[QUOTE=Miles_The_Target;15633930]you have obviously never USED hammer. you have to click and drag a box on 3 separate windows to get it where you want it, then hit enter, then set the textures, then do it all over again, for EVER WALL. Everything about this program is counterintuitive. valve needs to get off there asses and remake Hammer, because I would place money that the reason that HL2 Ep 3 is taking as long as it is in dev time is 80% maps because of how ass backwards and dated hammer is.
[b]100% of my map in sketchup is planar. I have 0 curves.[/b] you hear that? ZERO CURVES AND NO CONVEX SURFACES, Every shape has been broken down into convex shapes, and guess what? when I export it STILL GIVES ME AN EMPTY MAP!
I really am going to have to start from the ground up AGAIN.[/QUOTE]
But, there clearly is a curve... Also the entire scene in sketchup exports as a single brush unless you specify otherwise, which causes hammer to not load said brush.
So, I have finally gotten this working, and only just came back. My problem was that the plugin was broken.
Download Source SDK
Open SourceSDK.GCF
-
SourceSDK.GCF/Sketchup/Valve_Library/_source
SourceSDK.GCF/Sketchup/Valve_Library/Counter strike - source
SourceSDK.GCF/Sketchup/Valve_Library/Half life 2
SourceSDK.GCF/Sketchup/Valve_Library/Left4Dead
SourceSDK.GCF/Sketchup/Valve_Library/Portal
SourceSDK.GCF/Sketchup/ -- Various plugins in this folder for sketchup
you do not need L4D to use the Sketchup to Hammer plugin,
You DO legally need L4D to use L4D content that was included WITH the plugin. if your using the Source SDK version, with the orange box, you get the orange box content, which you can use, and THATS what I'm doing.
Now, As for why use sketchup instead of hammer... I'm used to CTRL being the hotkey for copy, not shift. Shift is used for inference locks in sketchup, which I know inside and out because its so damn easy.
Now i do know how to use hammer, but the only thing I use it for is textures, entities, the skybox, and game mode specific things like capture point in TF2.
Why would I use sketchup? I'll list a few reasons.
Rotate by angle (down to 0.00000001 degrees or some crap, you can actually type that value)
Rotate on point
Copy by rotate
Copy by move
Copy by rotate from point
Snap to point
Snap to midpoint
Snap to edge
Snap to intersection
Snap to face
Rotate on midpoint
Rotate on Edge
Other useful tools include the ability to create Guide-lines that do not export, so that you can make all your doors line up to the micron, or walls be at exact angles.
One prime example of this is in the map i've finally got working, I just need to get a working skybox and light sources.
Create a box IE Brush.
draw a circle on the ground,
align the brush to face the circle's midpoint
Rotate & copy the brush on the midpoint of the circle, at 5 degrees
Select both, copy and rotate on 10 degrees
repeat for 20 degrees
repeat for 40 degrees, ad infinitum until you have a closed circle.
you now have a circular room, made of 72 brushes, and it took you less than 2 minutes.
want to add a door? no problem, select a brush, edit it, push/pull a surface out of the way until you have a doorway.
My map consists of over 1200 brushes, which fit together seamlessly, and it took me under an hour. 120 rooms. done. I'll be making a more detailed tutorial and posting it on FPSBannana, now that I know what the hell i'm doing.
What's with all the fucking idiots in this thread saying about how the sketchup plugin is for l4d only. Seriously, if you've ever read in your life you'd of noticed that Valve have it up for download on the VDC.
Also, why not just use hammer? Google Sketchup is a piece of shit to be quite honest.
Legend286, quite simply, as I said in my last post, Rotating from a point, IE copy via orbit. I like having a circular building for starters, I like not having to use the grid that hammer gives (I can make things in size increments of 1/16 inches, and hammer accepts them)
And furthermore, Sketchup loads for me in 12 seconds, Hammer takes 2 minutes.
loading .skp files takes all of 2 seconds, Loading anything in hammer takes 12
saving in sketchup takes 2 seconds, Compiling to BSP takes me about 5 minutes.
hammer = lag. and to be quite honest, Sketchup is made 100% for maps, in that regard it's not a piece of shit. If your trying to use sketchup to do player models or guns, of course its shit.
anyway my map should be about finished, I just have to get the skybox right, and place capture points and I'm done and ready to upload to places.
anyone want screencaps (I changed the team bases, and added separate spawns for GMod specifically)
anyway i'm done here, you guys are to biased for me.
Pics would be pretty nice. I am glad that you got it going in the end.
[QUOTE=Miles_The_Target;16009671]Legend286, quite simply, as I said in my last post, Rotating from a point, IE copy via orbit. I like having a circular building for starters, I like not having to use the grid that hammer gives (I can make things in size increments of 1/16 inches, and hammer accepts them)
And furthermore, Sketchup loads for me in 12 seconds, Hammer takes 2 minutes.
loading .skp files takes all of 2 seconds, Loading anything in hammer takes 12
saving in sketchup takes 2 seconds, Compiling to BSP takes me about 5 minutes.
hammer = lag. and to be quite honest, Sketchup is made 100% for maps, in that regard it's not a piece of shit. If your trying to use sketchup to do player models or guns, of course its shit.
anyway my map should be about finished, I just have to get the skybox right, and place capture points and I'm done and ready to upload to places.
anyone want screencaps (I changed the team bases, and added separate spawns for GMod specifically)
anyway i'm done here, you guys are to biased for me.[/QUOTE]
1)Hammer has Paste Special, meaning you can move or rotate an object while copying it, and copy it multiple times while repeating the same movement or rotation
2)moving or rotating something to .0000001 degrees or units will move vertices off grid, messing up your visleafs and making your map compile take much, much longer.
3) "Mapping" in sketchup will DEFINITELY destroy any optimization the engine has set. Your brushwork will be unaligned, you will get hundreds, if not thousands of extra visleafs from your unoptimized brushwork. You would also need to spend time to raise/lower the lightmap grids because you couldn't do that as you were working.
4) The reason sketchup loads faster than hammer does is because hammer has to mount GCF's. It loads up in about 5-10 seconds for me, don't know where you got 2 minutes.
5) Make a fair comparison, sketchup is CAD software, you don't need to compile. So how long does it take to save a .vmf? You do realize it has an autosave feature every few minutes, it saves so fast you don't even notice it. Compiling does a fuck-ton of more things than saving a text file does. First, it splits your brushwork into wireframes, removes brush backsides, divides the map into visleafs, then calculates the visibility of each visleaf to every other visleaf in the map, and finally calculates raytraced lighting based on lightmaps. It would be similar to a render, only it calculates every part of the map, not just the area you are rendering. Small maps compile in 3-4 seconds, 6 with lighting.
6) the lag is caused by (I assume) the caching of your vmf file in RAM, and it lags because it loads vmf data from the hard drive when you move.
[QUOTE=robmaister12;16012598]Rumours, myths and slight truth...[/QUOTE]
Vis leaves don't have to be square you know.
Paste special is nothing like what he wants/needs.
Off grid vertices don't instantly destroy a map. You just need to use caution and know a little about how to not ass-rape the engine.
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;16012661]Vis leaves don't have to be square you know.
Paste special is nothing like what he wants/needs.
Off grid vertices don't instantly destroy a map. You just need to use caution and know a little about how to not ass-rape the engine.[/QUOTE]
I know, but seeing that image on the OP, if that level of curve quality were retained (I am assuming that would be hundreds of brushes), you would get hundreds of additional visleafs, making the time for VVIS to finish will skyrocket. Also, raising lightmap grids will speed up BuildVisLeafs.
My understanding is mine, I am sure there are still some myths/inaccuracies in what I know of Hammer. I have been mapping for a few months, I am still learning a bunch of more advanced stuff, mostly about optimization, detail, and the compiler. I've already had several misconceptions proven incorrect, feel free to let me know specifics, it's helps me.
Well, it looks like an eighth of one of the outer walls (the distance between 2 of the blue lines) is only about 6 segments, so it shouldn't have many more brushes than any other map.
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;16012661]Vis leaves don't have to be square you know.
Paste special is nothing like what he wants/needs.
[B]Off grid vertices don't instantly destroy a map[/B]. You just need to use caution and know a little about how to not ass-rape the engine.[/QUOTE]
Make a map and create a sphere.
Safe the map and reopen it and you shall see how off grid vertices's can fuck around.
Zyx, there's a difference between off-grid verts that all lie on a planer surface and ones on a sphere that create an invalid brush.
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;16013264]Well, it looks like an eighth of one of the outer walls (the distance between 2 of the blue lines) is only about 6 segments, so it shouldn't have many more brushes than any other map.[/QUOTE]
Oh right, smoothing groups :v:
wow finally positive responses.
For the 'vis leaf' stuff I honestly don't know what that is, BUT I did discover that initially terrain blinking, so I re-built it from the ground up again.
Each circle, does maintain more-or-less that much curve. Each full circle is made up of 72 brushes, on 5 degree angles. I have I think 17000+ surfaces, I do not know how to reduce the number of surfaces.
It took my machine 45 minutes to compile to BSP, it took just as long to load in game as 2fort. I don't mind long compile times as long as it runs.
I have to add resupply, and capture points. I have to change a few textures here and there, and otherwise I'd call it done. Unfortunately every tutorial i've found for those are needlessly complex, so i've sort of hit a brick wall and have to find a way through.
also I read something about wanting screencaps? I'll be getting to work on that, as screencaps in sketchup, screencaps in hammer, and screencaps in game. I will photobucket them, and post once I have 'enough' screencaps to really showcase this map. I will accept suggestions for textures, and even help with anything.
---EDIT---
I didn't take the time to load hammer because it takes to long, and Its 3 AM.
I loaded sketchup took screencaps, wrote comments.
Uploading to photobucket and making a huge post would take to long.
I .rar'd all the screencaps, with a text file explenation of each, for whats what, and have uploaded to Megaupload.
Link here
[url]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2XGQ8U6W[/url]
Well to potentially demolish this insane pile of crappy expired logic that has a occurred for the first 80% of the content here in the previous posts that simply ridiculed a fellow map dev in a belittling manner rather than particularly assisting him-I'd love to help end this on a positive note.
1) Valve Hammer Source SDK Editor is freaking amazing. As the classical genius' stated, it's CAD based now remember this when you imagine how slow and engineer based, and unrealistic it is to use a CAD based system 100% for map development when you're trying to create realistic worlds. [I've used every 3d editor there is, and I'm sorry folks but nothing can compare to the sheer speed and simplicity wrapped into Google Sketchup]
2) Google Sketchup is a the next cutting edge in development the the classical noobs of the previous trends of level development have not even seen. You freaking classical mathematical baboons, do you not realize much of the work done on L4d and L4d2 was done with Google Sketchup?
3) Sketchup lets you import from ANYTHING, seriously the list is virtually infinite and SourceSDK already has a streamlined name markup as you can see here: [url]http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SketchUp_to_Hammer_Export_plugin[/url] I can make entities from 3dsMax and pull them into draft level sketches made in sketchup, pull those drafts back to 3dsmax, perfect, enhance, smooth, optimize, then shoot it straight back to Sketchup, then send a nice handy .vmf out to HAMMER that actually creates brushes or model entities depending on how I name the files. Including spawn points and skyboxes.
4) I can take my 950mhz tablet pc out into the woods and use google sketchup to make some wild map designs, come back home and finalize my models in 3dsmax if I need to, send them back to sketchup and then complete the final 20% inside hammer.
5) Has anyone with HAMMER experience tried the Crysis Sandbox 2 editor or the newest Torque 3d Development system? HAMMER is/was starting to lag behind, it's way too classical and requires an insane amount of anal back and forths, and they knew it just as well as many experts would say, what was their solution? Google Sketchup guys... seriously. Lets put 2 and 2 together here, what's the next great thing on the Source engine? L4d2 right? Now what's l4d advocating along with Source engine in the last month? Google Sketchup.
6) Certainly there are reasons to keep the backbone of the HAMMER editor the way that it is or levels would end up a lot more sloppy and have all sorts of optimization errors, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be as easy as Sandbox 2 to pull in some awesome terrain, play around with general modeling aspects, and streamline your production communication system in order to optimize constructional efficiency.
7) Anyone who doesn't see the significance of Google Sketchup and it's vast potentials for upcoming developers on down to 4 years old is simply an old grump, who has fallen off the wave of development trends, and is too far behind to see what's to come.
8) If you haven't bothered learning Google Sketchup and you're here to debate these concepts, don't bother because actually, you're the n00b here. See for yourself, just watch the beginner view of how simplified sketchup is, then look at the most advanced video, it can do things that can take hours in 3dsMax or Valve HAMMER in matter of minutes, and it can do them just as good. [url]http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos/new_to_gsu.html[/url] Personally I prefer the most efficient solutions, if you don't see the value here you're only missing out. After you're an expert with this software, then you're very much invited to debate the use of Sketchup in conjunction with HAMMER and 3dsMax. But, as it sits today. The first modeling tool I pick up is Google Sketchup, then comes 3dsMax, and then comes HAMMER
9) Yes there are some guidelines to keep things streamlined, but that's true with any editor even hammer by itself. You could easily make a map in hammer that doesn't work at all, and there's pages and pages of documentation on how to avoid those problems, but Sketchup is so simple there's only one single page(linked above) required for following the rules and regulations needed export a map properly from Sketchup to HAMMER so they've certainly done something right.
10) The day I found out about this plugin 5 fellow map developers including myself were ready to have a party. The streamlining Sketchup will be the Sandbox 2 of seamless, wholesome integration into HAMMER from all foreign development applications, so get used to it, and join the fun.
Cheers,
Abe
[url]http://www.gamepublicist.com[/url]
[QUOTE=Miles_The_Target;15617574]except those curves are made of a few lines, I can actually refer to endpoints... I could always make it out of a bunch of squares. but that still doesn't fix my problem, [url]http://playuptools.blogspot.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
Dude, I have the plugin, it doesn't work the way you think it works, it's shit and offgrid and rarely converts stuff properly, learn2hammer.
Everyone who continues to talk crap about Sketchup though clearly is clueless to it's potential.
Simple photographic examples of Sketchup 2 HAMMER: [url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=922563&page=2[/url]
However a few weeks after finding Sketchup I see some hype surfacing about Microbrush 2. Now there is the hammer alternative for brush manipulation, WOW.
I tossed up an article on GPC:
[url]http://www.gamepublicist.com/map-level-editors/hammer-source-sdk-editor/microbrush-2.html[/url]
Shrinker's MicroBrush 2 Project Site:
[url]http://shrinker.beyond-veils.de/projects/Microbrush2/[/url]
Shrinker just added a small revision to v2 and it now includes a cylinder tool.
Anyway, there will always be a lot of controversy over how to make X map for Y game. But no matter what you choose just don't give up when you fail, and you'll eventually find a combination that works for you.
-Abe
[url]http://www.gamepublicist.com[/url]
Way to revive.
All it boils down to is what people are used to. Sure one editor might have arguably better features than the other, but that's useless unless people know how to use it. If you're used to hammer, use hammer, and if you're used to any other programs, use them. Great maps have been made by lots of different editors, so in the end it doesn't really matter which one you use.
Export it from sketch up to 3DSMAX and make it a prop?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
