Web Development - WAYWO - #8

[commander204]

[QUOTE=Erasus;42743927]I see. Rails it is then, might give Sinatra a shot too. Might be a stupid question but should I go to Sinatra and then to Rails, will all of the terminology be the same?[/QUOTE]

They aren't really the same. Rails is build that everything you could need for a RESTful website is covered.

Sinatra is a lot more agnostic since you will have to do a bit more to get similar things.

If I am chosing between the two it always boils down to what I need. If I will just have two or three pages and some simple login stuff then sinatra is a lot faster to develop for.

Rails needs a bit more work but if you are making something bigger it pays off really.

(Once again, that's for me.)

[Erasus]

[QUOTE=TerabyteS_;42701410]Just closed my first real freelance project[/QUOTE]
Is it appropriate to ask how much you charged and over what time basis?

[editline]3rd November 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=commander204;42744201][/QUOTE]
I see. Thanks man

[supersnail11]

[QUOTE=Erasus;42743927]I see. Rails it is then, might give Sinatra a shot too. Might be a stupid question but should I go to Sinatra and then to Rails, will all of the terminology be the same?[/QUOTE]

If you don't know Ruby already, start with Sinatra. It's much easier to learn the language than with Rails. Once you feel like you know Ruby and Sinatra well enough, you can move on to Rails.

[Khub]

[QUOTE=Erasus;42742234]What exactly is wrong with PHP, I'm just starting to learn it, can someone direct me towards something else or possibly give me reasons why it sucks?[/QUOTE]

[url=http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/]If you're really interested in reasons why do some people dislike PHP, here you go.[/url]
He who wants to beat the dog always finds a stick to beat it with, though. Unless you're doing some really huge-scale project that'll require excellent performance, you're fine. The biggest problem with PHP you may encounter is that it's standard library is a huge mess, in the sense of function naming. You'll need to memorize a lot of functions and Google a lot meanwhile.

Edit: I am a PHP developer myself. I have yet to run into any issues. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. I am just too lazy to learn anything else because I'm happy with PHP as for now.

[asantos3]

Why not recommending Laravel? Python (with django or flask)? Nodejs?
C'mon, give the kiddo a bit more options than "php sucks use rails"...

[Coment]

[QUOTE=Khub;42745713][url=http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/]If you're really interested in reasons why do some people dislike PHP, here you go.[/url]

Edit: I am a PHP developer myself. I have yet to run into any issues. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. I am just too lazy to learn anything else because I'm happy with PHP as for now.[/QUOTE]

Might as well put [URL="http://forums.devshed.com/php-development-5/php-is-a-fractal-of-bad-design-hardly-929746.html"]this link too[/URL], which is someone's counterarguments to that list.

Although I agree on the rest of your post; I'm a PHP dev too, and my site hasn't exploded in tiny pieces. And this forum hasn't exploded either. It's all about how you use it.

[supersnail11]

If you like using PHP and hate using the alternatives, then by all means, use PHP. Most of those issues are bad for the developer, not for the end user, so for the most part you'll be OK as long as you tolerate those issues.

[CBastard]

Despite its flaws I still personally prefer PHP because of the syntax, the sheer number of useful built in functions and its ubiquity and, at least in this country for now employers want PHP developers.

We need a thread to contain this discussion because it keeps coming up again.

[Erasus]

Trying to install rails on windows 8 went down a treat (Not really)
So I tried to do it on linux.
This is my outcome of using "RVM Requirements".

[img]http://screencloud.net/img/screenshots/d8156f37cf38d3f94b47d9723b34aec7.png[/img]. Any help?

[Ac!dL3ak]

what is the result of `cat /home/tom/.rvm/log/1383521942/update_system.log`?

[KmartSqrl]

[QUOTE=Khub;42745713]Edit: I am a PHP developer myself. I have yet to run into any issues. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. I am just too lazy to learn anything else because I'm happy with PHP as for now.[/QUOTE]

Yes you have, you just aren't aware of them. This point from the "fractal of bad design" post is one of my biggest gripes with PHP:

[quote]
Chunks of the library are wildly inconsistent from one another.
- Underscore versus not: strpos/str_rot13, php_uname/phpversion, base64_encode/urlencode, gettype/get_class
- “to” versus 2: ascii2ebcdic, bin2hex, deg2rad, strtolower, strtotime
- Object+verb versus verb+object: base64_decode, str_shuffle, var_dump versus create_function, recode_string
- Argument order: array_filter($input, $callback) versus array_map($callback, $input), strpos($haystack, $needle) versus array_search($needle, $haystack)
- Prefix confusion: usleep versus microtime
- Case insensitive functions vary on where the i goes in the name.
- About half the array functions actually start with array_. The others do not.
htmlentities and html_entity_decode are inverses of each other, with completely different naming conventions.
[/quote]

That kind of inconsistency is a huge warning sign that the rest of the library is not well planned out or designed. There's no excuse for being that sloppy with something huge and public facing like PHP. Having to memorize this kind of shit on an individual basis and/or look something up every time you need to use it because you can remember if a function is called str_2_int, str2int, str_to_int or strtoint is a [I][B]huge[/B][/I] waste of developer time. I would bet money that any developer with equal experience in PHP and in Ruby will be more productive and work faster with Ruby.

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=CBastard;42747469]Despite its flaws I still personally prefer PHP because of the syntax, the sheer number of useful built in functions and its ubiquity and, at least in this country for now employers want PHP developers.[/QUOTE]

If you think PHP's standard library is one of it's highlights you [I]really[/I] haven't worked with enough other languages/libraries at length. Choosing PHP for employment is cool if you like maintaining legacy code. Most of the new tech companies that are actually doing exciting things are not using PHP. It's like fixing people's old busted volkswagens vs building race cars. (I know that there are some people doing great things with PHP, and I know that not [B]all[/B] PHP jobs are legacy maintenance work, but my work experience over the last few years has definitely reinforced those beliefs)

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

Really what it comes down to is that if you are using PHP and doing good things with it, that's cool. You've found a tool that works for you and that you can be productive in. I don't think that means you should just stop trying new tools. I would laugh at a carpenter who tries to build a whole house with a hand saw and a hammer when he could be using a table saw and a nail gun, but isn't because he was too lazy to figure out how to use them or never used them long enough to see the real benefits.

I find that a lot of people who are super zealous about "OMG PHP IS GREAT I DONT WANT TO LEARN ANYTHING ELSE" are either too lazy to try out better tools (which is a disgusting attitude for a web dev to have in the first place) or they just haven't been exposed to better tools enough to really grok the benefits yet. Web devs often learn PHP first because that's what they hear about first. If you never explore beyond that you are absolutely selling yourself short.

[Erasus]

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;42748829]what is the result of `cat /home/tom/.rvm/log/1383521942/update_system.log`?[/QUOTE]
Just basically errors, some 404's.
"rvm_error "There has been error while updating 'apt-get', please give it some time and try again later"

Does anybody know of a reliable way to install rails correctly on linux?

I can get the initial homepage to work for ruby on localhost:3000 on win8. As soon as anything to do with rails is involved though there is nothing to be done.

[KmartSqrl]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42755053]PHP blah blah blah...[/QUOTE]

Also, it's worth noting that there are some REALLY awesome tools out there that use ruby but aren't part of your actual application (I.E.: you could use them with a PHP project and still really really benefit from them). So learning Ruby is a good idea even if you are going to be masochistic and keep using PHP :P

Chef for server configuration management (if you are manually setting up your VPSes by sshing in and installing things, you are doing it wrong and wasting lots of your time every time you need to set up a new box or add another box to a cluster)

Capistrano for application deployment (if you are using FTP to deploy, you're behind the times to, unless you're just doing PHP on a shared host, but even then being able to deploy with git has advantages, and being able to automate your deployment process is [B]always[/B] good)

[manolis]

I've started making a theme for my game server's forum, what do you guys think?

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/21do95h.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/9kpi68.png[/IMG]

[MuffinZerg]

[QUOTE=Coffeee;42757417]I've started making a theme for my game server's forum, what do you guys think?

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/21do95h.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/9kpi68.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Choose either flat ui or glossy ui. Don't mix them.

[manolis]

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;42757482]Choose either flat ui or glossy ui. Don't mix them.[/QUOTE]

Snip, I'm an idiot.

[Erasus]

Looks good Coffeee.

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

God damn. The fact that I can't even install Rails on Win8/Linux is so demotivating. Sucks man.

[russelg]

[QUOTE=Erasus;42757564]Looks good Coffeee.

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

God damn. The fact that I can't even install Rails on Win8/Linux is so demotivating. Sucks man.[/QUOTE]

thats a bad idea to begin with

[Erasus]

How come?

[KmartSqrl]

[QUOTE=Erasus;42758907]How come?[/QUOTE]

Windows sucks for Ruby dev. Some gems use c extensions to speed up some things that they do, and since windows has no package manager you can't just do 'sudo apt-get install lib<whatever>-dev' or 'brew install <whatever>' to have the c libs ready to go before the gem is installed. I would absolutely get a linux VM to use for Ruby (although I would recommend that even if ruby was fun to use on windows because making sure you have good production/development parity is a huge time saver)

[peep]

did an fper make volafile

[TehWhale]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42755053]That kind of inconsistency is a huge warning sign that the rest of the library is not well planned out or designed. There's no excuse for being that sloppy with something huge and public facing like PHP. Having to memorize this kind of shit on an individual basis and/or look something up every time you need to use it because you can remember if a function is called str_2_int, str2int, str_to_int or strtoint is a [I][B]huge[/B][/I] waste of developer time. I would bet money that any developer with equal experience in PHP and in Ruby will be more productive and work faster with Ruby.[/QUOTE]After working as a PHP developer, professionally, for almost a year I can really agree with this. I have to look up some of the functions you mentioned [i]a lot[/i] because of inconsistencies in the language. I do some legacy maintenance but I also do build new and exciting websites with fantastic frameworks in PHP. I think it all balances out in the end.

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

I should note that I [b]love[/b] ruby and try to use it in my free time, but my job doesn't use or require it at the moment.

[shodan]

[QUOTE=/dev/sda1;42759063]did an fper make volafile[/QUOTE]

Some guy from /g/ did.
bbaka and system made it.

[Khub]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42755053]Yes you have, you just aren't aware of them. This point from the "fractal of bad design" post is one of my biggest gripes with PHP.
- more content snip-[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your reply. I think you made me want actually try Ruby out.
I've been aware of Ruby's existence for quite a long time, but I've never really dared to install and check it out due to all the people complaining about installation issues. Additionally, it seems to be a terrible idea to install it on Windows, and I've been only working with Windows so far - despite the few minutes I've spent working on Ubuntu booted from my USB pendrive while rescuing data from computers with corrupted Windows installs. Another issue is that there's generally a ton of free hosting services that support PHP, but I don't know a single one that supports Ruby. Those are my primary reasons for not trying Ruby just yet.

What Linux distribution should I install on my computer to get started in Ruby with, as a complete Linux rookie?
Are there any quality and stable free / low-priced Ruby hosting services?

[MuffinZerg]

[QUOTE=Khub;42763706]Thank you for your reply. I think you made me want actually try Ruby out.
I've been aware of Ruby's existence for quite a long time, but I've never really dared to install and check it out due to all the people complaining about installation issues. Additionally, it seems to be a terrible idea to install it on Windows, and I've been only working with Windows so far - despite the few minutes I've spent working on Ubuntu booted from my USB pendrive while rescuing data from computers with corrupted Windows installs. Another issue is that there's generally a ton of free hosting services that support PHP, but I don't know a single one that supports Ruby. Those are my primary reasons for not trying Ruby just yet.

What Linux distribution should I install on my computer to get started in Ruby with, as a complete Linux rookie?
Are there any quality and stable free / low-priced Ruby hosting services?[/QUOTE]

[url]www.nitrous.io[/url]

Click 3 buttons (Ruby on Rails is your way to go) and it's done. No need for VMs or anything.

[PhoebeU]

Finally started to work on my portfolio website

[t]http://superkipje.com/images/57487781770613560102.png[/t]

[URL="https://pingaling.eu/up/port/"]https://pingaling.eu/up/port/[/URL]

[vladka24]

Working on a free donation system for people in need of one.

[QUOTE][IMG]http://gyazo.com/c3c7ede77cc242bd25c20269d8bb630c.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[j4NZKUE]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42755053]Yes you have, you just aren't aware of them. This point from the "fractal of bad design" post is one of my biggest gripes with PHP:

That kind of inconsistency is a huge warning sign that the rest of the library is not well planned out or designed. There's no excuse for being that sloppy with something huge and public facing like PHP. Having to memorize this kind of shit on an individual basis and/or look something up every time you need to use it because you can remember if a function is called str_2_int, str2int, str_to_int or strtoint is a [I][B]huge[/B][/I] waste of developer time. I would bet money that any developer with equal experience in PHP and in Ruby will be more productive and work faster with Ruby.

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

If you think PHP's standard library is one of it's highlights you [I]really[/I] haven't worked with enough other languages/libraries at length. Choosing PHP for employment is cool if you like maintaining legacy code. Most of the new tech companies that are actually doing exciting things are not using PHP. It's like fixing people's old busted volkswagens vs building race cars. (I know that there are some people doing great things with PHP, and I know that not [B]all[/B] PHP jobs are legacy maintenance work, but my work experience over the last few years has definitely reinforced those beliefs)

[editline]4th November 2013[/editline]

Really what it comes down to is that if you are using PHP and doing good things with it, that's cool. You've found a tool that works for you and that you can be productive in. I don't think that means you should just stop trying new tools. I would laugh at a carpenter who tries to build a whole house with a hand saw and a hammer when he could be using a table saw and a nail gun, but isn't because he was too lazy to figure out how to use them or never used them long enough to see the real benefits.

I find that a lot of people who are super zealous about "OMG PHP IS GREAT I DONT WANT TO LEARN ANYTHING ELSE" are either too lazy to try out better tools (which is a disgusting attitude for a web dev to have in the first place) or they just haven't been exposed to better tools enough to really grok the benefits yet. Web devs often learn PHP first because that's what they hear about first. If you never explore beyond that you are absolutely selling yourself short.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the best short explanation I heard about php! installing ruby today :) any tutorials/good links or free ebooks?

[KmartSqrl]

[QUOTE=Khub;42763706]Thank you for your reply. I think you made me want actually try Ruby out.
I've been aware of Ruby's existence for quite a long time, but I've never really dared to install and check it out due to all the people complaining about installation issues. Additionally, it seems to be a terrible idea to install it on Windows, and I've been only working with Windows so far - despite the few minutes I've spent working on Ubuntu booted from my USB pendrive while rescuing data from computers with corrupted Windows installs. Another issue is that there's generally a ton of free hosting services that support PHP, but I don't know a single one that supports Ruby. Those are my primary reasons for not trying Ruby just yet.

What Linux distribution should I install on my computer to get started in Ruby with, as a complete Linux rookie?
Are there any quality and stable free / low-priced Ruby hosting services?[/QUOTE]

I like Ubuntu, but you can use whatever you want really. As far as free ruby hosting goes, heroku.com is kind of king for that right now. It's a really cool platform too, will definitely be different than what you're used to with PHP though. When I am doing something that isn't just a quick project I like to do my own VPS set up though because you get a lot more flexibility down the line.

[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=j4NZKUE;42766986]Thanks for the best short explanation I heard about php! installing ruby today :) any tutorials/good links or free ebooks?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-rails-tutorial-book[/url] is amazing for learning Rails. There's a lot of great learning resources out there for learning Ruby too. The ruby community almost has an obsession with education on the language so there are tons of resources. Codecademy wouldn't be a bad way to start learning ruby.

[Ac!dL3ak]

I actually created a VM for VirtualBox that has Ruby set up (Sublime installed, etc.). It's 4 GB, though, so [url=http://drderp.me:8080/cat/odyssey.ova]try not to kill my server[/url].

[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]

oh, and the password for homer is ZAQ!@WSX