[QUOTE=angel natavi;40646838]True, I will admit that. However, extrude is a wonderous tool in 3ds Max, and quickly renders that point rather moot.[/QUOTE]
no it doesn't dude read up on sub-d
[QUOTE=OpethRockr55;40646751]No. Why waste time on something that has no impact on the the final product? I'd argue that more is better anyway, as it's easier to take them away than add new ones and maintain your shapes.[/QUOTE]
I was always told it's easier to add than to take away. Subdivisions, extrusions, and Edge Loops can easily add detail in a model. If you delete some polys or removed an edge loop (And the vertices that were made with the edges) you run a chance you'll end up with a tri, or even worse, a 5+ sided poly.
[QUOTE=angel natavi;40646496]Still, if he can get the job done with less where they are not needed, highpolly for renders or not, shouldn't the effort be made to take out what isn't needed?[/QUOTE]
only if your pc starts lagging (if you have several of those objects or if you have a terrible pc). Why would you introduce triangles in a high poly mesh? if you ever need to add more edge loops later it will make your like harder.
*I'm not sure if these are the right 'mods' to be posting here, so if this isn't the topic for mesh / texture modding, I apologize*
Nowhere near the level of work being put into a lot of these, but I figure since I'd seen some folks browsing around to get their hands on TDKR Bane model, I'd try my best to emulate that as best I could using a mix of the PW / MPO+ models I exported which best matched Bane's gear and textures, and browse around for the rest. (Mask and Gauntlet.) I eventually stumbled onto thefree3Dmodels.com, found a few models which vastly resembled what I was looking for, and after several several hours of face vertex modding and heavy texture editing, here is where it currently stands. (Though it's large PSP models, so I'm unsure to whom that would apply)
[QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/BigK7888/BaneTest6_zpscc210ee5.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/BigK7888/BaneTest5_zpse9840108.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/BigK7888/BaneTest7_zpsa7e30bd3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/BigK7888/BaneTest8_zps5e1f49ed.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/BigK7888/BaneTest9_zpsf93ebd47.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
generally it does not matter at all how many polies are in the hi poly, unless it is just obscenely and uselessly detailed. 4+ million polies for high polies is normal. the idea isnt to get low polycounts, it's clean geo for subdivision.
Hey guys, thanks for the crit (and the ensuing discussion, really enlightening stuff).
Another question though, I'm still a bit confused about the whole sub-d modelling business. Is it reserved for high-poly stuff? Do I use the blocky, unsmoothed cage if I want to export to a game, say, Source?
no. I hope this helps, here's a breakdown of normal maps and how they work:
you use the high poly as the model only for baking to a normal map. the normal map holds the mathematical differences between the directions of the high poly and low poly surface. this means that across the map, the pixels shift colors to hold the correct information for what direction they should tell the lighting calculation that part of the low poly surface is facing. really what's happening is the "normals" of the high and the low poly are being compared, and the normal map is shifting the normals of the low to accurately match the high poly on a per pixel basis. the normals are just the outward directions (tangents) from the model on a per vertex basis. so the normal map pretty much pushes and pulls the vertex normals on a per pixel level to create the illusion of more surface detail than there really is.
baking a normal map is typically done from high to low by means of a cage. the low poly is smoothed according to angles and how the user wants really. this is mostly to control the amount of work the normal map has to do to make the low poly get shaded like how the high poly should look. if you were to smooth two faces at a 90 degree angle, the normal map has to produce a large gradient to correct the bad shading. if the faces aren't smoothed (not averaged normals) the normal map only has to bend the per pixel normals near the edge where the angle is to reproduce the high poly's look. when put into a game engine, this means that there aren't any large gradients in the normal map, so image compression doesn't cause the normal map to look terrible.
but for baking to work, you must split the low poly's uvs wherever there's a split in the normals (different smoothing groups in 3ds max). the baking is controlled by a cage. the cage is just the low poly with all averaged normals, which means it's totally smooth irrelevant of angle. Usually it looks kinda fucked up with bad shading. this cage is pushed outward along its normals (push modifier in 3ds max if you don't understand this) to completely encompass the high poly model. basically when you bake your normal map (and any other map), the cage casts rays inward to hit the high poly, figuring out the differences between the low and the high. once it stores that data into a texture, boom you've got a normal map.
if you want to understand this in depth then you'll have to do some reading, mainly these links and a some research:
Read through this and mainly observe the pictures to learn about good sub-d practices:
[url]http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56014[/url]
Read this whole thread:
[url]http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107196[/url]
and this whole thread:
[url]http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81154[/url]
once you read through all of that you should have a pretty good grasp on what you need to do to be able to bake a proper normal map. hope this helps!
[editline]15th May 2013[/editline]
im a little burnt out from last night so i hope all of this was coherent enough
[QUOTE=surfur;40628000]Reason I asked, I got shafted on mine. I go to one of the Art Institutes here in America. Private colleges are a piece of shit. My first intro to modeling class, the PROFESSOR told us to take a screen shot of our UV and photoshop out everything else...we showed him how to render it. I have a million and one other stories like that of how incompetent our teachers are.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm better than my 3D tutor too, I just keep quiet and try not to cry as he's basically teaching the class wrong method's.
Everything else on the course though is benefitial to me, including the people.
if you are in college and your professors do not know 3d better than or as well as you do then you should question whether or not you need to change colleges or (less likely) you're just that good and drop out completely. i mean i don't learn any 3d from my professors but i've learned so much about design, and that's been incredibly beneficial for me. they've also set up a space in which i'm challenged and must innovate. if you aren't getting all of this out of your education, your college is terrible and you should leave.
also AI is really bad, it's not that private colleges are bad
[QUOTE=Doakes;40649246]Bane images[/QUOTE]
It's quite off topic, He looks like asian Bane.
[QUOTE=rebel1324;40653581]It's quite off topic, He looks like asian Bane.[/QUOTE]
Fair point, then I'll try and face vertex that and see if I can get his eyes more like Tom Hardy.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/LynuQmf.png[/IMG]
I might expose some piping or something.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1157653/TEMP/shotgun.jpg[/img]
low poly ass holes (7255 tris) (special thanks to fewes 4 the highpoly model)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PQVgRZh.jpg[/IMG]
Behold the crappiest model ever. Which later became Pac-Man.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AQADPmM.jpg[/IMG]
Edit: I guess I could give you guys the link. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=145276433[/url]
[t]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/TurboThunder/DT/turbowip.png[/t]
This is relevant to here.
[img]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/124/e/9/cardboardmanleaked_by_rudi52525-d642b2w.png[/img]
Behold, my awfull attempt to make a 2nd character. Good god this sucks.
Hands are a nightmare to make from scratch.
[QUOTE=Itauske Roken;40681447]Hands are a nightmare to make from scratch.[/QUOTE]
But if you have a nice model made already, you could just copy it, and combine. Why make another one? Just modify the first!
[QUOTE=Daemon White;40685232]But if you have a nice model made already, you could just copy it, and combine. Why make another one? Just modify the first![/QUOTE]
this plus knowing how to use them c:
I did another gun model. I'm posting the frames like before so you guys can hopefully comment on my (horrible?) technique. :v:
Mesh:
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh2.PNG[/thumb]
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh.PNG[/thumb]
Wireframes:
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe_3.PNG [/thumb]
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe_2.PNG[/thumb]
[thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe.PNG[/thumb]
[editline]May 18th, 2013[/editline]
Also, 14k triangles? Is that too much?
[QUOTE=Itauske Roken;40681447]Hands are a nightmare to make from scratch.[/QUOTE]
Zbrush's Zspheres are a beautiful thing.
[QUOTE=Azzator;40686981]I did another gun model. I'm posting the frames like before so you guys can hopefully comment on my (horrible?) technique. :V:
Mesh:
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh2.PNG[/thumb]
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh.PNG[/thumb]
Wireframes:
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe_3.PNG [/thumb]
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe_2.PNG[/thumb]
[thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe.PNG[/thumb]
[editline]May 18th, 2013[/editline]
Also, 14k triangles? Is that too much?[/QUOTE]
For a low poly, yes. BF3's gun models are around 7k - 8k tris. I see you're keeping your edge flow and that is good! one thing you can do to help your poly count would be to weld a number of vertices together, like the middle ones on the flat parts of your model. This will break your edge flow but you optimize once your done building it, but make sure to make a copy of it in case you want to go back and change something. you have some really nice clean edges on some parts of your gun, but that is best saved for the highpoly and baked into a normal map, I can understand if you're just starting out and haven't touched normals yet and that's fine, just something to keep in mind when you get to that point!
[QUOTE=Azzator;40686981]I did another gun model. I'm posting the frames like before so you guys can hopefully comment on my (horrible?) technique. :v:
Mesh:
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh2.PNG[/thumb]
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh.PNG[/thumb]
Wireframes:
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe_3.PNG [/thumb]
[thumb] http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe_2.PNG[/thumb]
[thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/mp40_mesh+wireframe.PNG[/thumb]
[editline]May 18th, 2013[/editline]
Also, 14k triangles? Is that too much?[/QUOTE]
your mesh is in smooth preview, 14k is the unsmoothed mesh, your current mesh should be around 56k tries. If you plan on baking it on a low poly, don't use the smooth preview, use the actual smooth tool.
I noticed a lot of pinching in your high poly, usually due to edge loops on cylindrical surfaces, having n-gons in the high poly is fine as long as it's on a flat surface.
I hope this helps.
Low polly. I know I can make this lower by at least 2/5ths just with a texture map. Model is 14 polies under 5k. And yes, I know it has a very basic texture, I'm a modeler, not a texture artist.
[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/Soukonoung/Sidearm-1_zpse40c0b73.png[/img]
[QUOTE=angel natavi;40690487]Low polly. I know I can make this lower by at least 2/5ths just with a texture map. Model is 14 polies under 5k. And yes, I know it has a very basic texture, I'm a modeler, not a texture artist.
[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/Soukonoung/Sidearm-1_zpse40c0b73.png[/img][/QUOTE]
That thing looks insanely heavy
Well, sheet metal instead of the heavy duty solid metal makes up the clip guard paneling, so its lighter than it looks. But yeah, it is very muzzle heavy.
Looks like the snub pistol from Gears of War
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;40690989]Looks like the snub pistol from Gears of War[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the samething.
[QUOTE= The Internet][IMG]http://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/AUTOIMAGES/PTGOWSSlg.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
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The "Model/Skin" Pimpage/WIP Thread V7
