Big survival map - Developers

I just don't understand how even with the invite system, we still get this random flood of idiots and jerks who are [B]completely selfish, can't do anything; or troll everybody with their games[/B]

[QUOTE=code_gs;41843912]Off topic from the legal drama here, you should set up a donation paypal hiyougami.[/QUOTE] Wuh?

[QUOTE=hiyougami;41848829]Wuh?[/QUOTE] Bet you could raise $200 easy :P

[QUOTE=Jitterz;41849021]Bet you could raise $200 easy :P[/QUOTE] How would I present such a donation thing? I mean, it's a public map that's available for everyone. I can't see why anyone would do it - and would it make the drama worse?

I don't think you need to relate donations to the map itself, I've seen mappers have a donation button for their general work and contributions to the community.

[QUOTE=Lamar;41849619]I don't think you need to relate donations to the map itself, I've seen mappers have a donation button for their general work and contributions to the community.[/QUOTE] It's true, and just think. If [b]one seventh[/b] of the people who viewed this thread donated just [b]one dollar[/b], you'd have more than what you asked for.

[QUOTE=Gamershaze;41849664]It's true, and just think. If [B]one seventh[/B] of the people who viewed this thread donated just [B]one dollar[/B], you'd have more than what you asked for.[/QUOTE] Where would you recommend I put this donation button? [QUOTE=wazanator;41842088]that statement really worries me. If this is true I think we need to blacklist the Casual Bananas, it's one thing to run out of money and inform the people you were going to pay that you will no longer be able to so they do not need to spend time on it, it's a completely different thing to just cut communication and not inform them till 3 weeks after deadline.[/QUOTE]Just read this. From the 20th or so, we had a pretty good idea that the community was going through hard times, but we were told by Excl that we were to continue working with them on the map and gamemode. We didn't know we weren't going to get paid until just a few days ago. Due to the lack of communication for three weeks, during which we continued bugfixing and playtesting, we made the decision that if we weren't contacted by the 14th, we would go ahead and release the map. Of course, we were contacted, and what we told wasn't good news.

Put it in the OP of your gm_bigisland thread.

[QUOTE=code_gs;41852434]Put it in the OP of your gm_bigisland thread.[/QUOTE] I'd rather not at all, actually. I mean, if people really want to, they can set up a kickstarter or something - in which case I would use my half of whatever came out of it to keep me going and promise a map to the community as a thank-you. I'm really wanting to make Siege Of Shanghai from BF4 in Source, including all the destructible stuff (got Rayfire working!), I just fear I won't have the time.

[QUOTE=paulisdead18;41842278]So why did you hire them in the first place? I know you've said you ran into money troubles, but wouldn't you put aside $200 to pay the people you hired to make a map, instead of spending money that would put your community in debt if you made any side investments?[/QUOTE] We had a buffer that could keep us up for 3 months WITHOUT any donations, which means, we ran through this buffer because of events that happened. We could have done 2 things, close the community at that point or change servers with DDoS Protection, which is what we did. Either way, we weren't able to afford the map. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=gk99;41842567]So uh, why do you still have "Casual Bananas" as your avatar? [editline]14th August 2013[/editline] Well, there's not much point in developing it and not doing anything with it.[/QUOTE] Because I simply didn't even think about changing it. Will do now then, if it really is that much of a deal. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=cardboardtheory;41842644]There's two somewhat separate entities: a company of some sorts and a gaming community. While Ruben is no longer affiliated with the community that wanted the map, he still works with the company which is pursuing unrelated projects.[/QUOTE] Correct, and not "some sort of company", we're registered at the Dutch Chamber of Commerce. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Wigbig;41843496]Even if you do get donations that surpass your server's monthly upkeep requirement, the surplus should still go to paying the server costs, since that is what the money is originally for.[/QUOTE] Who are you to judge how we should manage our finances? We're a company, we make profit. Easy peasy. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SimplePlanz69;41843954]He probably thought he could get the map before the creators asked about payment and just "run away"[/QUOTE] That is pure bullshit, see it however you like, this was never my intention. I quit the thing I loved doing for over 1 year because of some drama that went going on for 4 months, involving my personal life and almost made me break up with my girlfriend. If that does make you think I thought I could run off without paying, well, I was the one who offered a part of the payment up front but they rejected. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=paulisdead18;41843996]I find it suspicious that amazingly he quits the community the DAY that the map is due. I mean, he knew about the map and all. It's not like he wasn't aware that the map was being made.[/QUOTE] Pure coincidence. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;41845705]How else would he pay for his holiday to portugal and greece?[/QUOTE] Mom, dad, and some vacation with friends which I paid about 6 months before actually going there. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] Look, you guys can come up with a shitton of things that "might have happened", I've told my side of the story and I don't know what to do else. I quit the business because of tons of shit that happened, and I'm not going to continue to argue about this which is exactly what I wanted to get away from. This request was MADE by me, on behalf of a community I'm no longer apart of. If you think that you still need to blame anyone, go to Casual Bananas' website and complain about it there, I'm done. I had no intentions to let it go up until here, as in not closing the deal, but there's just too many events that made it happen the way it went. You can find thousands of things that "could have been it" or "could have been done different", those things happened, but don't put me as an individual to blame it all on.

What people here earlier before have been trying to hammer at, is that you simply were not in the position to responsibly offer these guys money. Yes, we know you had financial difficulties but that does not change the fact that you guys were not in the position to offer them money. Its unprofessional to hire people to do something for you and then two months later decide not to pay them because you have found out you weren't in the position to do so. That is not how the real world works,

[QUOTE=Lamar;41853015]What people here earlier before have been trying to hammer at, is that you simply were not in the position to responsibly offer these guys money. Yes, we know you had financial difficulties but that does not change the fact that you guys were not in the position to offer them money. Its unprofessional to hire people to do something for you and then two months later decide not to pay them because you have found out you weren't in the position to do so.[/QUOTE] We made 10k in 3 months, is that really too much of a risk to offer 2 people $200 for a map? Who could have expected it to go downhill this much? I couldn't see that coming. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] And why the hell am I even responding to this. I quit the community to get away from all the stress that mainly Excl caused, now I'm just making myself get stressed over this again. I've done my story, I've told my side, believe what you want. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] Slight edit: 10k is without PayPal fees, substracted, without expenses substracted, without tax substracted, before you people are going to blame me for things.

[QUOTE=Cyberuben;41853112]We made 10k in 3 months, is that really too much of a risk to offer 2 people $200 for a map? Who could have expected it to go downhill this much? I couldn't see that coming.[/QUOTE] That's even worse then, you've selfishly decided to throw these guys under the bus instead of accepting the consequences.

[QUOTE=Lamar;41853162]That's even worse then, you've selfishly decided to throw these guys under the bus instead of accepting the consequences.[/QUOTE] Last reply, so I should have just given these guys the money, while I had no use for the map, I was no longer part of the community, to see my company and therefor myself go bankrupt? If that's "too selfish" for you, then let it be. Starting a life with debts at the age of 17 just so two other people get their $200, sorry mate, not going there. Edit: And no, there was no guarantee going bankrupt if I had given them the $200, but it's not even worth the risk.

[QUOTE=Cyberuben;41853318]Last reply, so I should have just given these guys the money, while I had no use for the map, I was no longer part of the community, to see my company and therefor myself go bankrupt? If that's "too selfish" for you, then let it be. Starting a life with debts at the age of 17 just so two other people get their $200, sorry mate, not going there.[/QUOTE] What an immature brat you are, I suppose you don't feel any obligation to pay people who have essentially worked pennies an hour for you because things haven't gone your way.

If you signed a legal contract to create the map, couldn't you press charges over their unfulfillment of their side of the contract?

[QUOTE=samuel2213;41853758]If you signed a legal contract to create the map, couldn't you press charges over their unfulfillment of their side of the contract?[/QUOTE] There wasn't a legal contract, I offered them money up front, they rejected. We weren't able to close the deal, atleast, wasn't my deal anymore, other guy refused, now I get the blame. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lamar;41853368]What an immature brat you are, I suppose you don't feel any obligation to pay people who have essentially worked pennies an hour for you because things haven't gone your way.[/QUOTE] If you think it's immature to say that I don't want to risk a life in debts because I'm personally liable for debts that my company has, then, let it be. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] I also requested a lock on this thread, I've told my story, believe whatever you want, I can't get myself to stop from posting here, hence that I've said I would quit it twice already. Again, this isn't a deal I made, this is a deal the community I WAS WITH made, and I'm no longer part of that.

Sorry if i misunderstood something, but how did you manage to spend 10k on your community in 3 months?

[QUOTE=Cyberuben;41853811]There wasn't a legal contract, I offered them money up front, they rejected. We weren't able to close the deal, atleast, wasn't my deal anymore, other guy refused, now I get the blame. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] If you think it's immature to say that I don't want to risk a life in debts because I'm personally liable for debts that my company has, then, let it be. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] I also requested a lock on this thread, I've told my story, believe whatever you want, I can't get myself to stop from posting here, hence that I've said I would quit it twice already. Again, this isn't a deal I made, this is a deal the community I WAS WITH made, and I'm no longer part of that.[/QUOTE] I don't want to sound rude, but $200 is hardly a crippling debt, and certainly won't lead to a like of paying it off.

[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;41853847]Sorry if i misunderstood something, but how did you manage to spend 10k on your community in 3 months?[/QUOTE] First there's $0.35 for each PayPal transaction substracted, then 3.4% substracted by PayPal, then 21% substracted by tax, and from what's left over, we built up a buffer which allowed us to stay up for 3 months without income, and we had $960 of expenses every month, $250 a month for our office, and others were server costs. We bought a new dedicated server just after we paid our old ones for another month, and this was done because we were hit every day, all day, causing us to be down in total. Meaning: We spent our buffer on buying a new server with expensive DDoS protection, while we just bought another month of servers we didn't even use anymore, causing our buffer to be this low that we couldn't even afford the 3 months that we still had left on our office's contract. So yes, spending $200 on the map could put us in at least $750 debt, in all one month, without having a job, that's a lot of money. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] So if it's really that selfish saving my own ass over a community I'm no longer part of, then I'm just going to live by that. You can tell me to grow up, or tell me I'm immature, but I achieved more in life already than anyone I know at this age, I know damn well what I'm doing. Money is nothing to play with, I'm not going to risk debts, because once you get in debts they'll just stack up. Hiyu and Stinger worked for us, I have no idea if they lost anything, apart from time, but if you think I'm going to get myself in $750 debts just for a map, then no, not worth it. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("I'll let you back on if those mappers gets their money, otherwise cya" - postal))[/highlight]