[QUOTE=pinecleandog;46213284]Same problem we had, it's a non-diffuse shader. A blending one I think[/QUOTE]
If you're talking about the grey texture everywhere, then I'm pretty sure it was coloured by the model, by way of vertex colours. This allowed Rare to get more out of their paltry 4kb of texture cache by effectively using the same greyscale texture for multiple materials and substances.
This is, of course, a bit of a pain to recreate on modern hardware. :v:
Well, I still have that Freezeezy Peak map made by 8bitsandwich which I use only privately, but I'm quite sure he would refuse any upload of it ( though he's not involved in Source games mapping anymore ) because this used to be one of his maps that was restricted and protected, so I guess that a remake is a better idea. Btw, good job on the Spiral Mountain ! I'll play on it as soon as it's ready to be used in TF2/Gmod.
Hold on. You saying someone actually turned my rip into a useable map? I'd suggest you get in contact with him again about it.
Nah seriously it would be useless, he only uploaded Windfall Island and Delfino Plaza long ago because those two maps got stolen, but his other maps were protected with a script that made them only playable on his server ( which I removed for my private server ) but then his server died and he didn't publish his work, also I lost contact with him since long now. He already refused to publish Freezeezy Peak when he was porting maps for TF2, I don't see why he would accept now that he left. This map is not supposed to exist since more than 1 year now it's really old, I bet than 8bit himself doesn't have this map anymore. Also, you said you already had a full rip which is a good start, sorry but asking 8bit would be a waste of time.
EDIT : If you really want to try it I could send it to you, but I'm sure many other people want to play Freezeezy, that's the main reason I said a public remake would be better.
Well my rip is from 2009. I'd at least want to see if this map actually used it considering it was for the B-K source Project.
Sure, well I'll add you on Steam so I can send you a download link ( I'll delete it as soon as you got the map ). But I can't do it until Friday due to the fact the map is on my main computer which I can't use for the moment.
[QUOTE=Mastmario;46230081]but his other maps were protected with a script that made them only playable on his server[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mastmario;46230081]
He already refused to publish Freezeezy Peak when he was porting maps for TF2[/QUOTE]
What's the need for that level of protection? Seems like the most short-sighted method of protecting one's maps. It's not as if the server would never die, so it annoys me that he took a rather selfish standpoint on it.
-Snip- ( View 8bitsandwich's post below )
Right, I'm the selfish one - for spending years releasing maps for free and never requesting (nor ever receiving) even a single donation of any sort. I even released Click Clock Wood v2 (a major update that added many new areas and even a spawnable Gruntilda boss) for public use during those months my server was alive. I could have easily kept that update to myself.
I didn't create my own server until several years after I had already released a huge amount of content for public use. The server was the first time I had ever asked anything back from the community for my effort. I was ignored.
Those maps were my server's lifeblood. They were the sole reason the server existed. By taking their exclusivity away, the ability for the server to remain alive was damaged. The goal was to encourage donations to the server so I would be able to continue pumping out more maps for you all. I had so many more in developement and nearly finished (including Mad Monster Mansion), but near the end when it became obvious the server was going to die I withheld from releasing them and accepted my losses instead. I lost hundreds of dollars on that server and never made any of it back. I wasted countless hours making those maps, only for greedy selfish server admins like yourselves to end up making bank off my effort. After the server died, I even refunded in full every donation the server had received, to every person who had donated (only 3 people ever did).
You don't get it dude. And FYI, the Freezeezy map was stolen by the Xeno clowns right from the beginning. Meaning, I don't care what anyone does with it anymore - it's already a loss anyway. Post it, I don't care. I accepted my time in the Source community was a colossal waste of time a very long time ago, I've moved on and I'm doing bigger and better things. Feel free to continue demonizing me though. :) It just further validates my decision to leave and further proves this was the wrong audience to give my work away to.
What the hell? Demonizing you? You seriously think I'm one of those guys who just whine all the time no matter the effort you did? Heck no you don't get it. I'm just saying that you were a great map maker and porter ( okay I prefer Litronom's work but that's my opinion ) and that's a shame that all is lost. Why do you think I kept your maps since that long? Because I enjoyed your work and I still do. Well, I mean, you were protecting many of your maps ( except yes really sorry I forgot to mention Click Clock and some others that you published ) and you seemed so angry when Xenogamers published your maps without your agreement, I took it as a selfish attitude of your part, sorry if I misunderstood. Though that seems unbelievable to you, I respect you and okay what I said previously in the end was just dumb, I won't publish your map, though you say you don't care. If you really didn't Freezeezy and Forest Temple would be on your workshop by now.
EDIT : And yes I know what you're creating now, I still take a look at your blog sometimes. And I remember you gave me back my money when I donated :) though it was a small donation.
Way to 180 like that when called out in what seems like an attempt to convince 8bit to release those maps.
Well that's that I guess.
[QUOTE=paulisdead18;46235817]Way to 180 like that when called out in what seems like an attempt to convince 8bit to release those maps.[/QUOTE]
Seriously ? Think whatever you like, I could just upload all his protected maps there without his approval as well... I was just emitting critics then explaining myself, for me if he approved all his work would be at his workshop that's pure logic... he's not approving the release of those maps that's all, and his reaction does simply prove it. I just wanted to help Glaber at first, then i got asked about the protection so yes, I dared to criticize his way to protect and not share some of his maps, is that a crime ?
Enough of this, let's come back to the main subject which was BK maps.
Could the protection be bypassed using a program like entspy?
Well, if I remember well that's what I used, I deleted some entities, fixed some others which were broken after removal, and it works ( but only in TF2, for some reason it won't start in Gmod ).
[QUOTE=8BitSandwich;46233886]. I accepted my time in the Source community was a colossal waste of time a very long time ago, I've moved on and I'm doing bigger and better things. Feel free to continue demonizing me though. :) It just further validates my decision to leave and further proves this was the wrong audience to give my work away to.[/QUOTE]
If I may comment on this from a general point of view (I don't play/map for gmod);
The whole reason I create maps & more is because [i]i like it[/i]. Trying to make money on something you do as a hobby is always a bad investment, no matter the subject, because you always spend more time on the subject than it's worth, [i]because you like it[/i].
Mapping alone doesn't just give me satisfaction, the fact that people actually enjoy and use my work is worth the world to me. If it's a populated server you wanted, perhaps you should look into other things than mapping, or host others people content as well. I for one have made several maps and custom game modes in the past that had no dedicated server for them. Whenever someone actually does host them or even comments on the workshop submissions, that says enough for me; people appreciate what I created, 90% of the people that play maps don't even use the workshop, let alone comment there. As long as you are trying your best to contain the maps in one server, you are being selfish. Not because you don't want to give away your maps, but because you should be making maps for people to enjoy. If that is not want you try to achieve by making maps, perhaps you should play offline with bots or close friends. If it's money you are trying to get out of it, you shouldn't be doing it for someone else's game imho.
If I'm wrong about what you are trying to get out of the whole mapping hobby, please enlighten me as I'm curious what your motivation is to make maps otherwise.
[QUOTE=Spherix;46237745]The whole reason I create maps & more is because i like it. Trying to make money on something you do as a hobby is always a bad investment...you are being selfish. Not because you don't want to give away your maps, but because you should be making maps for people to enjoy. [/QUOTE]
He did make maps for people to enjoy and was publicly releasing them one by one after the community got a chance to see them on his server. The community was his motivation, not the money despite his maps taking a considerable amount of hours to put together, the maps he created were very large and server owners were telling him they wouldn't host the maps so he made a server so people could see them, he generally released them unprotected a week or two later anyways...
The problem is that people kept taking the work he created and continued to upload it to the workshop, not only that but certain people were actually claiming they made the work themselves, a direct attack on him.
With myself being a content developer as well, I would certainly feel heartbroken and betrayed if someone stole my work and claimed it as their own, which is how he felt. Those who have had this happen to them know what I'm talking about, it really hurts and it makes you not want to release more things, fearing it may continue.
In regards the the financial loss he mentioned, he wasn't aiming that comment at the people who played on his server for not donating... it was aimed at the people I mentioned above, the ones taking credit for his work encouraging other people to not play on his server.
In the very least, he was at least hoping to make back the money he paid for the server, and even then he never required anyone to donate or even advertised donations...
[QUOTE=Spherix;46237745]As long as you are trying your best to contain the maps in one server, you are being selfish. Not because you don't want to give away your maps, but because you should be making maps for people to enjoy.[/QUOTE]
In my humble opinion it's problematic that you point your finger toward a Mapper as if he/she is the bad guy here. If a Mapper wants to keep a map for a specific server just let him/her. Calling them selfish just because they want to make sure that their hard work is protected is not justified.
[I]I beg you. Please respect the choices made by the mapper. I think that's the least thing the Community could give to a Mapper that has been giving us so much.[/I]
[QUOTE=Spherix;46237745]If I may comment on this from a general point of view (I don't play/map for gmod);
The whole reason I create maps & more is because [i]i like it[/i]. Trying to make money on something you do as a hobby is always a bad investment, no matter the subject, because you always spend more time on the subject than it's worth, [i]because you like it[/i].
Mapping alone doesn't just give me satisfaction, the fact that people actually enjoy and use my work is worth the world to me. If it's a populated server you wanted, perhaps you should look into other things than mapping, or host others people content as well. I for one have made several maps and custom game modes in the past that had no dedicated server for them. Whenever someone actually does host them or even comments on the workshop submissions, that says enough for me; people appreciate what I created, 90% of the people that play maps don't even use the workshop, let alone comment there. As long as you are trying your best to contain the maps in one server, you are being selfish. Not because you don't want to give away your maps, but because you should be making maps for people to enjoy. If that is not want you try to achieve by making maps, perhaps you should play offline with bots or close friends. If it's money you are trying to get out of it, you shouldn't be doing it for someone else's game imho.
If I'm wrong about what you are trying to get out of the whole mapping hobby, please enlighten me as I'm curious what your motivation is to make maps otherwise.[/QUOTE]
It's amazing how server owners can have exclusive plugins that rake in thousands of dollars in donations, and no one ever complains. But the moment a mapper makes something of his exclusive (something he spent MONTHS of his free time working on), people go nuts and accuse them of greed. Plugins and maps both require enormous amounts of work. But it seems that only one of them ever gets any respect for the author. Why is that?
I started my own server with exclusive maps, because [b]I became fed up with being told by nearly every server admin out there to "Keep your maps under 100 mb or WE WILL NOT HOST THEM." [/b]I recall many instances where server admins from the big name servers like SLAG and Intox would PM me to ask me to remove the music (for example) from the map to get it under 100MB.
For years I tried to stick to this limitation, by intentionally compromising the quality of the map. I couldn't use soundscapes (because WAV files are huge compared to non-loopable MP3s), which meant every map could only have 1 global background track, manually looped through entities instead of via soundscape. I had to keep the resolution of textures low, etc. Lots of ways I had to compromise my work. And that got me in trouble, naturally - people were getting the wrong impression about what I was capable of. I'd get hate mail constantly from people with complaints like "The grass texture in ____ is so low-res, wtf, you have NO TALENT." Of course they never understood that it was either this or not being able to play the map at all, because no one would have hosted it otherwise. If I was to take my work to the next level and truly show what I am capable of making, I needed my own server. Period. I refused to ever compromise my work again to meet someone else's demands.
Most of the maps I made exclusive for my server were well over 100MB. My Peach's Castle map was over 200MB. I was finally free from constraints and could make anything I wanted. That allowed the creation of my Forest Temple map, which had Kokiri Forest, Forest Temple, and the Lost Woods all in one map - quite possibly the 2nd biggest map I've ever made (in terms of playable areas) and the file size reflected this. I would have never even started working on this or the other maps if I hadn't had my own server. Why would I bother making something I know no one is going to want to host?
It's just stunning, absolutely stunning, how I'm the one accused of greed, while servers out there are raking in thousands of dollars hosting maps they didn't even make. But oh no, I hosted stuff [b]I sacrificed hundreds of hours from my social life and free time[/b] to make, so I could make [b]my server[/b] appealing, and I'm the one that gets shit on. Yeah. Says a lot about how little the Gmod and TF2 playerbases respect mappers. We're slaves to server owners. That's all we are to you. We're not allowed any respect, and if we even dare ask for it, we're the bad guys.
This is the last time I'll look or reply to this thread. No point in further discourse, as you are convinced already that I'm the bad guy and nothing I say will change your mind. So carry on. I've no stake in this anymore, and I literally couldn't care less what you think of me. I wouldn't have bothered replying or even read this thread if it hadn't been for the request of my good friend on Steam who directed me to it.
P.S. @Mastmario: Not going out of my way to upload those maps to the Workshop doesn't mean I disapprove of people using them or hosting them (I frankly don't care). It just means I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on an endeavor that has already cost me a large financial loss and loss of time. To upload them to the Workshop I'd have to do extensive editing to the maps to make them work without the plugins I had on my server. I would have to recompile every single one of them. Too much work, too much time, for literally no gain whatsoever.
You seem to have forgotten that my website was DDoS'd for weeks and eventually brought down altogether by Xenogamers. I lost my server, my maps, my audience, and my platform. Why on EARTH would I still waste any more time, given this situation, making things more convenient for the people who did all of this to me? Do not forget: [b]You are not entitled to my free time.[/b] The ONLY instance where you are entitled to my time and effort, is when you're paying me. Which you are not.
Thank you so much for saying all you've said. Anyone who thinks that someone should only map for others is dead wrong. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make something for yourself, and there's also nothing wrong with wanting to protect something you made from re-use if you're not ok with it. People get too entitled when it comes to things like that, be it art, maps, or whatever.
Really sorry that your whole experience boiled down to something so stupid, to where it made you just become exhausted and lose all interest in it. I hope that whatever you do in the future is free of all that, and you can really gain a passion in what you're doing.
You probably won't see this if you never look at this thread again, but seriously, good luck, and I hope your future endeavors are much more positive.
To be honest, I didn't mean for things to wind up like this. I think I do remember something of the Xenogamers incident, but hardly anything of worth. Though back then I think I was surprised that someone did make a Freezy peak map after I released my rip directly to the BK Source project. In fact, you can still find the release post on their forum despite the download link not working.
At this point though, if it was my rip that was used to make said map, all I would have wanted is some credit as the rip actually came out in pieces and had to be re-assembled.
In the mean time though, I suppose it doesn't mater if I get the map or not any more. once I get my N64 ripping tools working again, I may tackle making this map again myself, with or without a BK Source project.
[QUOTE=8BitSandwich;46246832]It's amazing how server owners can have exclusive plugins that rake in thousands of dollars in donations, and no one ever complains.[/QUOTE]Oh, so all the people cheering on the death of CoderHire in the hopes that people would actually release things publicly for fun again were just my imagination, then.
Fair enough, though 8bit will never look at this thread again I'd like to tell that I understand a bit more the situation, maybe I've been a bit hard in my critics and I apologize about that because it's a mapper that I like ( again criticize doesn't mean demonizing/hating ). To be honest I've been kinda shocked he reacted that way because I didn't meant to say that as an insult. As for Glaber, I can only wish you good luck for your map, sadly I can't help you because I have no clue nor have the time for map porting or making.
Well worth the read. Thanks for replying in such an elaborate manner, it clears up a lot of details that I didn't get from the initial discussion. As I've said, I don't play or even own Gmod, so I was unaware of the tactics being played out there by the community. The workshop however does let you file DMCA complaints (I know that's a fact for CS:GO at least) which takes down the copies fairly easy, but I can understand that you no longer want to put time into that after all the harm that's been done. Your reasons for wanting to host it on your own server make a lot of sense; I initially understood there was no real reason to keep them detained, other than to populate your single server and make money, which would still be a bad practice in my opinion. Now that the details have been cleared up, it all make sense to me.
Just to clarify, I never said you are not allowed to make any money (although Valve does I think); I said it's a bad idea to want to do so, as it's never worth the effort you put into hobbies. As for server owners earning money; there's two sides to the story. They also put in a whole lot of effort to keep the stuff running, updating/writing plugins, managing communities etc. and on top of that, they have to spend money on hosting the server, whereas mappers usually only invest their time, and not the money bit.
Don't get me wrong here, the other side of that story is of course that they are making money on content that is being made by mappers who usually don't get anything in return. Since that's near impossible to change with these type of games/communities, I advise people to try to map for the joy of seeing people play and love your work and filling perhaps up their portfolio, instead of getting frustrated over making money.
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