ttt_nuclear_power - Nuclear Power and Atomic Research Facility Themed Map [WIP]

[Matt2468rv]

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;35645436]Textures in the reactor core, on the blast doors, in the control room, all the screens, and combine models used in the toxic room.

So not two places...[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, some of the screens. I really didn't identify them as 'combine' when I picked them out. They just look cool :v: And fit quite nicely I think. Blast doors I mentioned, and there are some in the control room, yes. The single combine model I used (the railing model) fits well in the toxic waste room imo. But each to his own opinion.

I like criticism, seeing as it helps me improve the map, but I'm hoping for more criticism that's constructive, not condescending.

I have a special place in my heart for you though Iron, since you've already referred to yourself as a "cynical sarcastic bastard." :v:

[IronPhoenix]

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35645566]Ah yes, some of the screens. I really didn't identify them as 'combine' when I picked them out. They just look cool :v: And fit quite nicely I think. Blast doors I mentioned, and there are some in the control room, yes. The single combine model I used (the railing model) fits well in the toxic waste room imo. But each to his own opinion.

I like criticism, seeing as it helps me improve the map, but I'm hoping for more criticism that's constructive, not condescending.

I have a special place in my heart for you though Iron, since you've already referred to yourself as a "cynical sarcastic bastard." :v:[/QUOTE]

You have some nice rooms, like the black mesa esk rooms. Just pick one theme and follow through.

[bohb]

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35645566]I like criticism, seeing as it helps me improve the map, but I'm hoping for more criticism that's constructive, not condescending.:[/QUOTE]

Sure doesn't seem like it. You keep making excuses and lashing out when people criticize your map, instead of asking how it could be made better.

[Matt2468rv]

[QUOTE=bohb;35651444]Sure doesn't seem like it. You keep making excuses and lashing out when people criticize your map, instead of asking how it could be made better.[/QUOTE]

I haven't been lashing out, and my responses have been thought through. Most of the criticism I've gotten so far has not been constructive. I've gotten feedback with things like "this map sucks" (from you, for example), or "this part doesn't look good", without any useful advice on what I could do to change it or make things better. The only constructive feedback I've gotten so far is to stick to one theme, and change the combine textures, which I already said I would consider. They are good suggestions. I'm open to suggestions and criticism as long as it's constructive, not condescending.

[bohb]

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35651724]Most of the criticism I've gotten so far has not been constructive. I've gotten feedback with things like [B]"this map sucks" (from you, for example),[/B] or "this part doesn't look good", without any useful advice on what I could do to change it or make things better. The only constructive feedback I've gotten so far is to stick to one theme, and change the combine textures, which I already said I would consider. They are good suggestions. I'm open to suggestions and criticism as long as it's constructive, not condescending.[/QUOTE]

Please point out where I said the map sucks, because I didn't.

I've been mapping for over 13 years now and I can tell when a map has fallen flat on its face, even if it hasn't been completed yet. This is one such map, it has too many issues with it and it would require far more effort to try and save it than it would be to start from scratch.

The first problem is the architecture. The entire map is really blocky and edgy, with lots of badly made brush detail that's also really blocky. Some examples would be the escalators, lobby monitor kiosks, door frames and the bathroom sink counter and mirrors. All of the bad brush detail mixed in with the assorted models breaks uniformity and looks bad.

The second problem is that you already built the entire map layout with a texture set that you aren't allowed to use. You're going to find it very difficult to find alternate textures that will fit properly with the existing architecture and not look out of place or bad.

This leads to the final problem, you made the map before you planned out what was going to be in each area. when building an indoor map, it's best to build one area at a time instead of making the whole layout and then going back and detailing (which is why I said it looks like random props, because it basically is, there's no uniformity) the entire map.

[Matt2468rv]

[QUOTE=bohb;35667381]Please point out where I said the map sucks, because I didn't.

I've been mapping for over 13 years now and I can tell when a map has fallen flat on its face, even if it hasn't been completed yet. This is one such map, it has too many issues with it and it would require far more effort to try and save it than it would be to start from scratch.

The first problem is the architecture. The entire map is really blocky and edgy, with lots of badly made brush detail that's also really blocky. Some examples would be the escalators, lobby monitor kiosks, door frames and the bathroom sink counter and mirrors. All of the bad brush detail mixed in with the assorted models breaks uniformity and looks bad.

The second problem is that you already built the entire map layout with a texture set that you aren't allowed to use. You're going to find it very difficult to find alternate textures that will fit properly with the existing architecture and not look out of place or bad.

This leads to the final problem, you made the map before you planned out what was going to be in each area. when building an indoor map, it's best to build one area at a time instead of making the whole layout and then going back and detailing (which is why I said it looks like random props, because it basically is, there's no uniformity) the entire map.[/QUOTE]

Your original post was completely negative with no constructive advice, which I categorized as "This map sucks." You're brimming with negativity even now, telling me that my map fell flat on its face, and basically telling me to just give up. You're acting like my first map release should be completely and utterly flawless.

But thank you for your opinions and encouragement, buddy. <3 If you've been mapping for 13 years and are basically all-knowing in mapping, may I see some of your source maps?

[bohb]

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35676237]Your original post was completely negative with no constructive advice, which I categorized as "This map sucks." You're brimming with negativity even now, telling me that my map fell flat on its face, and basically telling me to just give up. You're acting like my first map release should be completely and utterly flawless.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I don't give sugar coated reviews on maps like you seem to be expecting. I grew up in a mapping community that had far more strict guidelines on creating maps than Garry's Mod has ever had, and I stand by those guidelines because I'm honestly tired of seeing awful maps cranked out on a daily basis.

Your map is bad, so I gave it a bad review. You have flaws in your mapping method, which I also commented on, but you're so caught up in being offended, lashing back and trying to stuff words in my mouth that I never said; That you aren't getting the points.

And yes, your first map release should indeed be flawless. That is unless it's also your first map, In which case you shouldn't be releasing it at all. After all, should have had lots of time to dick around in hammer and make lots of test maps to have a fair group of people tell what you did right and wrong.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35676237]But thank you for your opinions and encouragement, buddy. <3 If you've been mapping for 13 years and are basically all-knowing in mapping, may I see some of your source maps?[/QUOTE]

I stopped mapping seriously a long time ago, I spend most of my time now giving advice to people on various mapping forums I visit on what to and not to do, how to make their maps better or rebuild entire maps for people that want me to rebuild for them. The last map I worked on somewhat seriously was a source port of Casbah in 2009:

[thumb]http://archer.gamebanana.com/img/ss/maps/185626.jpg[/thumb]

dm-deck16][ for GM:DM

[thumb]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560939541758021369/EB766DBDCA4C2BAD69A6B50A3E023BD38383D89C/[/thumb]

Rebuilding a map for someone:

Original:
[thumb]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/488878325838383287/09D91370D0DBF63116836761A9725C3A524FCD7D/[/thumb]

Rebuild:
[thumb]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/488878325838384316/B0D5C56B6813DDB2D305B590D58122385F4DEFEF/[/thumb]

But this about your map, not mine.

[Matt2468rv]

[QUOTE=bohb;35680253]Sorry, but I don't give sugar coated reviews on maps like you seem to be expecting. I grew up in a mapping community that had far more strict guidelines on creating maps than Garry's Mod has ever had, and I stand by those guidelines because I'm honestly tired of seeing awful maps cranked out on a daily basis.

Your map is bad, so I gave it a bad review. You have flaws in your mapping method, which I also commented on, but you're so caught up in being offended, lashing back and trying to stuff words in my mouth that I never said; That you aren't getting the points.

And yes, your first map release should indeed be flawless. That is unless it's also your first map, In which case you shouldn't be releasing it at all. After all, should have had lots of time to dick around in hammer and make lots of test maps to have a fair group of people tell what you did right and wrong.[/QUOTE]

Enlighten me, what exactly should I be expecting here if I shouldn't be expecting to get constructive advice?... Regardless of whatever other mapping community you used to be a part of, this is Facepunch, and I don't see how your background has anything to do with this. Here, it's courteous in general to offer constructive criticism and suggest ways that a map could be improved, rather than only saying "This is bad" and that I might as well give up. Not very helpful, is it? :v:

Saying that anyone's first map release should be flawless is absurd. I can't say I've seen anyone put out a first map that has been completely and utterly flawless, and I'm not sure if anyone else here can either. Even successful and popular maps aren't perfect, there are always ways in which they could be improved. I've only built an unfinished test map before starting this one, and I've been working on this ever since, learning most of my mapping knowledge through this project, and this is still a WIP. I have a lot to fix and improve. I'm not sure what mapping method you see here as flawed. Many highly skilled mappers in this community start by abstractly mapping an idea they've had, and just see where it goes from there. You might consider that a flaw, but really it's just a different mapping style and many great maps have been released that way.

And honestly if you think I'm lashing out, I encourage you to read the attitude of your previous posts in this thread.

[QUOTE=bohb;35680253]I stopped mapping seriously a long time ago, I spend most of my time now giving advice to people on various mapping forums I visit on what to and not to do, how to make their maps better or rebuild entire maps for people that want me to rebuild for them. The last map I worked on somewhat seriously was a source port of Casbah in 2009:

-picture-

dm-deck16][ for GM:DM

-picture-

Rebuilding a map for someone:

-pictures-

But this about your map, not mine.[/QUOTE]

Nice pictures, but it's pretty interesting how you claim to have all this mapping experience ([I]13 years, wow[/I]) and what you're showing me is maps you've worked on that have either been ported, re-created, or fixed up. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't see any maps here that you've originally created yourself?

[editline]23rd April 2012[/editline]

Anyways, I've made progress with texture re-creation. :)

[IMG]http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5025/tttnuclearpower0218.jpg[/IMG]

I redid the flooring and the concrete walls here. There are actually only two BM:S textures in my map that I have left to re-create, and that would be the lower metallic part of the wall in this picture and the blue stripe that goes around the room. Simple :)

And now that I think if it, i should probably put some ripple particles where the waterfall lands too.

.

[bohb]

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]Here, it's courteous in general to offer constructive criticism and suggest ways that a map could be improved, rather than only saying "This is bad" and that I might as well give up. Not very helpful, is it? :v:[/QUOTE]

Telling you to stop development on the map is the best advice I can give you. You just said this is your second map, and you clearly haven't learned enough yet to make a production map. And telling you to give up on one map doesn't mean give up completely, there are several things you can learn from a failed map in order to make your next map better. I've seen hundreds of mappers make WIP threads here for maps that eventually failed, and the few that stuck with it eventually released something much better later on.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]Saying that anyone's first map release should be flawless is absurd. I can't say I've seen anyone put out a first map that has been completely and utterly flawless, and I'm not sure if anyone else here can either.[/QUOTE]

In the many years I've been on this forum, I have seen people release first maps that were a diamond in the rough, though the occurrence of such maps is very infrequent.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]I'm not sure what mapping method you see here as flawed. Many highly skilled mappers in this community start by abstractly mapping an idea they've had, and just see where it goes from there. You might consider that a flaw, but really it's just a different mapping style and many great maps have been released that way.[/QUOTE]

The flaw is you created all of the level geometry before creating the contents of the rooms. Most "skilled" mappers will start out from a single area with whatever idea they had and go from there, so they don't end up with huge chunks of the map that don't make sense or are completely useless due to not fitting with any other part of the map, which is the problem with yours.

Building the entirety of the map then going back and detailing it frequently leads to problems that are massively time consuming to fix, or can't be fixed at all.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]And honestly if you think I'm lashing out, I encourage you to read the attitude of your previous posts in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Kind of hard not to see it, you keep posting straw men.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]Nice pictures, but it's pretty interesting how you claim to have all this mapping experience ([I]13 years, wow[/I]) and what you're showing me is maps you've worked on that have either been ported, re-created, or fixed up. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't see any maps here that you've originally created yourself?[/QUOTE]

This coming from someone on their second map is pretty funny. Have you ever tried to port a map from one engine to another, let alone two completely different engines? Have you ever re-created an entire existing level from scratch, while using no geometry from the former level? It requires skill, and it requires even more skill to pull it off and make it look good. I find it more rewarding to help other mappers make their maps better, port good or interesting maps, or make models/textures for projects than to make a map from scratch. Just because I don't crank out original maps day after day doesn't detract from my experience in mapping.

And I already told you I haven't mapped seriously in a long time. I'd love to show you some of my own map designs, but unfortunately I had a run-in with IBM and their DeathStar 75GXP (tm) hard drive series and lost all of my work prior to 2006. None of it was Source mind you, it was mostly HL1 and Q3 stuff. I still have the remains of the drive if you'd like to see it.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]Anyways, I've made progress with texture re-creation. :)

I redid the flooring and the concrete walls here. There are actually only two BM:S textures in my map that I have left to re-create, and that would be the lower metallic part of the wall in this picture and the blue stripe that goes around the room. Simple :)[/QUOTE]

It really doesn't look like you remade those materials. In the case of the floor, it looks almost identical. In the case of the upper wall, it looks like you just traced over the old texture and made it less dirty.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;35681194]And now that I think if it, i should probably put some ripple particles where the waterfall lands too.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you might not want to do that. Particle effects that use refractive materials or lots of particles (which you seem to have a bunch of in your map) eat framerates, especially on lower end and ATI cards.

[IronPhoenix]

[QUOTE=bohb;35682945]
In the many years I've been on this forum, I have seen people release first maps that were a diamond in the rough, though the occurrence of such maps is very infrequent.

[/QUOTE]

Rememebr hazrds first map...that really was a break from the norm.

I have started hundreds of maps...i have only ever released three (not including contest maps). However, the first of those three caused it to be improved a ton by shadowsand, and then rereleased by me a few years later.

You don't have to finish every map you start, you just need to learn from them.

[[yournamehere]]

Everyone's very sassy in here. Perhaps Matt if you want a productive thread, avoid retorting to things you find not useful, since you waste more page space with arguing than they do not giving the quality of feedback you want.

You need more detail, maybe ceiling elements in your lobby? Some type of support system and lighting scheme that makes it less plain.

[Matt2468rv]

[QUOTE='[yournamehere];35684780']Everyone's very sassy in here. Perhaps Matt if you want a productive thread, avoid retorting to things you find not useful, since you waste more page space with arguing than they do not giving the quality of feedback you want.

You need more detail, maybe ceiling elements in your lobby? Some type of support system and lighting scheme that makes it less plain.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think you're right. There's really no use wasting my breath arguing with someone who thinks I should just give up. Contrary to his beliefs, I don't think this map has "failed" at all and I'm going to keep working on it until it's done. :)

Detail is definitely something that I need to add in many places. In the lobby, I'll probably add a system of pipes or electrical wires on the ceiling, some supports, and maybe even a catwalk? As far as the lighting goes, I haven't started on that in the lobby yet. I need to add proper lighting to most of the places in my map yet.

As far as the materials go bohb, if you think they look identical then that means I'm doing my job re-creating them from scratch. ;)

[paulisdead18]

To end bohb's stupid flaming... The map looks nice, and even though you couldn't use the textures, you were at least able to remake them so they still sort of look like they did, even if all you did was retrace it a bit, isn't that kinda the point? Keep it up, and here's to hoping for a nice release.

[Matt2468rv]

[QUOTE=paulisdead18;35687469]To end bohb's stupid flaming... The map looks nice, and even though you couldn't use the textures, you were at least able to remake them so they still sort of look like they did, even if all you did was retrace it a bit, isn't that kinda the point? Keep it up, and here's to hoping for a nice release.[/QUOTE]

Hey thanks a lot. Yeah, the point is to re-create the textures from scratch so that they look as close to the original ones as possible, maybe with a few tweaks here and there. I actually haven't opened the original textures in a different layer to trace over them (not that it would have mattered), but I just had a side by side comparison of the original as I was re-creating them. I'm almost done, but the lower metallic part of the wall is going to be a little tricky. Well, more time consuming at least, but it'll get done!

[K9blaze]

Pretty damn awesome man! cant wait to see the map in full sexual action!