Hollow is bad? - Developers

[QUOTE=TheHydra;19471882]What function did carve serve back then, anyway? Wouldn't it cause similar problems, or did the clip tool not exist, or what?[/QUOTE] Maybe the way Worldcraft compiled it's maps, it didn't cause problems.

LOL, when I first started mapping I made a tunnel system out of hollowed blocks and then carved out the entrances... It didn't work too well.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;19471882]What function did carve serve back then, anyway? Wouldn't it cause similar problems, or did the clip tool not exist, or what?[/QUOTE] Honestly? I'm not sure. The clip tool's always been around, as far as I know. The carve tool has always been shit. The shitty nature of the carve tool is like a constant of the universe- it is so, it has always been so, it will always be so.

[QUOTE=Lord Ned;19449872]VBSP will only merge the face under specific conditions. If the texture alignment, lightmaps, edges, etc are all aligned then yes. I have an email from Dario with his specific wording if you want.[/QUOTE] I knew that, I just didn't think that the discussion was gonna get that deep, so decided not to talk about it.

[QUOTE=Firegod522;19438495]2 vertical clips, then two horizontal on the two inside brushes. [editline]09:44PM[/editline] Like the top left of this picture. [img]http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9072/clipvscarve.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I get that carving is bad and we shouldn't use t, but that argument is invalid, horizontal lines are in no way less efficient than vertical, it all depends on placement and timing. Look what happens when i reverse the hole placement: [IMG]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9072/clipvscarve.jpg[/IMG] And the (2) line would also be there when clipping, it all depends on which order you create the windows in. I just thought I would point out that your point should not be the final reason to not use carve :) There are plenty of other reasons :P

You reversed the clip/carve labels actually.

[QUOTE=Lord Ned;19496766]You reversed the clip/carve labels actually.[/QUOTE] Nope Edit: Well yes i did but that was on purpose. He said horizontal lines (Which carve tool uses) are worse than vertical lines. Now horizontal lines are better.

[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;19441487]I was just passing through this thread and noticed something odd about this image. If you combine the 2 brushes in the following image that are contained within the green circle, they have the exact same number of brushes. Agreeably it's harder to tell what's going on in the 2D views but it's still the relatively the same, performance wise. I don't suggest using carve, but I don't see why it would be absolutely forbidden in some cases. [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/carvevsclip.png[/img][/QUOTE] Think about it like this: You want to move the larger window left 16 units and the smaller window up 8 units. With clip, you just move brush 1 over, then shift brushes 2 and 3 over to match brush 1 and extend brush 4 over. With carve, you would have to move brush 3 out, extend brushes 1,2, and 4, then shift brushes 1 and 2 left on the right side, and shift 5 and 6 to the left. Now with the small hole, clipped, you can vertex manipulate all the topmost vertices on brushes 1,2,4,5, and 7 up to the desired height, then adjust brushes 5 and 6 accordingly. If you were to carve the small hole, you would need to shift brush 1 up, expand brushes 2 and 8 to meet the bottom face of 1, then shift (or expand, depending on height) brushes 6 and 7 up to the bottom faces of 2 and 8, and finally expand brush 5 to meet the bottom of brushes 6 and 7. I personally think that clipping makes it easier and neater to modify brushwork after it has been made. Especially when dealing with more than one hole in the wall.

Now what if you wanted to move the larger window 16 [u]up[/u] and the smaller window 8 right?

[QUOTE=vBullshit;19497129]Now what if you wanted to move the larger window 16 [u]up[/u] and the smaller window 8 right?[/QUOTE] For clipping, just adjust brushes 2 and 3, until it's 16 units up. For the smaller window, adjust 4 and 7, then shift 5 and 6 over. For carving, delete or adjust brush 2 (depending on it's size), adjust brushes 3 and 6 to match up with the bottom of 2 (or 1 if 2 was deleted for being <16 units). Then adjust the bottom of brushes 3 and 5 to raise it up 16 units. Finally, adjust 4 to match up with the bottom of brushes 3 and 5. For the smaller window, Delete (or shrink - again, dependent on size) brushes 7 and 8, then adjust brushes 2 and 6 to keep with width of the hole. Carving is still a bit trickier. And remember that this is only for two carves in a wall, imagine how confusing it would get with 3 or 4 carves in a single wall.

[QUOTE=mr_fj;19496589]I get that carving is bad and we shouldn't use t, but that argument is invalid, horizontal lines are in no way less efficient than vertical, it all depends on placement and timing. Look what happens when i reverse the hole placement: [IMG]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9072/clipvscarve.jpg[/IMG] And the (2) line would also be there when clipping, it all depends on which order you create the windows in. I just thought I would point out that your point should not be the final reason to not use carve :) There are plenty of other reasons :P[/QUOTE] You assume I'd be using the clip tool as if I were the computer, I can't be bothered to draw another diagram, but if I wanted another window down there, those clip lines most definitely do not represent how I would do it.

[QUOTE=robmaister12;19498816]For clipping, just adjust brushes 2 and 3, until it's 16 units up. For the smaller window, adjust 4 and 7, then shift 5 and 6 over. For carving, delete or adjust brush 2 (depending on it's size), adjust brushes 3 and 6 to match up with the bottom of 2 (or 1 if 2 was deleted for being <16 units). Then adjust the bottom of brushes 3 and 5 to raise it up 16 units. Finally, adjust 4 to match up with the bottom of brushes 3 and 5. For the smaller window, Delete (or shrink - again, dependent on size) brushes 7 and 8, then adjust brushes 2 and 6 to keep with width of the hole. Carving is still a bit trickier. And remember that this is only for two carves in a wall, imagine how confusing it would get with 3 or 4 carves in a single wall.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=metallics;19502084]You assume I'd be using the clip tool as if I were the computer, I can't be bothered to draw another diagram, but if I wanted another window down there, those clip lines most definitely do not represent how I would do it.[/QUOTE] I agree that the carving tool probably cuts inefficiently, but what I was trying to disprove, was that he said vertical lines are better than horizontal lines... Which they obviously aren't!