[QUOTE=TheBoff;21862622]You will have no friends, and end up a social pariah.[/QUOTE]
Garry has friends... Right? [b]Right?[/b] :ohdear:
[QUOTE=Chandler;22013843]Be extremely careful with schools like these.[/QUOTE]
Care to explain?
I've been to two schools like these. Both are the same. they tell you what you want to hear up front, and then once you get in you need to take classes not related to it in anyway, or WORSE, you never take any classes related to it. (For instance, there was 0 3D math at the first school. The second school had it as an optional requirement for graduation).
The best thing to do, honestly, would be to get a degree in CS. Some schools do this with a small minor in game dev, so you still get a basic understanding of game dev paradigms (Memory Pools and whatnot), while getting a VERY math heavy, comp sci heavy degree, that can serve you for anything you may do comp sci related.
You also need to take into account that you may find out that you hate your degree of study, or better yet, fall in love with another. I had a friend who wound up graduating with a degree in mathematics, and he's going for the whole shebang (PhD, etc.), because he found he loves math more than programming. At these special schools, it would be very hard for you to transfer to some other major without changing schools, possibly losing credits, and wasting money.
Trust me on this. Had I known what I know now, I would have applied to a proper 4 year school, like UC Berkley, or MIT, or Chapman University.
[QUOTE=Chandler;22018681]I've been to two schools like these. Both are the same. they tell you what you want to hear up front, and then once you get in you need to take classes not related to it in anyway, or WORSE, you never take any classes related to it. (For instance, there was 0 3D math at the first school. The second school had it as an optional requirement for graduation).
The best thing to do, honestly, would be to get a degree in CS. Some schools do this with a small minor in game dev, so you still get a basic understanding of game dev paradigms (Memory Pools and whatnot), while getting a VERY math heavy, comp sci heavy degree, that can serve you for anything you may do comp sci related.
You also need to take into account that you may find out that you hate your degree of study, or better yet, fall in love with another. I had a friend who wound up graduating with a degree in mathematics, and he's going for the whole shebang (PhD, etc.), because he found he loves math more than programming. At these special schools, it would be very hard for you to transfer to some other major without changing schools, possibly losing credits, and wasting money.
Trust me on this. Had I known what I know now, I would have applied to a proper 4 year school, like UC Berkley, or MIT, or Chapman University.[/QUOTE]
This. I'm Dutch and want to get into game development. Decided to study computer science (Technische Informatica) at the TU Delft instead of a game development study since those haven't proven themselves yet.
Last year we worked on a game project (my study has a media and knowledge side which handles game development too) in which we had to work together with the Utrecht school of arts. We worked with people from their game development study. We immediately noticed the differences. Their study focuses a lot on design and art, the level of programming on their part isn't that great. They said they barely had math courses since it scared student off.
So it's kind of what direction you want to go. A computer science study will contain a ton of complex theories and math, but in the end you'll be a better programmer than someone who comes from a game design study.
You can always decide to get a bachelor degree in Computer Science and get a master degree in game design, which is what I'll probably be doing.
Layla is my dad.
Cons:
Many of my coworkers lack basic social skills
[editline]18th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jallen;21863808]The pay is pretty average actually. Programmers don't usually make over £40,000 annually.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't accept a job straight out of college for anything less than $70k
[QUOTE=madmax678;21866936]Con: Boring.
Its only for people that have a lot of time. ( i.e People with no lives)[/QUOTE]
Well, that is just stupid, if you know how to manage your time (which a lot of people don't know how) you can do anything. I usually go to sleep between 12-6 (roughly) that gives me 18hrs of doing whatever I want which is plenty for programming and a social life (which I don't have, but that is beside the point)
[editline]18th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=layla;21890041]It's called reality.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if this is the reality, yes people do that because they are being competitive and think that by putting you down they will gain something. I try to help people when they ask me (online) in real life I am a dick sometimes but that's after I met you and I found out what sort of person you are. I am trying to change as everyone is as soon as they realise that there is no point in being complete assholes.
[editline]18th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jawalt;21892306]That's good money. You can live off way less than that. That's living comfortably and not having to drive a hoopty car and have a house with bars on the windows. Good enough for me.[/QUOTE]
Well depending what you want to do, but from what I've seen, here (UK) as a game developer using (C++/C#) you don't get that much unless you are a senior. Out of uni you get between 18-22 maybe 25k. For some reason as a HTML Game Developer you get from 35-40k, not sure why you get a that much more for doing web games.
[editline]18th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jawalt;21902644]That's not how it works. You don't get to day "I help the people I care about and that makes me not selfish." I'm not even talking about just third world countries there are plenty of people under the poverty line in a developed country. And when you 'earn' you're just taking from someone else.[/QUOTE]
I do agree with Jallen, I grew up in a third world country (my mom was making £200 a month and it was not enough to pay the bills and food, luckily we had our own house) my goal is to make as much money as possible just so I can see everyone close to me not worry about money ever again.
Obviously I will do it in a legitimate way and put my time, sweat and any money that I have what I want to create (hopefully I will see some returns).
not a CS major here (but EE and CS tend to have quite some overlap and I have a lot of experienced CS friends so these are just some thoughts I had)
Good stuff:
- At least for the time being, landing a job should be fairly easy even for mediocre programmers.
- To follow that, tech specifically is obviously a growing field, its like companies are trying to shove computers and internet of things into our faces.
- Interesting applications and fields *buzzwords*: 'data science' 'machine learning' 'deep learning'. But seriously, the applications are cool and are growing, and companies need people who are interested and willing to work hard in these fields.
Not so good stuff/opinions:
- You're gonna encounter the annoying startup/overly-ambitious/silicon-valley-is-easy-peasy individuals once in awhile. Although I think startups are more viable than ever now, I think there's still a lot of naivety surrounding the culture.
- Competition is intense for the big companies (Facebook, Google, etc.) and sometimes even great CS applicants don't make the cut since these companies tend to compare interviewees to each other in hiring rounds rather than setting some specific bar/score needed for the coding interviews. Sometimes its just bad luck that there were slightly better people applying with you.
But in the end, only do CS because you like it ofc. Some of my best friends are CS majors and it's always a blast to work on projects together. Plus there's hackathons and stuff. I promise you that some CS people will be the coolest and most interesting and hardworking individuals you've ever met
this thread is from 2010 why are people posting in it
Oh, I didn't realise but it doesn't matter, it is a good topic and if someone has something good or bad to say they should.
To partake in necroposting going on, I'd have to say that "You get paid well" and "You'll get a job right outta school" is not a really set reality.
While I'm certainly doing a bit better than I did before, 2 years after graduating I have a part-time dev job at a local start up for $14 an hour, with no benefits. Since my continuing employment with them is based on whatever they can throw at me, I'm holding onto $8 and hour retail job, in case I end up finishing up the given projects, and will have to rely on a different source of income.
Most of my work experience has been freelance, with great chunk of it being free work to build up my resume, which isn't too bad at this points (at least 5 web sites for various small businesses, experience in tech supports, etc). I had numerous interviews, but none of them really worked out - most frequently because there was "Someone with more experience than you" applying to all of the positions.
Oh, and I am $60k in debt because of college. Luckily I'm earning too little for me to be required to pay off my loans. Yay, I guess?
Now, of course, this is all technically happening because I am living in buttfuck mountains of New England, so it's not like the lack of proper full time positions to apply to is true to all areas of US, much less the world. So, for obvious reasons, expect to live in a city/close to a city if you want to be a programmer.
You make a shitload of money. I'm only an intern: I make $50/hr and I'm living in a luxury apartment on the company's dime
[editline]22nd June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=gufu;52387000]To partake in necroposting going on, I'd have to say that "You get paid well" and "You'll get a job right outta school" is not a really set reality.
While I'm certainly doing a bit better than I did before, 2 years after graduating I have a part-time dev job at a local start up for $14 an hour, with no benefits. Since my continuing employment with them is based on whatever they can throw at me, I'm holding onto $8 and hour retail job, in case I end up finishing up the given projects, and will have to rely on a different source of income.
Most of my work experience has been freelance, with great chunk of it being free work to build up my resume, which isn't too bad at this points (at least 5 web sites for various small businesses, experience in tech supports, etc). I had numerous interviews, but none of them really worked out - most frequently because there was "Someone with more experience than you" applying to all of the positions.
Oh, and I am $60k in debt because of college. Luckily I'm earning too little for me to be required to pay off my loans. Yay, I guess?
Now, of course, this is all technically happening because I am living in buttfuck mountains of New England, so it's not like the lack of proper full time positions to apply to is true to all areas of US, much less the world. So, for obvious reasons, expect to live in a city/close to a city if you want to be a programmer.[/QUOTE]
You should really be applying for new companies
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52391376]You should really be applying for new companies[/QUOTE]
What, new as in "Other" or new as in "Startup?
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52391376]You make a shitload of money. I'm only an intern: I make $50/hr and I'm living in a luxury apartment on the company's dime
[editline]22nd June 2017[/editline]
You should really be applying for new companies[/QUOTE]
What sort of job is it (what is it called)?
[QUOTE=gufu;52392343]What, new as in "Other" or new as in "Startup?[/QUOTE]
Personally I feel like startups are too risky. And it seems like many of the notable ones work you into the ground. At my company I have noticed that only about 5% of employees stay at work past 5pm regularly. So really new as in other
[editline]23rd June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=BoowmanTech;52392805]What sort of job is it (what is it called)?[/QUOTE]
Software Engineering Intern
pros: you have a good excuse to program
cons: you have no good excuse not to
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52393120]Personally I feel like startups are too risky. And it seems like many of the notable ones work you into the ground. At my company I have noticed that only about 5% of employees stay at work past 5pm regularly. So really new as in other[/QUOTE]
Oh, I am looking hard for a full time position. However, as I said, it's buttfuck mountains of New England, so it's not as easy to find more than 3 places looking for people at around the same time.
[QUOTE=gufu;52394584]Oh, I am looking hard for a full time position. However, as I said, it's buttfuck mountains of New England, so it's not as easy to find more than 3 places looking for people at around the same time.[/QUOTE]
Right.. You're going to have to relocate if you want the raise. Think Boston, NYC, Philly, DC. It's not like you have to go to the bay
I'm having a great experience interning at this company in DC (not even a tech company)
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52394932]Right.. You're going to have to relocate if you want the raise. Think Boston, NYC, Philly, DC. It's not like you have to go to the bay
I'm having a great experience interning at this company in DC (not even a tech company)[/QUOTE]
Oh no, I understand entirely that CS jobs are in cities. Especially well paying ones. But then you have to live in/next to Boston/NY/Philly... and really, in the end, is that really worth it (the answer is yes)?
[QUOTE=butre;52393151]pros: you have a good excuse to program
cons: you have no good excuse not to[/QUOTE]
This so much - if you enjoy programming it's great but if you run into a problem you can't just give up and come back to it in a month.
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52394932]Right.. You're going to have to relocate if you want the raise. Think Boston, NYC, Philly, DC. It's not like you have to go to the bay
I'm having a great experience interning at this company in DC (not even a tech company)[/QUOTE]
second for DC. I'm from the DMV area and NOVA has lots of great tech jobs in defense contracting. Just be a citizen and not a political subversive and you'll be fine
[QUOTE=tschumann;52396108]This so much - if you enjoy programming it's great but if you run into a problem you can't just give up and come back to it in a month.[/QUOTE]
I think he was alluding to how some programmers let their work leak into their "free" time :v:... maybe that was just my interpretation
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;52397525]I think he was alluding to how some programmers let their work leak into their "free" time :v:... maybe that was just my interpretation[/QUOTE]
Oh maybe - my take was that programming is a great job if you love programming, but you'll always be programming.
[B]Pro[/B]
It's still a fairly young industry so a lot companies are willing to try new and better ways of working.
[B]Con[/B]
It's still a fairly young industry so sometimes the company you work for will try new things that don't work out.
[QUOTE=madmax678;21866936]Its only for people that have alot of time. ( i.e People with no lives)[/QUOTE]
Disagree entirely. I go to work 9-5 and go home and do whatever I want. It's just like any other 9-5 job. I rarely code outside of work
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52421526]Disagree entirely. I go to work 9-5 and go home and do whatever I want. It's just like any other 9-5 job. I rarely code outside of work[/QUOTE]
I do aggree with you and at least in my case, I start coding (working on my own things) when I get back home. So basically I code from 7-12pm.
[editline]1st July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=madmax678;21866936]Con: Boring.
Its only for people that have alot of time. ( i.e People with no lives)[/QUOTE]
I do it because I love it, it is just like anything that you love (painting, training, making music etc)
[b]Pros[/b]
Good long-term investment. Very low chance of software engineering going away
Low barrier to entry, all you need is a laptop, determination, and a lot of free time. No fancy degrees or anything like that
Good pay
You will be one of the few literate people in the modern age
Surrounded by geek culture (can be a con depending on who you are)
If you already like coding and find the right employer then it will not feel like work a lot of the time
[b]Cons[/b]
Little social interaction
Muscular / posture problems if you don't keep an eye on it
Very few girls
Surrounded by geek culture (can be a pro depending on who you are)
If you don't already like coding then it can be hell
Personally I think the cons outweigh the pros, but I'm already neck deep in it. :/ I still think it is a useful skill. I just don't think coding regularly for 40hrs a week is healthy. I think a few times a year (for stretches spanning a few weeks) is a much better lifestyle choice if you can afford it. The pay is pretty good so if you spend frugally it could work. You just need to find an employer who would be willing to let you do something like that. Haven't found anyone yet unfortunately.
[QUOTE=Not64;52521494][b]Pros[/b]
Low barrier to entry, all you need is a laptop, determination, and a lot of free time. No fancy degrees or anything like that
[/quote]
Who the hell will hire you without a degree (provided it's not done through connection, but that's not viable for everyone).
[quote]
Surrounded by geek culture (can be a con depending on who you are)
[/quote]
Brogrammers are a thing, especially amongst non-SE (Web Dev, IT, etc).
[quote]
[b]Cons[/b]
Little social interaction
[/quote]
Technically true to any office position.
[quote]
Personally I think the cons outweigh the pros, but I'm already neck deep in it. :/ I still think it is a useful skill. I just don't think coding regularly for 40hrs a week is healthy. I think a few times a year (for stretches spanning a few weeks) is a much better lifestyle choice if you can afford it. The pay is pretty good so if you spend frugally it could work. You just need to find an employer who would be willing to let you do something like that. Haven't found anyone yet unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
That... will never happen. Unless you are working part-time contracts, in which case you will probably be paid by-hour and only working for stretches of weeks to month, you are going to be looking to work for regular 9 to 5 through a week for a salaried pay, with unpaid overtime getting closer to project completion.
[QUOTE=gufu;52529954]Who the hell will hire you without a degree (provided it's not done through connection, but that's not viable for everyone).[/quote]
Lots.
Also the Internet makes it pretty easy to make connections. This forum, for example, could be used. And you can also make a name for yourself online, all you have to do is make software that people use. [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1490195]Example[/url]
[quote]That... will never happen. Unless you are working part-time contracts, in which case you will probably be paid by-hour and only working for stretches of weeks to month, you are going to be looking to work for regular 9 to 5 through a week for a salaried pay, with unpaid overtime getting closer to project completion.[/QUOTE]
I've tended to find are gigs that go 6 months on, 6 months off. There [i]must[/i] be jobs out there that do 2-3 months on, and the rest of the year off.
if you don't have a degree I'm sure you can get a job in web dev, but without a degree your income prospects are much lower than someone with a degree, and you'll always be playing catch up to people who do have a degree. 20 years down the road, nobody cares about your degree, but your salary could still be lower than what it could have been since your starting salary was likely lower
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