Programming - WAYWO - V.37

[acpm]

genuinely, i'm upset. why would you go on posting about that sort of stuff, dude? this is a really supportive thread normally, and there wasn't any reason for it

my post was a response to this:

[QUOTE=chimitos;40019885]Poll time:

[IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/IMG] - you would be, but school/work/life is sucking up all of your free time.[/QUOTE]

"Also you shouldn't be upset that you can't post about projects you've decided to be proprietary. That's your fault." i was upset because other people were taking up my time, not because of ownership of projects or needing to keep things secretive

[Jookia]

[QUOTE=acpm;40028429]genuinely, i'm upset

why would you go on posting about that sort of stuff, dude? this is a really supportive thread normally, and there wasn't any reason for it

"Also you shouldn't be upset that you can't post about projects you've decided to be proprietary. That's your fault."

i was upset because other people were taking up my time, not because of ownership of projects or needing to keep things secretive[/QUOTE]

I'm really sorry man. I didn't mean to come off as attacking your project or to upset you.

The way that you wrote it implied it was your option that your software was proprietary, and that you were upset that you couldn't post because of this. I just found this humorous, and wrote that expecting the usual bitter response I'd get from writing something blunt.

[acpm]

its okay

[backwardspy]

now kiss

[acpm]

just no tongue

[DrLuckyLuke]

For a second there I thought I was in the gay chat thread

[krix_]

[QUOTE=DrLuckyLuke;40028578]For a second there I thought I was in the gay chat thread[/QUOTE]

Freakin' bookmarks all having the same icon, eh?

[DarkCybo7]

[QUOTE=krix;40028779]Freakin' bookmarks all having the same icon, eh?[/QUOTE]

somebody get the fire department

[DrLuckyLuke]

[QUOTE=krix;40028779]Freakin' bookmarks all having the same icon, eh?[/QUOTE]

God damn it

[stringy]

The only time I've wished software was open sourced was when the only version available was linked to an older version of a library than are in my distros repos and I have to either symlink a (quite possibly non-backwards-compatible) library or retrieve/compile the library (or often libraries) myself; binaries are a pain if they aren't statically linked or part of a common package management system.

[editline]24th March 2013[/editline]

Almost content, I came up with a computer/math-centric playing card game (riveting, I know) and played a few games with my friends who seemed to like it. I threw together a prototype of the core game in python and am wondering whether to use GTK or Qt for the GUI. Any preferences in this thread? Also it needs to be networked, but I've never networked anything before.

[Jookia]

I am working on my 'copying.txt' file that delves in to licensing sections of my application's source code. Could anybody give me any tips on this? I have this so far:

------------------------------
Table of Contents

Sections
Copyright
Licensing

------------------------------
Sections

Before we go any further in to detailing the copyright status let's define the
sections of the source tree, relative to this readme.

Documentation:
  ./copying.txt
  ./hacking.txt
  ./plan.txt
  ./readme.txt
  ./todo.txt
  ./translating.txt

The Application: ./
The Tests Application: ./tests/

Application-Relative Terms:
  Source Code: ./source/*
  
  Build Scripts:
    ./CMakeLists.txt
    ./cmake/*
  
  Translations: ./lang/*
  Data: ./data/*

------------------------------
Copyright

Documentation is Copyright 2011 - 2013 Jookia.

In the context of The Application:
  It's Source Code is Copyright 2011 - 2013 Jookia.
  It's Build Scripts are Copyright 2011 - 2013 Jookia.
  
  It's 'ugh.po' Translation is Copyright 2011 - 2013 Jookia.

In the context of The Tests Application:
  It's Source Code is Copyright 2012 - 2013 Jookia.
  It's Build Scripts are Copyright 2012 - 2013 Jookia.
  It's Data is Copyright 2012 - 2013 Jookia.
  
  It's 'en.po' Translation is Copyright 2012 - 2013 Jookia.
  It's 'Uｎ𝓲𝐜σd͢é.po' Translation is Copyright 2012 - 2013 Jookia.

------------------------------
Licensing

All Source Code is under the GNU GPL version 3 or later.
Vist http://opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license for a copy of said license.

All Build Scripts are licensed under the zlib license.
Vist http://opensource.org/licenses/Zlib for a copy of said license.

All Translations and Data are licensed under the CC-BY-SA license.
Vist http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ for a copy of said license.

[zenby]

[QUOTE=acpm;40020180][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ADQxpJ9.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Every time I see this I read it as Let the Korean Speak, which was especially confusing when I though it was for the German software company

[acpm]

Yeah, I'm not sure why my client wanted to go with the alternative spelling rather than Quran or Qur'an, but I think it might have to do with an existing entity being named similar or something. I don't know, really.

[redx475]

[QUOTE=Rayjingstorm;40028956]
Almost content, I came up with a computer/math-centric playing card game (riveting, I know) and played a few games with my friends who seemed to like it. I threw together a prototype of the core game in python and am wondering whether to use GTK or Qt for the GUI. Any preferences in this thread? Also it needs to be networked, but I've never networked anything before.[/QUOTE]

Personally I like Qt, as it has a hell of a lot of really nice utility classes in addition to the GUI classes. Also, I believe it has a fairly simple networking module. I haven't played with it much, but you can find it here: [url]http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qtnetwork.html[/url]

[lavacano]

[QUOTE=Rayjingstorm;40028956]whether to use GTK or Qt for the GUI. Any preferences in this thread?[/QUOTE]

I prefer Qt, but that's because I can cheat by doing my actual layout and shit in Qt Designer, then doing this:

from PyQt4 import QtCore, QtGui, uic
qapp = QtGui.QApplication(sys.argv)
qapp.setWindowIcon(if_i_have_one)
qwin = QtGui.QDialog() # or whatever you set in Designer

# here's the cheat-y part
qui = uic.loadUi("uifile.ui", qwin)

and bam, half my work done. If I need to move a button around? Open the ui file in Designer, and bam no change to the actual code. Add a button? No problem. It'll just sit there until I implement its function in code.

[Tamschi]

[QUOTE=acpm;40030187]Yeah, I'm not sure why my client wanted to go with the alternative spelling rather than Quran or Qur'an, but I think it might have to do with an existing entity being named similar or something. I don't know, really.[/QUOTE]

It's the default spelling here. Still doesn't make sense, unless the rest of the project is in German.

[QUOTE=Jookia;40029034]-copying.txt-[/QUOTE]

"It[B]'[/B]s" is not a pronoun.

Edit: Using the CC-BY-SA together with the GPL like that is a cool idea, I'll remember it for when I actually release a compiled version of one of my projects.

Edit: I normally would expect the Sections part to be called Definitions instead, at least that's what CC and GPL use as heading.

[Lexic]

[QUOTE=Jookia;40028156]Commercial software and proprietary software are two different things, neither mutually exclusive or interchangeable. In this very quote you've acted as if FOSS and commercial software are mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE]

It basically is though? Unless your software has non-free elements (encrypted content, a web service or a premium rate support line) that it's impossible to use without, people will casually 'steal' (though obviously since it's 'free' it's not stealing!) your product and not bother to pay you anything.

[dije]

Doing some GLSL raytracing tests:
[t]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41041550/Coding/C%23/OGLFV/sphere_traced.PNG[/t]

[editline]25th March 2013[/editline]

More spheres:
[t]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41041550/Coding/C%23/OGLFV/spheres.PNG[/t]

[Tamschi]

[QUOTE=Lexic;40031234]It basically is though? Unless your software has non-free elements (encrypted content, a web service or a premium rate support line) that it's impossible to use without, people will casually 'steal' (though obviously since it's 'free' it's not stealing!) your product and not bother to pay you anything.[/QUOTE]

I've seen an open source project charge a small fee for the Windows binary download (it's free from the package repository on Linux), it's most likely at least somewhat viable, as the target audience of musicians on Windows is unlikely to compile it themselves.

I agree, it would be very difficult to sell FOSS software unless you manage to be commissioned for it in the first place or you only target software companies that can't live without support line.

[ECrownofFire]

Some people just have their software be FOSS but they sell tech support and extra services (Canonical with Ubuntu, for example).

I could also see some company selling servers for something, I guess?

[bobthe2lol]

I was looking around for a noise generation python lib. but couldn't find one that wasn't from 2001. So I made one myself, using the concept of octaves. I generate progressively larger bits of noise, where each octave has a smaller amplitude than the last, and scale them up to full size using bicubic scaling, and then add all of the scaled octaves into one resulting noisemap. There seem to be some annoying artifacts, and the whole part where it generates the same noisemap each time (even though I seed the random number generator manually...?), but have a look:

20 octaves:
[IMG]http://puu.sh/2nE66[/IMG]

120 octaves:
[IMG]http://puu.sh/2nE7i[/IMG]

The code, if anyone wants to give me any suggesions, that'd be cool.

from random import random as rand
import random
import numpy
from PIL import Image
from time import time as ostime


class Noise:


    def __init__(self,size,octaves):
        self.size = size
        self.octaves = octaves
        random.seed(ostime())
        print ostime()
        self.generate()


    def generate(self):
        print "Generating"
        result = numpy.zeros((self.size,self.size))
        for octave in range(1,self.octaves+1):
            #print "Octave: "+str(octave)+", "+"(float(1)/max((("+str(self.octaves)+"+1)-"+str(octave)+"),1))*"+str(self.size)
            limit = (float(1)/max(((self.octaves+1)-octave),1))*self.size #is this formula correct?
            print "Limit: "+str(limit)
            octaveMap = numpy.zeros((limit,limit))
            for y in range(0,int(limit)):
                for x in range(0,int(limit)):
                    rnd = rand()
                    try:
                        octaveMap[x,y] = (rnd*(float(1)/octave)) #is 1/octave correct here? I want this to append smaller numbers as octaves go up
                    except:
                        print "Rnd: "+str(rnd)
            if int(limit) is not int(self.size):
                resmap = Noise.scale((octaveMap*255).astype(int),self.size,int(limit))/float(255)
                result = result + resmap
            else:
                result = result + octaveMap
        self.map = result


    def get(self,pos):
        return self.map[pos[0],pos[1]]


    @staticmethod
    def scale(themap,size,oldsize):
        print "Scaling from "+str(oldsize)+" to "+str(size)
        nparr = numpy.array(themap)
        oldimg = Image.frombuffer("L",(oldsize,oldsize),nparr,'raw',"L",0,1)
        bigger = oldimg.resize((size,size),Image.BILINEAR)
        return numpy.array(bigger)

[B]
Success!!

[/B][IMG]http://puu.sh/2nEQo[/IMG]

[danharibo]

[QUOTE=Lexic;40031234]It basically is though? Unless your software has non-free elements (encrypted content, a web service or a premium rate support line) that it's impossible to use without, people will casually 'steal' (though obviously since it's 'free' it's not stealing!) your product and not bother to pay you anything.[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of options for making money using free software, like Tamschi said it's possible to charge for distribution. If you're not looking to make a large ammount of money you could fish for donations. There's also the enterprise model where you charge (extortionate) ammounts for support for the product. None of these things make your program "non-free".

And of course distributing the data under a different license is also an option, and could potentially be rather viable.

[bobthe2lol]

Awesome, making progress! The drawing now uses a system involving "coroutines" (a function with a yield in it) so it won't ever lag when doing big drawing operations any more. Instead all draw actions are added to the queue, and processed about 500 at a time, giving control back to the UI after each batch so no lag is expierenced. The processing itself can be a bit slow, but only if the map has a 1:1 pixel ratio. Usually I set it to 4 or 8, that's why things look more blocky.

[IMG]http://puu.sh/2nFAq[/IMG]

[Lexic]

I did mention the premium support since "The product is 'a bit' difficult to use, but don't worry since support available for only $19.99 per call!" seems to be a fairly popular pattern.
Also available is what Automattic have done with WordPress: Open source the thing but then offer free hosting and a shitton of other free systems and bathe in juicy web analytics. (And premium hosting too but I'm sure that's just the cherry on the top)

[esalaka]

I was just thinking: If you made a program, GPL'd it and sold it (as binary packages, as the GPL allows you to only provide source code upon request as well IIRC), how many people would actually figure out it's licensed under the GPL? And how many people would utilise this to redistribute the thing for free?

I mean, if you sold a GPL'd program, would it affect the amount of people sharing it on something like TPB at all, or would it actually just not matter in the slightest with the exception that the copies being shared would be legal?

[editline]25th March 2013[/editline]

And I'm not talking about tech-savvy people who probably have heard at least a bit of rms and the FSF, I mean the general public

[backwardspy]

I made some particles as part of a university assignment. (my skills are clearly being put to good use.)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv-bB76GFmc[/media]

[Jookia]

[QUOTE=Lexic;40031234]It basically is though? Unless your software has non-free elements (encrypted content, a web service or a premium rate support line) that it's impossible to use without, people will casually 'steal' (though obviously since it's 'free' it's not stealing!) your product and not bother to pay you anything.[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen any instances of what you're actually talking about, but I have seen the contrary. Look at Jason Rohrer's 'Sleep is Death' and other games. Their entirety are under the public domain, yet he made good money.
I'd like to put this down to people just not caring that games are free software, because they're gamers and don't care about legal or under the hood stuff.
I know I could proletarianize the actual data of my application and sell that, which is one plan if this doesn't work out.

But at a different level, I'm trying to be the 'anti EA' or whatever, because I'm pretty pissed that buying games these days means you only buy a 'right' to use it that can be terminated at any time. When people buying my game, they own it in its entirety since that's what they've paid for. Maybe this would be an excuse to have a little higher prices?

The model I'm going for is that people buy my applications, and know the money goes towards making what they've paid for better in the future. Otherwise they'd have to get off their lazy ass and do it themselves.

[Dlaor-guy]

[QUOTE=Jookia;40028454]I'm really sorry man. I didn't mean to come off as attacking your project or to upset you.

The way that you wrote it implied it was your option that your software was proprietary, and that you were upset that you couldn't post because of this. I just found this humorous, and wrote that expecting the usual bitter response I'd get from writing something blunt.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=acpm;40028464]its okay[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Chris220;40028477]now kiss[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=acpm;40028491]just no tongue[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DrLuckyLuke;40028578]For a second there I thought I was in the gay chat thread[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=krix;40028779]Freakin' bookmarks all having the same icon, eh?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DarkCybo7;40028891]somebody get the fire department[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DrLuckyLuke;40028930]God damn it[/QUOTE]
This is why I love you guys. All of you.

[backwardspy]

[QUOTE=Dlaor-guy;40033443]This is why I love you guys. All of you.[/QUOTE]
I love you too. Especially you.

;)

[shodan]

Now kiss