[QUOTE=RichyZ;23500307]because there are still people with shitty ass computers who refuse to upgrade or just can't afford to.[/QUOTE]
You know what I have to say to that? Fuck them.
[editline]09:46PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=LODY;23500508]Uhh why does everything HAVE to be dynamic, isn't it good as it is? I can't see what you are complaining about, this game looks great.[/QUOTE]
Because even though the gameplay is important, it helps when the game looks nice. You wouldn't play Crysis 2 if it looked like fucking Doom would you?
[QUOTE=LODY;23500508]Uhh why does everything HAVE to be dynamic, isn't it good as it is? I can't see what you are complaining about, this game looks great.[/QUOTE]
Because it allows more dynamic things (to enhance gameplay) to render without looking like total shit.
Only advantage I can see is cancelling out bsp rendering and just playing straight from editor
wait that sounds like a great thing nvm
Just think how much doesn't happen in source games because it's held back by it's static/precompiled nature.
Dynamic lighting means less compiling time.
Most of the compiling time in a map is the pre-baked .bsp lighting.
I'm sorry, but I must say, Valve have outdone themselves, they've released an incredibly well made game, which is so polished and beautifully crafted, down to all the details in the levels, characters and effects. They released this to us, the modding community, absolutely free of charge and I commend them for it, Hats off to you, Valve.
I feel like I'm the only person who didn't really expect a change.
[QUOTE=Zally13;23501555]I feel like I'm the only person who didn't really expect a change.[/QUOTE]
I preached it up to the day it was released that nothing was going to be big in terms of visuals.
The thing I have heard from JLea is how big it was for Valve to release the source code for Alien Swarm, he said it contains a ton of extremely useful code.
Also, having a fully dynamic light engine is not always good. Real-time global illumination is not very good at the moment because it's slow, and because it's simply hard to simulate indirect light. For example, an entrance to a cave. There is always some amount of light that lingers inside the entrance before it fades completely, this is rather hard to do in real-time and it's preferable to just pre-compute ambient light (anything in shadows).
The only engines I have seen so far to simulate GI and radiosity in real-time pretty well is of coarse CryEngine 3 and the 4A engine (Metro 2033).
[QUOTE=Hostel;23501909]I preached it up to the day it was released that nothing was going to be big in terms of visuals.
The thing I have heard from JLea is how big it was for Valve to release the source code for Alien Swarm, he said [B]it contains a ton of extremely useful things.[/B][/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=Firegod522;23501925]This.[/QUOTE]
I should have said code rather than "things".
Here is the 4A engine tech demo, the GI simulation is in the first part. If only you could combine a lighting system such as this in Source with the easy brush-based editor.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrSGvZczNtg[/media]
I was referring to the code so its still clear what you meant. :buddy:
[QUOTE=Legend286;23500564]You know what I have to say to that? Fuck them.
[editline]09:46PM[/editline]
Because even though the gameplay is important, it helps when the game looks nice. You wouldn't play Crysis 2 if it looked like fucking Doom would you?[/QUOTE]
fuck yeah I would.
I just wouldn't pay as much for it.
hell, I still play doom from time to time these days, and it's just as enjoyable as *yet another generic UE3 game*
Since when did people buy Crysis for the gameplay? :raise:
[QUOTE=Zally13;23502542]Since when did people buy Crysis for the gameplay? :raise:[/QUOTE]
Dunno, some people enjoy that kind of crap. Crysis 2 looks like it has better gameplay & story though. Regardless, Valve should just ditch all the people with 8 year old hardware, because they are the ones keeping Source from improving visually. And from the survey, 50% of Steam users have a dual core and dx10 gpu, which means they can easily play newer games fine.
[QUOTE=Legend286;23502680]Dunno, some people enjoy that kind of crap. Crysis 2 looks like it has better gameplay & story though. Regardless, Valve should just ditch all the people with 8 year old hardware, because they are the ones keeping Source from improving visually. And from the survey, 50% of Steam users have a dual core and dx10 gpu, which means they can easily play newer games fine.[/QUOTE]
:saddowns:
They shouldn't. One of the reasons why valve is such a great PC gaming company is because people with older hardware can still play.
BAWWWW! It doesn't have fully dynamic lighting! Because all engines have fully dynamic lighting! It's so important to me that all the lights can move around! Wahwah, moanmoan, crycry.
Who honestly gives a shit? I've spent pretty much all of today playing this with 3 friends and not only did we all comment on how it looks damned sexy, it played well and was the most fun I've had on a game for ages.
It doesn't NEED dynamic lighting, it'd just look terrible, lightmaps always look better anyway. The shadows of players and other entities like that still cast shadows based upon where the light source is, env_projectedtexture or not. They didn't do that previously.
Also no, it isn't about the people with old hardware. It's about what they need to produce with their engine and so far they've had no need to implement any form of proper dynamic lighting.
I've seen source produce beautiful results, at the end of the day it's the artists that make it look good, not the fact it has a fancy day/night cycle or spinning red lights or what-have-you.
Alright then, so by that logic, while Source stays with it's baked shite for another 10 years I'll be enjoying Crysis 2.
[QUOTE=Legend286;23502917]Alright then, so by that logic, while Source stays with it's baked shite for another 10 years I'll be enjoying Crysis 2.[/QUOTE]
You won't be enjoying Crysis 2 for 10 years you shallow, shallow man.
[QUOTE=selby3962;23502955]You won't be enjoying Crysis 2 for 10 years you shallow, shallow man.[/QUOTE]
Whatever. The point is that Source shouldn't stay baked forever. There's plenty of games that have fully dynamic lighting (and on every fucking light, with no pre baked shit) and they look amazing with it. Pretending that Source looks better is just being naive.
[QUOTE=Legend286;23502991]Whatever. The point is that Source shouldn't stay baked forever. There's plenty of games that have fully dynamic lighting (and on every fucking light, with no pre baked shit) and they look amazing with it. Pretending that Source looks better is just being naive.[/QUOTE]
Graphics are decided by the artist, not by fancy effects.
In my opinion Crysis 2 looks pretty average. Generic wrecked cityscapes aren't really my thing. Behind the fancy effects that's all it is.
I'm not arguing that Source could do with improvements but I honestly don't care how soon they come. TF2 looks good to me because the artists and level designers have really gone to town with it's style. Pretty much the same for Alien Swarm and L4D. I really couldn't care less if it has parallax (which a modder could code in anyway if they really wanted to, same as any shader) or if it has dynamic lighting etc.
[QUOTE=selby3962;23503193] [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. But saying that they shouldn't do it because they'd be budging their low end users is stupid. Do you know why there's so many low end users? Because they're the people who play CS 1.6 exclusively and are contempt with that. Why do they need to upgrade if they're only interested in CS? They don't. Taking this into account means that there are far less users with insufficient hardware to run newer games.
[QUOTE=Legend286;23503253]Yeah, I know what you're talking about. But saying that they shouldn't do it because they'd be budging their low end users is stupid. Do you know why there's so many low end users? Because they're the people who play CS 1.6 exclusively and are contempt with that. Why do they need to upgrade if they're only interested in CS? They don't. Taking this into account means that there are far less users with insufficient hardware to run newer games.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=selby3962;23502825]Also no, it isn't about the people with old hardware. It's about what they need to produce with their engine and so far they've had no need to implement any form of proper dynamic lighting.
I've seen source produce beautiful results, at the end of the day it's the artists that make it look good, not the fact it has a fancy day/night cycle or spinning red lights or what-have-you.[/QUOTE]
Baking is outdated. Source is outdated... Anyone who believes that source should stay like it is is nuts.
Source should be removed alltogether, Valve should FINALLY move the hell on... Cocky company.
[QUOTE=BloodYScar;23503345]Baking is outdated. Source is outdated... Anyone who believes that source should stay like it is is nuts.
Source should be removed alltogether, Valve should FINALLY move the hell on... Cocky company.[/QUOTE]
you misunderstand the nature of source. it was intended to be infinity upgradeable, so that they would always use the same engine, they would just add onto it as necessary.
[QUOTE=BloodYScar;23503345]Baking is outdated. Source is outdated... Anyone who believes that source should stay like it is is nuts.
Source should be removed alltogether, Valve should FINALLY move the hell on... Cocky company.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.
[QUOTE=limulus54;23503414]you misunderstand the nature of source. it was intended to be infinity upgradeable, so that they would always use the same engine, they would just add onto it as necessary.[/QUOTE]
it was INTENDED... For ~3 years already its easily noticeable that it isnt. Or Valve is not trying.
DoF was overdue for years, we still dont have real dynamic lighting, we still have a shitty stupid model import process, materials system is outdated,
we dont have parallax mapping, we dont have bump/normalmaps that look at least okay.
[QUOTE=BloodYScar;23503345]Baking is outdated. Source is outdated... Anyone who believes that source should stay like it is is nuts.
Source should be removed alltogether, Valve should FINALLY move the hell on... Cocky company.[/QUOTE]
That cocky company just released a game they could make hundreds of thousands of dollars off, for free.
[QUOTE=BloodYScar;23503523]it was INTENDED... For ~3 years already its easily noticeable that it isnt. Or Valve is not trying.
DoF was overdue for years, we still dont have real dynamic lighting, we still have a shitty stupid model import process, materials system is outdated,
we dont have parallax mapping, we dont have bump/normalmaps that look at least okay.[/QUOTE]
It's not that they aren't "trying", they don't need to so they haven't.
DoF hasn't made a toss of different really.
We don't need dynamic lighting save for a few specific cases in which an env_projectedtexture usually works just as well.
The shitty stupid model import process is piss-easy and takes about 30 seconds to get from 3DS Max into source with a bit of practice.
Materials system is easily sortable and you can do a lot more with one texture map and a text file that would take at least 3 in another engine and making alterations is as easy as creating a new .vmt and changing values.
Parallax mapping is old now anyway and doesn't really look very good, and if you really want it you could code it into your own mod very easily.
Bump/normalmaps look just as good in Source as they do in other engines if the resolution of it is the same and if you're really inspecting and comparing bumpmap quality to use as an argument you really don't have much to stand on.
Thats why you make your own shaders :hurr:
And we've had dynamic lighting since Half Life. Though Dynamic shadows has been around since 2007.
[QUOTE=BloodYScar;23503523]blah blah blah[/QUOTE]
Ok, compare HL2 and L4D2 and tell me they look the same, graphics wise, I dare you.
[QUOTE=Legend286;23503598]Ok, compare HL2 and L4D2 and tell me they look the same, graphics wise, I dare you.[/QUOTE]
Except for a bucket of bloom, blur and postprocess filters it looks the same. And new textures of course.
Oh and the fake euphoria...
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
