Web Development - WAYWO - #8 - Developers

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42855562]That's a [B]horrible[/B] attitude for an employee to have. You should always want to work as efficiently as possible, because if you're not doing that, you're wasting the business' time and money. [editline]13th November 2013[/editline] Because nothing you write on your own will be even remotely as high quality and battle tested as something like Rails that has been around for 10 years and has contributions from over 3500 different people. Frameworks provide a system for you to build off of so that you can focus on writing your application instead of the boilerplate to support it. They are also nice because they promote/enforce conventions which is [B]very[/B] useful to have when you are working with other developers. Coding is fun. Writing a user login system 100 times is not fun. You're needlessly reinventing the wheel and I guarantee that the quality of your work is suffering because of it.[/QUOTE] i haven't noticed any difference, if at all i'm getting better at it why treat everything like some professional shit? you have one life, spend it the best way you can

[QUOTE=Giraffen93;42859221]i haven't noticed any difference, if at all i'm getting better at it why treat everything like some professional shit? you have one life, spend it the best way you can[/QUOTE] If this is a skill you want then you ought to learn it properly, otherwise you'll end up with a hobby.

[QUOTE=CBastard;42859501]If this is a skill you want then you ought to learn it properly, otherwise you'll end up with a hobby.[/QUOTE] i already have a full time job, my head is full already, starting to forget my programming stuff

So i started op my old community again and just made a quick website, just to have something. [URL="http://blog.gamestate.dk/media/pic/-5308389728320738303.jpg"][IMG]http://blog.gamestate.dk/media/picforum/-5308389728320738303.jpg[/IMG][/URL] But now it's time to make a new version. here is how it looks so far [URL="http://blog.gamestate.dk/media/pic/-5838208301525873663.jpg"][IMG]http://blog.gamestate.dk/media/picforum/-5838208301525873663.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42855562]Coding is fun. Writing a user login system 100 times is not fun. You're needlessly reinventing the wheel and I guarantee that the quality of your work is suffering because of it.[/QUOTE] Just because it's been written before doesn't mean you are writing it '100 times'. If you do not have a time limit it's much more enjoyable to write your own code, albeit it may not be as 'good' or as 'secure' but you learn that over time with it. And that last part of your sentence is a bit stupid. I can write much cleaner code now, than if I tried to dive into a framework head first and do the same thing in there. I prefer to know 100% what is in my code, I know this isn't how everyone feels, but I prefer it this way.

[QUOTE=kragmars102;42850992]I like it, however, I'd brighten the grey content area a bit more. It looks a bit dull compared to the colorful elements.[/QUOTE] I agree, I've changed the gray so it looks a lot brighter now! Looks a lot better, thank you. [url]https://pingaling.eu/up/port/[/url]

[QUOTE=Giraffen93;42859564]i already have a full time job, my head is full already, starting to forget my programming stuff[/QUOTE] Maybe your head is full of stuff that frameworks make trivial to implement? Forget the easy stuff and learn new exciting hard stuff!

-snip-

[QUOTE=rieda1589;42860953]Maybe your head is full of stuff that frameworks make trivial to implement? Forget the easy stuff and learn new exciting hard stuff![/QUOTE] no, i can't hold much in my head at the same time, that's why i only do webdev i can forget stuff in minutes

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42853534]Something cool enough to make me choose it over the tons of other MVC frameworks that are already out there and established[/QUOTE] Those are the kinda features I want to implement, I just don't know what they are.

[QUOTE=Snakess;42860644]Just because it's been written before doesn't mean you are writing it '100 times'.[/QUOTE] The person I was replying to said that all he copies over is his PDO class, meaning things like user accounts [I]are[/I] being rewritten over and over. You're taking what I'm saying out of context. [QUOTE=Snakess;42860644]If you do not have a time limit it's much more enjoyable to write your own code, albeit it may not be as 'good' or as 'secure' but you learn that over time with it.[/QUOTE] Not wanting to write a user registration system for the 20th time does not mean you're not writing your own code. Developing is fun, but shipping things is even more fun, and it's totally a waste of time to repeatedly solve problems that have already been solved. I want to solve new problems. Don't get me wrong, I was there at one point in my development career too, but I wish someone would have tried to grind this stuff in to my head sooner because I would have saved a lot of time and built a lot more cool stuff. [QUOTE=Snakess;42860644]And that last part of your sentence is a bit stupid. I can write much cleaner code now, than if I tried to dive into a framework head first and do the same thing in there. I prefer to know 100% what is in my code, I know this isn't how everyone feels, but I prefer it this way.[/QUOTE] There's a big difference between diving headfirst in to a framework and taking the time to actually learn the framework and use it properly (which is obviously what you should do). Using a framework doesn't preclude you from knowing what is in your code. It just shrinks the amount of the code that is "your" code. If you want to know how your framework of choice is doing something, crack open the source and look for yourself, that's not particularly difficult, and the "I didn't write it so I can't use it!!!! I need to know all my code 100%" attitude just sounds like a case of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here]Not invented here syndrome[/url]. Like i said before, I would be incredibly skeptical of any individual developer who thinks they're going to build something more effective than (to use my previous example) Rails, that has been around in production on large sites for 10 years with contributions from thousands of developers. It's simple math really, lots of the more popular frameworks have had thousands upon thousands of hours of work put into them, which just isn't realistic for an individual developer to match every time they start a new project. There's also the fact that whatever you are building is probably not [I]incredibly[/I] unique, in the sense that problems that you run in to have been run in to and solved by other people already. If I want to add pagination to a rails app, I install a gem, change one line of code, add another line to my template, and then write some CSS to style the pagination, then I can move on to working on more interesting things. [editline]14th November 2013[/editline] I would honestly go as far as saying that anyone who doesn't see the value in a framework and always chooses not to use one has never sat down and worked with one enough to see the real benefit of it. I did the same thing at first, but when you really take the time to get to know a framework and see how much time it can save you, it's like having someone switch a lightbulb on in your head. [editline]14th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Giraffen93;42861096]no, i can't hold much in my head at the same time, that's why i only do webdev i can forget stuff in minutes[/QUOTE] Properly learning a framework would actually significantly alleviate that problem lol... [editline]14th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Dorkslayz;42861397]Those are the kinda features I want to implement, I just don't know what they are.[/QUOTE] It'd be cool to see some non-MVC stuff ([url=http://www.peej.co.uk/articles/rmr-architecture.html]RMR[/url] is not [I]vastly[/I] different, but still piques my interest) Something that makes building basic admin CRUD as close to automatic as possible would be rad too, but that could be tough to get right and still stay flexible enough to be part of a framework. You'd sort of be walking the line between framework and CMS at that point (which could be awesome if it was done right)

[QUOTE=Superkipje;42860847]I agree, I've changed the gray so it looks a lot brighter now! Looks a lot better, thank you. [url]https://pingaling.eu/up/port/[/url][/QUOTE] I think the social network icons need a hover effect. A bright version of the icons on hover could do well I suppose. You should also add some bottom margin for the collapsible headers' container, to prevent [url=http://i.imgur.com/Bul6Vvy.png]this[/url] from happening (I opened them all and scrolled down) – it looks weird for me.

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42861831] It'd be cool to see some non-MVC stuff ([url=http://www.peej.co.uk/articles/rmr-architecture.html]RMR[/url] is not [I]vastly[/I] different, but still piques my interest) Something that makes building basic admin CRUD as close to automatic as possible would be rad too, but that could be tough to get right and still stay flexible enough to be part of a framework. You'd sort of be walking the line between framework and CMS at that point (which could be awesome if it was done right)[/QUOTE] One of the things I have tried to do is make MySQL/Memcache CRUD quite easy, as in it's a single function call and it's all done. The function connects, executes and then disconnects (or for the GET function, connects, grabs data, disconnects and then returns).

[QUOTE=Dorkslayz;42863008]One of the things I have tried to do is make MySQL/Memcache CRUD quite easy, as in it's a single function call and it's all done. The function connects, executes and then disconnects (or for the GET function, connects, grabs data, disconnects and then returns).[/QUOTE] If you're building an MVC framework you should definitely have some sort of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping]ORM[/url] (in Rails this would be ActiveRecord) I'd dig an MVC framework with a good implementation of the [url=http://martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/dataMapper.html]data mapper[/url] pattern so that all the models you actively work with in the framework are plain old (ruby/php/whatever) objects that don't handle persisting themselves. That potentially makes doing automated testing a lot faster because the objects that hold your business logic (your models) aren't directly coupled to your persistence system.

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42863720]If you're building an MVC framework you should definitely have some sort of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping]ORM[/url] (in Rails this would be ActiveRecord) I'd dig an MVC framework with a good implementation of the [url=http://martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/dataMapper.html]data mapper[/url] pattern so that all the models you actively work with in the framework are plain old (ruby/php/whatever) objects that don't handle persisting themselves. That potentially makes doing automated testing a lot faster because the objects that hold your business logic (your models) aren't directly coupled to your persistence system.[/QUOTE] Explain what you mean by persistence? At the moment models can take one of two forms: either a JSON object (that specifies the data itself, or where to get the data from - database, file, etc) or PHP class (which has functions that can be referenced within the view).

[QUOTE=Dorkslayz;42863811]Explain what you mean by persistence? At the moment models can take one of two forms: either a JSON object (that specifies the data itself, or where to get the data from - database, file, etc) or PHP class (which has functions that can be referenced within the view).[/QUOTE] Persistence as in actually saving the data to the database or filesystem or whatever you are using to store model data.

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42864143]Persistence as in actually saving the data to the database or filesystem or whatever you are using to store model data.[/QUOTE] So, you mean once the data has been changed - saving it back to it's source?

[QUOTE=Dorkslayz;42864321]So, you mean once the data has been changed - saving it back to it's source?[/QUOTE] Yeah pretty much. Here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_(computer_science)[/url] :)

[QUOTE=Giraffen93;42861096]no, i can't hold much in my head at the same time, that's why i only do webdev i can forget stuff in minutes[/QUOTE] Amazing how you can consistently get on my nerves with every single one of your replies - You're constantly getting constructive input and pushing it aside in lieu of your half-assed excuses. "oh my head is full" "oh i forget things quick" "oh bla bee bla dee bla" Bull. shit.

[QUOTE=StinkyJoe;42865478]Amazing how you can consistently get on my nerves with every single one of your replies - You're constantly getting constructive input and pushing it aside in lieu of your half-assed excuses. "oh my head is full" "oh i forget things quick" "oh bla bee bla dee bla" Bull. shit.[/QUOTE] am i pushing it aside? didn't notice but seriously, i can't hold a lot of stuff at once in my head, period. wait... i really don't get it people accuse me of not listening and making excuses? i haven't even said anything

[QUOTE=Superkipje;42860847]I agree, I've changed the gray so it looks a lot brighter now! Looks a lot better, thank you. [url]https://pingaling.eu/up/port/[/url][/QUOTE] Did you base that style from something or did you make it from your own mind?

You should probably believe him guys. I once learnt how a quicksort works and then forgot how to wipe my own ass.

[QUOTE=Jelly;42869493]You should probably believe him guys. I once learnt how a quicksort works and then forgot how to wipe my own ass.[/QUOTE] That happened to me when I learned how to do a jumping jack.

[QUOTE=Moofy;42869425]Did you base that style from something or did you make it from your own mind?[/QUOTE] I didn't make up everything up by myself no, I did get some inspiration of other things.

[QUOTE=Superkipje;42869928]I didn't make up everything up by myself no, I did get some inspiration of other things.[/QUOTE] Yea, I was about to say it looks a lot like [URL="http://themeforest.net/item/shiftcv-blog-resume-portfolio-wordpress/full_screen_preview/5150965"]this[/URL]. :v: [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] Which is not bad at all, I still like your site!

[QUOTE=Moofy;42869985]Yea, I was about to say it looks a lot like [URL="http://themeforest.net/item/shiftcv-blog-resume-portfolio-wordpress/full_screen_preview/5150965"]this[/URL]. :v:[/QUOTE] That's true! That's actually the main inspiration as it's rather obvious, duh. I'm trying not to copy it completely and give my own spin on it. I'm not a designer sadly so to make a design up completely by myself is rather difficult for me. I hope that my skills in design will increase over the time. I did write the website completely by myself, I didn't copy code or whatever. Another one I also took some inspiration from is [URL="http://themeforest.net/item/dash-modern-resume-template-psd-/5437383"]this one[/URL] but mostly it's from the one you linked.

[QUOTE=Superkipje;42870024]That's true! That's actually the main inspiration as it's rather obvious, duh. I'm trying not to copy it completely and give my own spin on it. I'm not a designer sadly so to make a design up completely by myself is rather difficult for me. I hope that my skills in design will increase over the time. I did write the website completely by myself, I didn't copy code or whatever. Another one I also took some inspiration from is [URL="http://themeforest.net/item/dash-modern-resume-template-psd-/5437383"]this one[/URL] but mostly it's from the one you linked.[/QUOTE] There's nothing wrong to "copy" a design for minor changes, problem mostly is when you do it people tend to say you're not a real designer (where I come from at least) - however I just see it as inspiration, and why not make a variant of a theme or something if you like it just with your own changes? So yea, I get your point.

Shipping updates to two projects I work on for my 9-5 AND a big update for one of my freelance clients two days before I'm on vacation in Europe for two weeks is awesome and scary at the same time. [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] [B]WEB DEVELOPER PSA:[/B] If you're not using something like this, you're a dunce! [url]https://rollbar.com/[/url] Rollbar is fucking awwwwwesome. Any Exceptions (Errors) that happen in my Rails apps get sent to rollbar along with a stack trace and other useful information about the error. It also watches for and reports on javascript errors that any users browsers encounter in the same way. It tracks my deploys as well and will point out which deploy an error started showing up at so you know where to start looking.

err, that kind of sounds like newrelic and airbrake...

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;42878934]err, that kind of sounds like newrelic and airbrake...[/QUOTE] It is like airbrake but I like this more. Airbrake doesn't even send me email alerts half the time.