[QUOTE=Chryseus;42680163]Driving a car doesn't require for you to understand how it works, designing circuits on the other hand does, it's just not possible to completely design circuits from the digital viewpoint when you have to deal with analog things like rise-time, bandwidth, impedance, self resonance, coupling and more, this of course gets much more critical at higher frequencies.
Point is digital is fundamentally analog, if you try ignore the analog aspects your circuits are at best going to be of marginal quality.[/QUOTE]
(I changed my example, as the car one was a bad one)
Of course you have to do all that, but there are abstractions that are good enough for digital use, which is the entire point of digital circuits. You stop caring about the fundamental analog waveforms and all that shazz, and abstract it into a digital circuit with signal runtimes and fixed rise-/falltimes.
Seemed relevant:
[img_thumb]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png[/img_thumb]
Its nice to have the different schools of electronics, especially when it comes to embedded systems.
You need a Xmitter telemetry? Analog/Digital PLL GO!
You need a fast ASIC/FPGA? Digital GO!
You need a stable, jitter-free PSU? Analog GO!
[QUOTE=Chryseus;42680163]Driving a car doesn't require for you to understand how it works, designing circuits on the other hand does, it's just not possible to completely design circuits from the digital viewpoint when you have to deal with analog things like rise-time, bandwidth, impedance, self resonance, coupling and more, this of course gets much more critical at higher frequencies.
Point is digital is fundamentally analog, [b]if you try ignore the analog aspects your circuits are at best going to be of marginal quality.[/b][/QUOTE]
Yes it's recommended knowledge but it's not required knowledge.
[QUOTE=chipset;42680405]Yes it's recommended knowledge but it's not required knowledge.[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you're doing exactly, in most low frequency circuits you can pretty much treat it as an ideal digital circuit, at higher frequencies however a lot more care needs to be taken as parasitic effects become significant.
I consider it quite important to have at least a basic understanding of analog electronics because sooner or later you will run into problems that can't be solved by simple digital solutions, I have no problem at all with people using digital, the only thing that annoys me is when people end up having problems due to never bothering to learn the analog side of things, usually because they perceive it as hard when it really isn't.
A good engineer doesn't limit their knowledge to one area.
[QUOTE=Chryseus;42680163]Driving a car doesn't require for you to understand how it works, designing circuits on the other hand does, it's just not possible to completely design circuits from the digital viewpoint when you have to deal with analog things like rise-time, bandwidth, impedance, self resonance, coupling and more, this of course gets much more critical at higher frequencies.
Point is digital is fundamentally analog, if you try ignore the analog aspects your circuits are at best going to be of marginal quality.[/QUOTE]
I just plug stuff in together and it works :(
[QUOTE=Chryseus;42680849]Depends on what you're doing exactly, in most low frequency circuits you can pretty much treat it as an ideal digital circuit, at higher frequencies however a lot more care needs to be taken as parasitic effects become significant.
I consider it quite important to have at least a basic understanding of analog electronics because sooner or later you will run into problems that can't be solved by simple digital solutions, I have no problem at all with people using digital, the only thing that annoys me is when people end up having problems due to never bothering to learn the analog side of things, usually because they perceive it as hard when it really isn't.
A good engineer doesn't limit their knowledge to one area.[/QUOTE]
It's all just opinions here kiddies, I don't think you can really definiteively say "you must know this to be able to do electronics!" and I don't think it's really relevant either
[QUOTE=metallics;42683374]It's all just opinions here kiddies, I don't think you can really definiteively say "you must know this to be able to do electronics!" and I don't think it's really relevant either[/QUOTE]
If you want to be a good engineer you should probably take it upon yourself to learn it.
But as a hobbyist then well, it's just a matter of what you're interested in.
I'm on the hunt for some decent microcontroller to start programming with and I'm looking at ATtiny84A-PU which is going for bargain price at my usual reseller, in fact it's cheaper than the ATtiny25/45 also on sale which I believe to have fewer features than the aforementioned 84. Any reason they would be selling the 84 cheaper that isn't immediately obvious to a newbie?
-snip-
-snip-
[QUOTE=chipset;42689698]Looks about right.
I never trust manual readouts from graphs though, if you need to know a voltage use a voltmeter or digital readout on your oscilloscope.[/QUOTE]
But doesn't the voltage constantly change? Or is the peak to peak voltage the voltage? I am sorry for the stupid question but I am a total newbie.
[QUOTE=Desuh;42689719][b]But doesn't the voltage constantly change?[/b] I am sorry for the stupid question but I am a total newbie.[/QUOTE]
Well, no. If it's a constant signal (which it looks like you have on the scope) the peak to peak (and thus RMS) voltage doesn't change.
The voltage fluctuates up and down as is characteristic of AC but assuming it's a fixed signal the fluctuations are constant, the parameters of the fluctuations are constant. But nearly all voltmeters can measure AC voltage and it takes this into account, giving you the correct value. You don't need to see the waveform on a scope to measure AC voltage.
Where do you guys find your fancy plastic boxes for your creations to sit in? I need one about 5x3x2 inches for my little amplifier.
[QUOTE=false prophet;42689963]Where do you guys find your fancy plastic boxes for your creations to sit in? I need one about 5x3x2 inches for my little amplifier.[/QUOTE]
Most suppliers sell enclosures.
If you want to save cash you can make your own out of wood.
[QUOTE=false prophet;42689963]Where do you guys find your fancy plastic boxes for your creations to sit in? I need one about 5x3x2 inches for my little amplifier.[/QUOTE]
When in doubt, Ebay.
[QUOTE=false prophet;42689963]Where do you guys find your fancy plastic boxes for your creations to sit in? I need one about 5x3x2 inches for my little amplifier.[/QUOTE]
Food containers, either ones that once contained foodstuffs, or unused ones from discount stores.
Ugly as sin, but cheap as dirt.
-snip-
[QUOTE=chipset;42689769]Well, no. If it's a constant signal (which it looks like you have on the scope) the peak to peak (and thus RMS) voltage doesn't change.
The voltage fluctuates up and down as is characteristic of AC but assuming it's a fixed signal the fluctuations are constant, the parameters of the fluctuations are constant. But nearly all voltmeters can measure AC voltage and it takes this into account, giving you the correct value. You don't need to see the waveform on a scope to measure AC voltage.[/QUOTE]
Isn't the voltage readout usually the effective voltage from the average power, not the peak voltage?
I have basically no clue about electronics though, I just think I heard something like this in one of my physics lectures.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;42697350]Isn't the voltage readout usually the effective voltage from the average power, not the peak voltage?
I have basically no clue about electronics though, I just think I heard something like this in one of my physics lectures.[/QUOTE]
A decent digital scope should be able to give you vpeak vrms and vavg of a waveform.
For sine:
Vrms = Vpeak / sqrt(2)
or
0.707 * Vpeak
Vavg = Vpeak / (Pi / 2)
or
0.637 * Vpeak
Vpeak = Vrms * sqrt(2)
or
Vpeak / 0.707
In practice you won't often need to know the average voltage.
Also most cheaper multimeters will only read the average voltage, some of the better ones will give the correct RMS reading but only on a pure sine wave, the best meters use a true RMS chip to give you the correct value for practically any repeating waveform.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;42689163]I'm on the hunt for some decent microcontroller to start programming with and I'm looking at ATtiny84A-PU which is going for bargain price at my usual reseller, in fact it's cheaper than the ATtiny25/45 also on sale which I believe to have fewer features than the aforementioned 84. Any reason they would be selling the 84 cheaper that isn't immediately obvious to a newbie?[/QUOTE]
Get the 84, price is mainly dictated by stock from a major distributor and demand, it's not unusual to see popular or obscure chips going for more, a fine example being the classic 741 op-amp which despite horrible performance is still in high demand.
Also get more than one, you will blow it up eventually.
-excited- replacement screen gets here today! Can't waaaaait. If this works, then I'm ordering the rest of my parts this weekend. With luck, I could have a working prototype by the end of next week.
Alright, officially frustrated as fuck.
Second display came, tested personally by the design engineer I spoke to, still nothing. Its not them, its me, I'm doing something wrong.
Question is... [I]What?[/I]
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
The upside of this though is I have now 2 potentially functional VFD modules, instead of 1 good one and a bad one. Now I just gotta figure out how the fuck to make it do shit so I can [I]move on with my shit.[/I]
Try moving the interface call up before isModelClass. (This post seems to say that isn't needed on the 7000 but it's worth a try)
( [url]http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/noritake-graphic-vfd-(128x32)-free-samples/msg315539/#msg315539[/url] )
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
Also did you uncomment one of those interface lines in that block near the top?
[QUOTE=BMCHa;42702935]Try moving the interface call up before isModelClass. (This post seems to say that isn't needed on the 7000 but it's worth a try)
( [url]http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/noritake-graphic-vfd-(128x32)-free-samples/msg315539/#msg315539[/url] )
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
Also did you uncomment one of those interface lines in that block near the top?[/QUOTE]
Just tried moving isModelClass, no change. Still doesn't light up.
And yes, I did uncomment one. I used the first listed protocol. Had to change the pin assignments because I don't have the jumpers to get to 3 pins each spaced one empty pin apart.
What is particularly aggravating is now I can't even get other code to run in the same program. It never gets past void setup, it just seems to hang somewhere in there. I tried making it drive the screen and blink the led on 13 at the same time, but the LED never blinks now when inserted into the Hello World sketch. If I separate it, the extra code runs fine, so I KNOW the arduino is functional. Its something to do with my setup, its something my fault I just know it.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42708739]Just tried moving isModelClass, no change. Still doesn't light up.
And yes, I did uncomment one. I used the first listed protocol. Had to change the pin assignments because I don't have the jumpers to get to 3 pins each spaced one empty pin apart.
What is particularly aggravating is now I can't even get other code to run in the same program. It never gets past void setup, it just seems to hang somewhere in there. I tried making it drive the screen and blink the led on 13 at the same time, but the LED never blinks now when inserted into the Hello World sketch. If I separate it, the extra code runs fine, so I KNOW the arduino is functional. Its something to do with my setup, its something my fault I just know it.[/QUOTE]
Have you tried measuring if the board is getting power right on the pins of the module itself and have you made absolutely sure none of your wires are broken?
[QUOTE=ddrl46;42708954]Have you tried measuring if the board is getting power right on the pins of the module itself and have you made absolutely sure none of your wires are broken?[/QUOTE]
Thou shalt measure voltages
[QUOTE=ddrl46;42708954]Have you tried measuring if the board is getting power right on the pins of the module itself and have you made absolutely sure none of your wires are broken?[/QUOTE]
I did, it was one of the first things I did. 5v at ~500mA, as the manual said it needed. No wires are broken either.
At this point, with 2 units not cooperating, I'm gonna give one to dad and see if he can get it to work since he has experience with serial interfaces. I really [I]really[/I] want the issue to be with me or the code or something that isn't the manufacturer's fault.
Op-Amps and breadboards really don't go together, was wondering why I was getting a peak in my frequency response, turns out just 10pF of capacitance is enough to cause significant positive feedback at above 300kHz.
[thumb]http://puu.sh/553EP.png[/thumb]
A few broken optocouplers later:
[url=http://i.imgur.com/t60RN8z.jpg][img]http://i.imgur.com/t60RN8zl.jpg[/img][/url]
Hooray! Pictures of the insides here: [url]http://imgur.com/a/yWsHc[/url].
I hate my job, but I love my job. I hate my job because I'm forced to crawl inside cramped, dusty spaces to do my work.
But I love my job because it gives me little toys to tinker with down the road.
[t]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8851/gcm8.jpg[/t]
PSU for an ionic air cleaner from an old furnace we demo'd out from a little old lady's house.
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