.
With todays IDEs and hardware, theres really not any problems with using an IDE, but i agree that NOT using an IDE in the beginning of your learning curve might make you a better coder in the end.
But really if you refuse to use an IDE in a job, i'd never hire you for sure..
Don't get me wrong, getting shit done in vi can be fast too, but i have yet to see a collegue work truly effective with an editor (especially vi) seems to me that most people who uses editors just wants "fancy hacker colors" when they code so they can look cool.. But that is of course just a prejudice i have.
I would use an IDE if I'm working on a project that needs thousands and thousands of lines so I can be more organized, but other than that, I don't think something huge like NetBeans is needed to complete something. Another thing is I really like how minimal sublime text is and It's beautiful (not saying netbeans isn't I've just never used it) and easily customizable (again I've never used netbeans).
I usually do not like to see bunch of toolbars when I'm working with only few hundred lines. I also like to keep my editor size small so I can see other windows as I'm working on it.
[QUOTE=reeferdk;34919105]
Don't get me wrong, getting shit done in vi can be fast too, but i have yet to see a collegue work truly effective with an editor (especially vi) seems to me that most people who uses editors just wants "fancy hacker colors" when they code so they can look cool.. But that is of course just a prejudice i have.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you need to surround yourself with better programmers, then.
In my 11 years developing with PHP, I've gone through probably 15-20 editors. The ones I stuck with the longest:
- phpDesigner
- SublimeText
- TextMate
And now I do virtually everything in Aptana. It's an ugly IDE when you first load it up, but over the course of 2 years of serious tweaking it now is by far my favorite choice. I've torn a lot of the stuff out of it that I never use. The best part is I can switch from Ruby to Python to PHP development all in one IDE and it handles it all with ease.
Sidenote: I usually work on group projects with over 25,000 lines of code, not including libraries. In this environment, having a robust IDE is often a necessity in order to keep track of things.
Why not Notepad++ Adam?
[QUOTE=Funcoot;34997107]Why not Notepad++ Adam?[/QUOTE]
Notepad++ is a solid editor if you're on Windows, but it fails to impress when you put it next to the alternatives.
I moved from Notepad++ to Sublime 2 for the sole reason of having whitespace beyond where there is actually code. AKA being able to scroll down past the bottom of the code so that what you're doing isn't at the bottom of your screen, it's probably my favorite feature.
Why the hell are professionals told to use vim/np++ at work anyway? What are the benefits? Why the hell does the employer care anyway? Wasting 10Mb disk space?
Anyway, who really cares? If you like vi then good, go away. If you like netbeans, then good, go away.
If you code with notepad(not ++) then you're a retard and you probably couldn't go away if you tried.
I've always just used Dreamweaver for all my web programming needs, I can see it's obvious pitfalls but just haven't really bothered trying out others.
So fuck it. I'm downloading a load and trying them out to find out my preference cause I'm sure they're a lot more powerful.
And yeah there's no need to argue about which is 'best', this sorta thing comes down entirely to individuals preference.
[QUOTE=rookwood101;35065254]Why the hell are professionals told to use vim/np++ at work anyway? What are the benefits? Why the hell does the employer care anyway? Wasting 10Mb disk space?
Anyway, who really cares? If you like vi then good, go away. If you like netbeans, then good, go away.
If you code with notepad(not ++) then you're a retard and you probably couldn't go away if you tried.[/QUOTE]
I don't know of any employees "being told" they have to use editor x. If you're working as a nix sysadmin or any variation thereof, you absolutely must know your way around vi. If you're working as a developer, then use whatever, but whatever it is, you damn better know your way around it.
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