Any Good Tutorials For Making A Ragdoll In 3ds Max?
55 replies, posted
Which error are you getting? The 'bone has no parent' error?
The rig looks correct. Have you, by any chance, neglected to update the bone hierarchy of the phymodel (or any other SMDs) so they match?
You can update the bones of the phymodel quickly by importing it, then importing the reference model and ticking 'skip mesh'. That will merge properly rigged bones of the reference mesh with the phymodel.
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;27959280]Which error are you getting? The 'bone has no parent' error?
The rig looks correct. Have you, by any chance, neglected to update the bone hierarchy of the phymodel (or any other SMDs) so they match?
You can update the bones of the phymodel quickly by importing it, then importing the reference model and ticking 'skip mesh'. That will merge properly rigged bones of the reference mesh with the phymodel.[/QUOTE]
It seems I fixed my problem by grouping my ragdoll together. I dont know why that fixed It, In a little bit I will tell you if it worked.
Which bone is it choking on? Could you post the exact error message?
That would be a good place to begin the investigation.
Did you forget to unhide the reference model before exporting it? The exported reference SMD must include the skeleton and skin. Also, don't use the group function in 3Dsmax, it causes weird problems when used in correlation with exported SMDs.
As for the error itself, if Bone18 is the base of the tail, then you must have accidentally parented the pelvic bone to it instead of doing the opposite. When you move the pelvis in 3dsmax, does everything move with it?
Hang in there, I won't be satisfied until we succeed =P
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;27960430]Did you forget to unhide the reference model before exporting it? The exported reference SMD must include the skeleton and skin. Also, don't use the group function in 3Dsmax, it causes weird problems when used in correlation with exported SMDs.
As for the error itself, if Bone18 is the base of the tail, then you must have accidentally parented the pelvic bone to it instead of doing the opposite. When you move the pelvis in 3dsmax, does everything move with it?
Hang in there, I won't be satisfied until we succeed =P[/QUOTE]
I still don't know what my problem is, When I move my pelvic bone everything moves with it.
I used link constraint function to connect my bones.
B.T.W - What do you mean by un-hide, That may be my problem.
I am starting to think that the best way to learn this is by you, or someone, anyone. To make my Obj into a ragdoll, and then give it to me so I can see what I am doing wrong.
Here is an obj + texture.
[url]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0966EI3F[/url]
I would like a reference and collision model I do not need a qc.
Unless you have another rigged model and collision for me to look at? Anyone?
I understand that this can be difficult and I will make the SMDs for you if you want, but before that I'd like you to give it one more try. After all, if you can work this out, you'll be able to make all the ragdolls you want in the future.
For clarity, here's a glance at the anatomy of the two prospective SMDs used by a ragdoll:
[img]http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/585/breen1.png[/img]
[b]breen_reference.smd[/b] contains all of the models geometry and bones. This SMD should contain the definitive bone setup and all other SMDs (such as animations or collision) should be built off of its bones.
[img]http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9731/breen.png[/img]
[b]phymodel.smd[/b] contains the simplified collision geometry, rigged to the [b]same[/b] set of bones as breen_reference.smd. Individual segments are rigged to the moveable bones without any welds between them. They appear black in this picture because their faces have been inverted.
These are the only two SMDs you need to make your ragdoll. Either one can be used for the 'ragdoll' and 'idle' animations.
Feel free to give it another shot. If you decide that you still want to bail you, you can give me the SMDs you've made and I can tell you what you've done right and wrong. Good luck!
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;27972795]I understand that this can be difficult and I will make the SMDs for you if you want, but before that I'd like you to give it one more try. After all, if you can work this out, you'll be able to make all the ragdolls you want in the future.
For clarity, here's a glance at the anatomy of the two prospective SMDs used by a ragdoll:
[img_thumb]http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/585/breen1.png[/img_thumb]
[b]breen_reference.smd[/b] contains all of the models geometry and bones. This SMD should contain the definitive bone setup and all other SMDs (such as animations or collision) should be built off of its bones.
[img_thumb]http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9731/breen.png[/img_thumb]
[b]phymodel.smd[/b] contains the simplified collision geometry, rigged to the [b]same[/b] set of bones as breen_reference.smd. Individual segments are rigged to the moveable bones without any welds between them. They appear black in this picture because their faces have been inverted.
These are the only two SMDs you need to make your ragdoll. Either one can be used for the 'ragdoll' and 'idle' animations.
Feel free to give it another shot. If you decide that you still want to bail you, you can give me the SMDs you've made and I can tell you what you've done right and wrong. Good luck![/QUOTE]
Would it be a problem if the reference and idle, Smd model was made of three objects?
Or must it be just one, If it must be one, how do you .. Weld, The objects together.
If not then I have no Idea what the problem is..I will upload you my reference and phys files for you to look at if you want.
[url]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HKTJE1AU[/url]
I figured making the collision model out of completely cubes would be fine.
My previous upload did not include what I did. It was just a port from Morrowind, without anything done to it really.
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27974994]Would it be a problem if the reference and idle, Smd model was made of three objects?
Or must it be just one, If it must be one, how do you .. Weld, The objects together.
If not then I have no Idea what the problem is..I will upload you my reference and phys files for you to look at if you want.
[url]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HKTJE1AU[/url]
I figured making the collision model out of completely cubes would be fine.
My previous upload did not include what I did. It was just a port from Morrowind, without anything done to it really.[/QUOTE]
If there's more than one bit of geometry in an exported scene, it will be merged with the rest of the model when you export it. The term 'welding' refers to merging vertices together, like if you had two interlocking triangles and you merged their exterior vertices to form a single surface (square). 'Weld' is a function of the Editable Mesh modifier. You won't need to weld anything in order to export models.
If your reference model contained three parts (like a head, body and tail) that weren't welded together, you could still skin them to the skeleton and they'd all me merged together when exported.
Building a collision model out of cubes is fine.
I, unfortunately, can't open the files you provided in 3dsmax 9. If you export your SMDs and hand them to me, I can probably tell you what the problem is.
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;27978954]If there's more than one bit of geometry in an exported scene, it will be merged with the rest of the model when you export it. The term 'welding' refers to merging vertices together, like if you had two interlocking triangles and you merged their exterior vertices to form a single surface (square). 'Weld' is a function of the Editable Mesh modifier. You won't need to weld anything in order to export models.
If your reference model contained three parts (like a head, body and tail) that weren't welded together, you could still skin them to the skeleton and they'd all me merged together when exported.
Building a collision model out of cubes is fine.
I, unfortunately, can't open the files you provided in 3dsmax 9. If you export your SMDs and hand them to me, I can probably tell you what the problem is.[/QUOTE]
Sorry about that, I have 2010, Here ya go.
[url]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QW1BYVRO[/url]
The hunger_ref_idle
Is just the ref I did not mean to put idle.
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27979945]Sorry about that, I have 2010, Here ya go.
[url]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QW1BYVRO[/url]
The hunger_ref_idle
Is just the ref I did not mean to put idle.[/QUOTE]
No problem.
I just examined your model and it's mostly very nice!
The only obvious errors I found with the reference model were that bones 4, 1, 18 and 6 (hips, tail and spine) were not parented to bone 7 (pelvis) and that bones 14 and 10 (shoulders) were not parented to bone 13 (spine). The pelvis wasn't centred correctly below the spine, either (more of a nitpick) and no vertices were skinned to it.
The phymodel is mostly good. It suffered from the same unlinked bones and a few unweighed vertices. It's very important that the bone for each moveable part is (100%) weighed to the vertices of its respective segment so that none of the segments are distorted when their limbs are moved. It's also good practice to build the segments in a way that prevents them from intersecting eachother, as this can result in restricted motion. The pelvis segment wasn't weighed to the pelvis, also.
I linked the hips spin and tail to the pelvis, linked the shoulders to the spine, weighed the pelvis segment to the pelvis bone, centred the pelvic bone and [b]pingo![/b], it compiled without a complaint.
So, here's what I want you to do:
[b]Reference SMD;[/b]
1) Centre the pelvic bone below the spine and link the hips, spine and tail to it.
2) Skin the pelvis vertices to the pelvis bone.
3) Link the shoulders to the spine.
[b]Phymodel[/b]
1) Delete the phymodel and remake it, using the newly updated skeleton.
2) Try to preserve small cracks between segments where the joints would be.
3) Only create collision segments for the necessary parts. Adjoining parts like necks, shoulders and knees do not need to have collision segments. [url=http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7220/collh.jpg][b]Simplicity is the key![/b][/url]
4) When skinning it (weighing vertices to the bones), ensure that each bone has 100% control of its respective segment (IE: The forearm bone controls 100% of the forearm segment, etc).
I think that's the lot. Keep going, you're very close.
Can you elaborate on "Linking" Bones. I use the "Link Constraint" Button/Tool But I do not think I have the settings right or something, Because I am getting that error but now it is with bone 06 instead of bone 18. Bone06 is my spine bone connected to my pelvis.
Maybe I am even using the wrong tool here. Can you give me any more specifics on how to link the bones using 3ds max? As in what tool in 3ds max do I use, and what settings do I need ect.
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27982979]Can you elaborate on "Linking" Bones. I use the "Link Constraint" Button/Tool But I do not think I have the settings right or something, Because I am getting that error but now it is with bone 06 instead of bone 18. Bone06 is my spine bone connected to my pelvis.
Maybe I am even using the wrong tool here. Can you give me any more specifics on how to link the bones using 3ds max? As in what tool in 3ds max do I use, and what settings do I need ect.[/QUOTE]
Sure. I think the tool has a different icon in 3dsmax 2010, but for me it looks like this ([img]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5922/linker.gif[/img]) and is called 'select and link'. It's on the top toolbar, on the left side.
With the button pressed in, simply drag from child to parent to establish a link:
[img]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2423/link1wt.jpg[/img]
After "Un-Linking" my linked constraints and "Re-Linking" using the select and link tool. I get strange results, When I try to move my spine it instead rotates my pelvis, and when I try to move my pelvis it is unconnected to anything!
This happens even when I have everything connected.
Am I missing something here?
Also, Linking in reverse order does the same thing in reverse except when I move my spine it also moves my pelvis.
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27987127]After "Un-Linking" my linked constraints and "Re-Linking" using the select and link tool. I get strange results, When I try to move my spine it instead rotates my pelvis, and when I try to move my pelvis it is unconnected to anything![/QUOTE]
When you move the bones connected to the pelvis, it should cause the entire model to rotate. This is a sign of proper bone hierarchy. 'Moving' a bone always moves the bone it's connected to. Moving the pelvis should move the entire skeleton.
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27987127]Also, Linking in reverse order does the same thing in reverse except when I move my spine it also moves my pelvis.[/QUOTE]
Linking in reverse order will create a hierarchy error. The thighs, tail and spine must be linked to the pelvis. If you want, you can CTRL + click all of them, then drag the entire lot to the pelvis with the Select and Link tool.
I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but we'll get to the bottom of it.
Hello, I am making a ragdoll in 3dsmax and I have one problem
[URL=http://xmages.net/show.php/2462480_1-jpg.html][IMG]http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/7/c/thumb/thumb_70785833.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://xmages.net/show.php/2462514_2-jpg.html][IMG]http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/3/2/thumb/thumb_c8f702fc.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
You can see, when I turn first bone it working like Uniform Scale
Give plz advice how to normaly rotate
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;27991311]When you move the bones connected to the pelvis, it should cause the entire model to rotate. This is a sign of proper bone hierarchy. 'Moving' a bone always moves the bone it's connected to. Moving the pelvis should move the entire skeleton.
Linking in reverse order will create a hierarchy error. The thighs, tail and spine must be linked to the pelvis. If you want, you can CTRL + click all of them, then drag the entire lot to the pelvis with the Select and Link tool.
I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but we'll get to the bottom of it.[/QUOTE]
What I explained happens is literally all that happens, nothing else moves.
[QUOTE=Xamresor;27991449]Hello, I am making a ragdoll in 3dsmax and I have one problem
[URL=http://xmages.net/show.php/2462480_1-jpg.html][img_thumb]http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/7/c/thumb/thumb_70785833.jpg[/img_thumb][/URL] [URL=http://xmages.net/show.php/2462514_2-jpg.html][img_thumb]http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/3/2/thumb/thumb_c8f702fc.jpg[/img_thumb][/URL]
You can see, when I turn first bone it working like Uniform Scale
Give plz advice how to normaly rotate[/QUOTE]
I'm not entirely sure what you're showing me here, but if you're referring to the way that region of your model is distorting when the bones is rotated, it won't behave like that when it's compiled.
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27992028]What I explained happens is literally all that happens, nothing else moves.[/QUOTE]
Hmm. Feel free to take a look at this example for educational purposes: [url=http://filesmelt.com/dl/reference_example.rar][b][Link][/b][/url].
In the included scene, I've correctly rigged the problematic bones. Grab a hold of bone07 (pelvis), move it around and see how the rest of the model behaves.
Alright, Thanks. My Problem was my "Un-Linking" my linked constraints step, If I would have not done this it would have worked the first time.
I am working on re-exporting everything currently, This better work... Lol.
... IT WORKED! Yea!
But I need to probably re-work this doing a better job with my current model, Many many many thanks.
I am Extremely happy and have learned another skill! Thanks for your patience and also thank you for taking you time to deal with my problems and possibly many others, Back to work with me! lols. ^.^
[QUOTE=Hellsing;27993313]Alright, Thanks. My Problem was my "Un-Linking" my linked constraints step, If I would have not done this it would have worked the first time.
I am working on re-exporting everything currently, This better work... Lol.
... IT WORKED! Yea!
But I need to probably re-work this doing a better job with my current model, Many many many thanks.
I am Extremely happy and have learned another skill! Thanks for your patience and also thank you for taking you time to deal with my problems and possibly many others, Back to work with me! lols. ^.^[/QUOTE]
Hooray! [img]http://forums.autosport.com/style_emoticons/default/clap.gif[/img]
I knew you'd get it. Good luck with the rest of the model and I'll be happy to help out if you have any more questions or problems.
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;27828214]
It looks like you've accidentally given one bone two parents... It's an easy mistake to make. [img_thumb]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2735/hierb.png[/img_thumb]
[/QUOTE]
I am preparing to add $jointconstrain support to [URL="http://wallworm.com/projects/utilities/docs"]Wall Worm Model Tools[/URL] and started scouring the internet for the kinds of problems people run into when making them. Then I came across this post and became a little confused. How is it possible to have multiple parents? From my understanding of Max over the years, that isn't possible.
[QUOTE=wallworm;28029467]I am preparing to add $jointconstrain support to [URL="http://wallworm.com/projects/utilities/docs"]Wall Worm Model Tools[/URL] and started scouring the internet for the kinds of problems people run into when making them. Then I came across this post and became a little confused. How is it possible to have multiple parents? From my understanding of Max over the years, that isn't possible.[/QUOTE]
It's not possible. I just thought that would be the best way to explain it to a beginner. If you parent the forearm to the bicep, then parent the forearm to the hand by linking it in the wrong order, you're destroying the link to the bicep and creating a problem that studiomdl will choke on.
cool story bro
[QUOTE=BabyFawnLegs;28031319]It's not possible. I just thought that would be the best way to explain it to a beginner...[/QUOTE]
Aha... so I'm still in Kansas Toto! :)
Sorry for bumping this thread I was hoping to get some insight into ragdoll creation. If I have a model with all the "bones" set and weighted (i.e already rigged) would it be possible to convert this to a ragdoll? Do the bones need to be renamed? Or do I just need to convert this model to .smd and compile it?
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