Demon's Souls - Tower Knight - Developers

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45903252]I haven't had a chance to look at the models weighting because I don't use SFM so I can't critique on that yet nor will I seeing as your reactions to my current critique.[/QUOTE] The weights on the model are original, they're the same as the ones ingame. Also, is this what you think of metal here: [T]http://i.imgur.com/C6v3fWR.png[/T]

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45903082]Regardless of your personal views it's still a critique of the model. Also you can always improve on fromsofts efforts, I can't even think of an excuse of why you couldn't.[/QUOTE] Collision models are a pain (not hard but annoying to do right), and most people just want it for sfm, so they hardly ever bother with making it for garrysmod. It's like, why would you go through extra work to port something to CS 1.6 from source if you never play 1.6? [QUOTE='Ninja Nub[NOR];45903190']well: step one would be to give it a metallic look instead of this ugly grease look you've got going nevermind that it looked like that in the game i mean it still looked [I]bad[/I][/QUOTE] Source's lighting always looks greasy at high-contrast, even your models, so I wouldn't fret about it. (Also low-res stuff ALWAYS looks greasy.) And this is for fan stuff, and fans usually want it as close as it can to the original.

Instead of just saying "shaders are greasy", please explain yourself as what you mean by "greasy" and how it could be improved, instead of using it as a cheap excuse for not having a .phy.

[QUOTE='Ninja Nub[NOR];45903190']well: step one would be to give it a metallic look instead of this ugly grease look you've got going nevermind that it looked like that in the game i mean it still looked [I]bad[/I][/QUOTE] I'm not saying it didn't look bad. Hell trying to find some reference shots was hell in of itself since I myself have never played Demon's Souls and all of them were loss res and compressed. Does it need work? Totally. I just don't think an even more metallic look is the way to go. I mean hell the materials were written for garrysmod and we still don't have any shots of that; so here's a model viewer shot. [IMG]http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/248/f/a/look_at_it__by_blueflytrap998-d7y3awz.jpg[/IMG] This is what I used for reference. [IMG]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F9z7JU6pq8I/maxresdefault.jpg[/IMG] I could probably tighten the exponent a little. Don't want to make it too much brighter though. A tad more intense and even the dimmest light will generate bloom.

Toned down the reflectiveness just a bit. Thoughts? [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/RfInTyD.png[/thumb]

[QUOTE=NikouT;45903261]How is this even a critique if you never looked at the model inside of a program then? That's exactly what I was pointing out in a sarcastic format to everyone here, making this look like a competition who's materials are better. If you took this serious, you have issues.[/QUOTE] did you really just go "i wasn't being serious i was just pretending to be serious" I assure u my good man I'm very level-headed right now. I mean overall it's not a bad port by an stretch from what I can tell it has nice weighting as it's the vanilla in-game one and it's scaled correctly too. That edit looks a lot better katra, nice improvement.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45903421]did you really just go "i wasn't being serious i was just pretending to be serious" I assure u my good man I'm very level-headed right now. That edit looks a lot better katra, nice improvement.[/QUOTE] Thought you gonna really notice this as a sarcasm, but seems I was wrong and decided to help out. you are always welcome.

[QUOTE=Katra804;45903392]Toned down the reflectiveness just a bit. Thoughts? [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/RfInTyD.png[/thumb][/QUOTE] okay, what this is here is you're basically destroying the fresnel. i think what would be better is something like this: [T]http://i.imgur.com/ts80dkS.png[/T] this achieves the more metallic look, it's still just iffy tbh though

What kind of metallic do you want anyway. I could give it something like, say, a mirror polish just by changing the phong parameters. [T]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/248/1/9/2_by_blueflytrap998-d7y3gp9.jpg[/T]

[QUOTE=Katra804;45903392]Toned down the reflectiveness just a bit. Thoughts? [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/RfInTyD.png[/thumb][/QUOTE] This one looks the best. This dude is clearly wearing scuffed up, semi-rusted, damaged armor. There's no reason for him to be ultra shiny like everyone here is doing. Trying to emulate Demon's Souls' shaders is retarded because the game has terrible graphics and nothing looks right as a result. Throwing an additional scratched metal detail texture over this one might make it look even better.

Honestly, I was trying to go for the more worn-out appearance when I adjusted the .VMT file. Looking at the texture itself, the armor seems like it's a bit more worn from time and just a little bit grimier than what the current settings in the .VMT allow for that appearance. I'm still trying to tweak it properly though, because it still doesn't look entirely right to me. I will say this though; I think the funniest part about the first edits I made is the fact that I honestly don't mess with phong settings often enough to be confident in what changes I make. :suicide:

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45897596]didn't even make a collision model and hence physmodel scrub. [editline]5th September 2014[/editline] why are all sfm content makers so lazy except for a couple people like fat-corgi-guy and his payday swats[/QUOTE] Jesus christ Jenkins. Can't you be happy that someone put the model out at least, even if it's SFM? Not everyone knows how to port stuff properly in gmod or sfm, It's not a big deal. Why do you need to complain about everything that you want? Or are you just speaking for someone else here it seems, considering this happened before. That is just plain rude, and a pointless drama this was created over. For a model? seriously? In any case, Here's your Gmod Version. Had to do more work than it should have been, but it's good to go, so enough of this drama bullshit over it. If anything is wrong with it, please let me know. I had to redo most of it, for gmod. [url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=310566907]Download Gmod WorkShop Version Here[/url] (Also, yah it's a bit shinny on gmod, hopefully Blue will be able to adjust this) [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36641232/tp2_sky_030004.jpg[/img]

What drama are you talking about, things didn't really get that out of hand, also you're pretty late with that response. also what exactly do you mean "why do you have to complain about everything you want" I don't recall doing this sort of thing multiple times in the past? and what do you mean "considering this happened before", I don't recall this same thing happening before and if it did I wasn't even involved. also "all over a model" really? all I said was it could use some extra work why are you acting like it's some big fight it was just a couple people exchanging opinions on a model, honestly it feels like some of you were hyping it up a lot more than it needed be and making it personal and stuff. And the thought that this is even related to Ninja's thread is a paranoid delusion. How exactly was I being "plain rude" all I was saying was it should have a phymodel and the shaders could use improving.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45906555]What drama are you talking about, things didn't really get that out of hand, also you're pretty late with that response. also what exactly do you mean "why do you have to complain about everything you want" I don't recall doing this sort of thing multiple times in the past? and what do you mean "considering this happened before", I don't recall this same thing happening before and if it did I wasn't even involved. also "all over a model" really? all I said was it could use some extra work why are you acting like it's some big fight it was just a couple people exchanging opinions on a model, honestly it feels like some of you were hyping it up a lot more than it needed be and making it personal and stuff. And the thought that this is even related to Ninja's thread is a paranoid delusion. How exactly was I being "plain rude" all I was saying was it should have a phymodel and the shaders could use improving.[/QUOTE] If you don't mean the pointless rude argument that was in the first page, then you're blind. Doesn't change anything if it was a late reply or not. We're all in a different time zone. Did you not even read your own post, the one i even just quoted? So it's not "rude" to just call out someone being a "scrub" and "lazy" for not putting it into gmod? You went out your way just to be an ass for no reasons, and just act like that. Huh. So that's not "plain rude". and what does he have anything to do with what you're doing, also? We were talking about you, not him. It wouldn't have been rude, if you could have actually just said; "please add phymodels and perhaps look into the shaders more", but no, you didn't instead, you were just being a jerk about it, for no valid reasons. Criticism is fine and all, but the comment I quoted you for, was not.

scrub and lazy are not very meaningful insults, I think you're taking it a bit too seriously also posting a bit of text isn't "going out of the way" it's in fact very easy.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45906984]scrub and lazy are not very meaningful insults, I think you're taking it a bit too seriously also posting a bit of text isn't "going out of the way" it's in fact very easy.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate it if someone went out of their ways to just say you're a lazy shit and a scrub who can't put stuff into gmod, because they can't? You know what i meant, you just decided to say non-sense rude reply over it. Who care if it's not on gmod or not, you made quite a big deal over it. What's important is there was content being put into source for SFM or Gmod, instead of none.

Thanks for making it Gmod-able, Nexus, really appreciate it.

[QUOTE=Nexus_Elite;45907070]Pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate it if someone went out of their ways to just say you're a lazy shit and a scrub who can't put stuff into gmod, because they can't? You know what i meant, you just decided to say non-sense rude reply over it. Who care if it's not on gmod or not, you made quite a big deal over it. What's important is there was content being put into source for SFM or Gmod, instead of none.[/QUOTE] i didn't call him a lazy shit that's your words not mine, I just called him lazy. also it wasn't really a big deal it was just a deal. But honestly whats the point of even talking about this anymore it was on the other page, people had moved on before you decided to pipe up.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45907106]i didn't call him a lazy shit that's your words not mine, I just called him lazy. also it wasn't really a big deal it was just a deal. But honestly whats the point of even talking about this anymore it was on the other page, people had moved on before you decided to pipe up.[/QUOTE] Still stand what i'm trying to say, rather than you beating around the bush about it. That's not the point, of exact words. But i'm sure you wouldn't much like it either if it happened to you as well, that's the point here. Still made a scene over it, regardless. Can you please stop it, and just next time actually not be rude over it, next time you feel the need to say you just wanted it on gmod? I mean it just simpler for to say you wanted it on gmod, instead of calling them lazy, scrub, and comparing them to others who are 'better'. Because just like you, I wish to say something. So if you have a problem, then don't bother being a jerk in the first place.

or we could just you know not take little things personally because we're grown ups. if people want to say my ports are a piece of shit fine they could definitely use some improvement.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45907147]or we could just you know not take things personally because we're grown ups. if people want to say my ports are a piece of shit fine they probably are.[/QUOTE] It's you that needs to grow up, to be honest. Sorry. Not being sarcastic, or rude. It just all of these arguments over a model, it's just absurd.

nobody's arguing anymore, like you literally came in beating the drums after the "argument" was over. maybe you should take some of your own "growing up" advice. like literally right now it's just me replying to you only.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45907184]nobody's arguing anymore, like you literally came in beating the drums after the "argument" was over. maybe you should take some of your own "growing up" advice. like literally right now it's just me replying to you only.[/QUOTE] Like I said, I felt like I needed to put my own opinions over it. This isn't something i replied over a month ago. You haven't changed at all, Jenkins, kind of sad.

[QUOTE=Nexus_Elite;45907224]You haven't changed at all, Jenkins, kind of sad.[/QUOTE] Right back atcha!

[QUOTE=Nexus_Elite;45907135] Still made a scene over it, regardless. Can you please stop it, and just next time actually not be rude over it, next time you feel the need to say you just wanted it on gmod? I mean it just simpler for to say you wanted it on gmod, instead of calling them lazy, scrub, and comparing them to others who are 'better'. [/QUOTE] Lol, where do you get off being so condescending? Is this just the language barrier garbling things or are you literally dictating what he should and should not say? Because he's entitled to say what he likes. You aren't taking any high roads or making yourself out to be the better man here by condescending and talking down to him as if you're some authority.

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;45908231]entitled[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45907245]Right back atcha![/QUOTE] How about you stop bickering? While he may be a bit abrasive, you were being no better in any case. I do not think I was being all very kind myself, however this is going on too far and what's happening is you're beating a dead horse for no good reason.

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;45908231]Lol, where do you get off being so condescending? Is this just the language barrier garbling things or are you literally dictating what he should and should not say? Because he's entitled to say what he likes. You aren't taking any high roads or making yourself out to be the better man here by condescending and talking down to him as if you're some authority.[/QUOTE] Not really, I just believe it was rather rude matter to approach at, rather than just asking about the problems to be solved. Same can be said for everyone else here, to have their own entitlement to what they want to say, you're going to expect someone is going to reply back at it. Sorry If I'm sounding forward in my post. I just meant it can rather rude to others, for something they worked hard on putting into Source.

Now if we could get physmodels for the other Dark Souls models that have been ported...

Let me fill you guys in on what I assume has just happened. I could be wrong but given how everything just played out I think it's less actual criticism and more just shitposting. It all goes back to the resistance 2 hybrid thread. Ageha tried to give criticism of a sort. How successful he was is up to debate. [QUOTE=Ageha;45667667]The constraints are not all that great, especially on the shoulders. They're very awkward to pose. The rigging on the forearms, around the elbow, is really, really weird and unnatural. On the left forearm, rather than bending at the elbow, bends right above at the forearm at the upper arm. The spine bones are also particularly extremely weird in terms of rigging. Around the little ridge on the second physmodeled spine bone is uneven on the opposite side; You should really mirror your rigging, otherwise it turns out much worse than not. The neck is also pretty strange as it has these few verts moving alongside with it rather than both sides. Again, you should mirror your model's rigging. The legs are just really, really weird, too. I'll be blunt, they're kinda shit, because not only is the kneepad on the Hybrid not really meant to move with the calf leg itself, I'd imagine. The hip armor on the right leg clips real bad, you should probably do something about that because. I'm not even going to mention the second model, either, because there are places on certain bones that are weighted that should not be weighted, e.g. the forearm with the upperarm armor and the shoulder pauldrons clipping with itself, the same problem that your Raiden and Grey Fox suffered pretty badly. On both models, however, the hands have this rigging that's just weird. The shading is all sorts of... odd, to be honest, also. If I'm going to be blunt and honest, they look like shit. I understand it saves time to copy and paste VMT settings, but couldn't you put more effort into at least differentiating it even a little? It just draws my ire with how odd it looks. I look to this and then a couple of other releases you've done and you don't variate your materials nearly enough, you stick to a certain formula which isn't a bad thing, you just need to kinda deviate sometimes. This is just my view of it, however, and whether or not you disregard this is your choice. It's just my opinion that you've got a really, really weird and kinda not great model release going here, there's a lot you could improve on it. I don't really mean to insult you, just keep in mind that there are plenty of things you can do to improve the rigging on the model with consistency. Other than that, it's not too bad.[/QUOTE] Ninja Nub, being the author, replied with what would be an alright response. Please not the terminology. [QUOTE='Ninja Nub[NOR];45668013']well i'll keep your opinion in regard thing is that most people didn't have too many issues but hey if it's that major I might get to fixing it at a later point [B]also regarding the shaders, i thought giving it a different type of shader than the rubbery look they had in resistance, or the rather greasy look [I]some people[/I] give models, was a good idea[/B] [editline]a[/editline] [B]it's not like yours look any better[/B][/QUOTE] This is what probably set Ageha off, Because he wrote this in response. [QUOTE=Ageha;45669930]How queer of you to say that. Don't try to do anything like that because you haven't much of a say yourself when it comes to materials. Don't make yourself look high and mighty, because I know that you are exactly not that. If it pleases you, I did rush the materials while it was very late at night. But I do plan to redo some things, I always do. "Most people" is still not good enough in most cases. You still have tweaking to do, a lot of tweaking. Read up on how to mirror skin weights and it won't be as arduous. Rubbery look or not, your own personal judgement should be kept in mind. Greasy look is just from poor judgement on their end. And I will say this, you are in no place to judge like that because you are not any better at all. Your models, almost all of them, are extremely questionable in terms of shading. Unnecessary envmapping, wrong phong parameters, lack of attention to detail, I could list so many things wrong with many, many of your models. Don't say "yours doesn't look any better", because you messed up more models than not. Now, unless you plan to continue this irrational charade in this thread, take this to the PMs, I am not risking a ban.[/QUOTE] So this is why Ninja is here now. Looking for a way to shit on Ageha, or in this case my work, based on their own personal qualms with his response. Yeah it was a dickish response. We get that. For what it's worth they also made a sarcastic comment on Ageha's submission regarding 'shaders'. Just fwi they're called materials. Hell just calling it shading would be better but I'm getting ahead of myself. And now for the obligatory response from Jenkins. [QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45670005]nah man your models are way worse[/QUOTE] So that was the hybrid thread. It wouldn't mean anything now if not for what happened just yesterday. 3 weeks pass. Jenkins shows up to shitpost. None of them mattered until we got this one. [QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45902637]Except with this particular model and this particular release it is not too high-poly nor would it have more bones than a GMOD addon could handle, for this particular release there is no excuse to not create your own working gmod version other than lack of knowledge and or leading to lazyness. And I've been in this modelling community for quite some time, from what I've observed and my personal experiance in porting 99 percent of the time the reason why someone does a SFM only release is purely because they can't be bothered putting in the extra effort to get it also working in GMOD and most of the time it's unwillingness to work with older compile tools or just to simply get a collision model working what I will assure you is not that hard. [B]Also the shaders could use some work he looks a bit too greasy.[/B] I don't see the point in getting an entirely different user to do something for you that is as easy as making a collision model. Also my statement "sfm content makers are lazy" is due to the fact that most gmod content creators eg. Ninja Nub or bloocobalt put in the extra effort to make it work in both gmod and sfm where-as most pure SFM content creators don't put in the extra effort to get it working in GMOD. Also GMOD being technologically outdated or not it still has a large user-base on facepunch and in this sub-forum especially.[/QUOTE] First off he didn't read the op. That's already bad enough. Then we have some terminology returning. Man it would be great if Ninja didn't rate all of his post moments after they were made too but that doesn't matter yet. [QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45902962]looks like someone doesn't want critique...[/QUOTE] This is important. Later he states he can't even give critique because he's never even looked at the model. The way he says it, however, is a mockery of actual if misplaced critique on the part of Ageha. At this point I called both him and Ninja out stating that he didn't even make the materials. I originally authored them yeah. Ninja shows up minutes later. [QUOTE='Ninja Nub[NOR];45903190']well: step one would be to give it a metallic look instead of this ugly grease look you've got going nevermind that it looked like that in the game i mean it still looked [I]bad[/I][/QUOTE] Funny. It's almost as if Jenkins has been saying just that. Granted this is probably the most polite response out of all of them. Then we have the best of all [QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;45903252]I haven't had a chance to look at the models weighting because I don't use SFM so I can't critique on that yet nor will I seeing as your reactions to my current critique.[/QUOTE] So he didn't even look at it. The only reason he is here is because the thread op is Ageha; of which he doesn't like id that hasn't been set in stone already. TL;DR: The only reason Jenkins and Ninja commented at all is that they're bitter at a poorly worded response. Why they're mad I have no idea. It's a model port. You didn't even make it. Want to see actual citicism? Ninja's rising ports are good. Great rigging and pretty solid materials. How they set the phongexponent masks is questionable but it works in the end so who cares. Self illum could use some fresnel ranges but that's a matter of preference. The only real problem I have with them is how the smoothing groups are set; but I can't even blame them for being wrong. I've never met something in the porting community who understands the importance of correct smoothing when baked normalmaps are involved. It's less of a visual thing during modeling and more about low vertex counts. It's a pretty negligible issue. Overall they're pretty good. Was that so hard? I didn't even need to call you lazy or your work bad. I would very much appreciate it if you guys posted your actual thoughts and not just something bitter. I'm going over the materials again today and I'll wait and see what you have to say.