[QUOTE=Borris_Squad;49449365]I also have a love hate relationship with this area.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I may be missing something, but what exactly is there to love in that picture? All I'm seeing is an awkwardly short, overly wide dead end with blocky buildings, and nonsensically closed off dumpster with a really blurry garbage texture.
I mean the whole thing looks like it should be some sort of driveway, and have roll up doors, alcoves and maybe a delivery dock. Or at least some way for the garbage truck to empty the overflowing dumpster.
I also don't really understand why the dumpster is full at all, if the player can't look over the lip and if they CAN get on top, there doesn't seem to be anywhere for them to go.
One thing that I've noticed overall from the screenshots, is that your level seems to be gigantically oversized. For suburbs, those houses have HUGE yards. What are the unit measurements for your roads because I can't tell if it's the perspective of the pictures, or if they're just really, really wide.
Roads should be 256 units across TOPS. Sidewalks can vary from 64-96, personally I prefer 96 since I feel like it brings the scene together a bit more.
Aside from just the road width, I would strongly consider reducing their length as well. Unless you're planning to release your map with a vehicle disclaimer for RP hosts telling them what they need, you're not being very efficient with what you can accomplish with the space roads take up.
Personally, I feel like drive-able vehicles add absolutely nothing at all to an RP map aside from justifying unnecessary scale. The centerpiece of your map should be the buildings and the routing you offer your players, not wide swaths of asphalt in the form of parking lots players will ignore or roads they will treat as a racetrack.
Would prefer more maps like the REALLY old C17 ones that were centered around pedestrian traffic since you would often have some sort of funny encounter travelling from point A to point B which does not exist when people are whipping by in an effort to get to a raid faster.
Look, I have to massively agree and disagree with you here, I personally liked the idea of what he was doing, also vehicles do add to roleplay depending on the player count and size of the map.
Now to completely side with you;
Yes the roads are massive and I only just realised this, they look ridiculous, I think he had an idea of making a map to compete with Evocity, given the fact it looks like a ruined version of V33x, further more the yards also look stupid, I would suggest getting the real world measurements plugin for Hammer as your clearly not gauging size here.
Further more that stretched texture on top of the bin is really unneeded, as said no player will go there unless nocliping or prop climbing, even so I'd not want to see that mess, I think you should open up a new maps and make a small apartment, or even your house, understand how big things should be, then move onto your street, then consider a small town before going onto a so called city.
I disagree that roads are too wide. I've always thought roads looked/felt way to small in maps to fit cars in gmod. In my map a main street is 960 counting a median/turn lane and 384 for a 2 lane. It just depends on what you are going for.
[QUOTE=Framperton;49454732]Sorry, I may be missing something, but what exactly is there to love in that picture? All I'm seeing is an awkwardly short, overly wide dead end with blocky buildings, and nonsensically closed off dumpster with a really blurry garbage texture.
I mean the whole thing looks like it should be some sort of driveway, and have roll up doors, alcoves and maybe a delivery dock. Or at least some way for the garbage truck to empty the overflowing dumpster.
I also don't really understand why the dumpster is full at all, if the player can't look over the lip and if they CAN get on top, there doesn't seem to be anywhere for them to go.
One thing that I've noticed overall from the screenshots, is that your level seems to be gigantically oversized. For suburbs, those houses have HUGE yards. What are the unit measurements for your roads because I can't tell if it's the perspective of the pictures, or if they're just really, really wide.
Roads should be 256 units across TOPS. Sidewalks can vary from 64-96, personally I prefer 96 since I feel like it brings the scene together a bit more.
Aside from just the road width, I would strongly consider reducing their length as well. Unless you're planning to release your map with a vehicle disclaimer for RP hosts telling them what they need, you're not being very efficient with what you can accomplish with the space roads take up.
Personally, I feel like drive-able vehicles add absolutely nothing at all to an RP map aside from justifying unnecessary scale. The centerpiece of your map should be the buildings and the routing you offer your players, not wide swaths of asphalt in the form of parking lots players will ignore or roads they will treat as a racetrack.
Would prefer more maps like the REALLY old C17 ones that were centered around pedestrian traffic since you would often have some sort of funny encounter travelling from point A to point B which does not exist when people are whipping by in an effort to get to a raid faster.[/QUOTE]
That point of the dumpster IS for people to be able to get on top of it which allows them to bypass the door and jump over the fence. If you're unfamiliar with the model it does have a ladder of it which I added a func_ladder to. I highly disagree with you're idea of 256 roads, the point of the map being so big is that you can't walked everywhere like downtown.
[editline]4th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Borris_Squad;49456080]Look, I have to massively agree and disagree with you here, I personally liked the idea of what he was doing, also vehicles do add to roleplay depending on the player count and size of the map.
Now to completely side with you;
Yes the roads are massive and I only just realised this, they look ridiculous, I think he had an idea of making a map to compete with Evocity, given the fact it looks like a ruined version of V33x, further more the yards also look stupid, I would suggest getting the real world measurements plugin for Hammer as your clearly not gauging size here.
Further more that stretched texture on top of the bin is really unneeded, as said no player will go there unless nocliping or prop climbing, even so I'd not want to see that mess, I think you should open up a new maps and make a small apartment, or even your house, understand how big things should be, then move onto your street, then consider a small town before going onto a so called city.[/QUOTE]
The suburbs area has very little work done to it but in my defense I live in a town with a population of 101. We don't have street lines, our lots of huge and we can't pee on our neighbors house while standing in our own lawn. And i covered the trash bin above.
[editline]4th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Snapster;49456185]I disagree that roads are too wide. I've always thought roads looked/felt way to small in maps to fit cars in gmod. In my map a main street is 960 counting a median/turn lane and 384 for a 2 lane. It just depends on what you are going for.[/QUOTE]
Since most of you didn't like how big the streets were please consider this map is made to have a bus driving in it which needs bigger streets.
[QUOTE=Snapster;49456185]I disagree that roads are too wide. I've always thought roads looked/felt way to small in maps to fit cars in gmod. In my map a main street is 960 counting a median/turn lane and 384 for a 2 lane. It just depends on what you are going for.[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, do cars in Gmod not use the more modern L4d/CSGO vehicle models for scale? Because in both of those games, vehicles seem to fit perfectly into a 256 or MAYBE 320-384 unit wide road if it's a highway.
960 seems to be really excessive, unless you're incorporating some side of roadside parking in addition to it.
Also @Boris_Squad; My point, albeit made a little aggressively is that there really isn't much there to 'get'. Right now it's simply a fenced off dead end with a dumpster behind it. There does not seem to be anything else to it that cannot be replicated very quickly and easily in hammer hence my confusion.
Also, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about vehicles. In my experience I have never seen them used for RP. As I've said, I've seen them being used to run people over, and to speed people from one raid to another. Not to mention they are usually a quadrillion simoleons as well so that only the people who spend day and night or donate to the server can get them. They are nothing but a disruption to the server in my mind as well as an incentive for a server to throw up paywalls around certain pieces of content.
[editline]5th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=BigAlBroSki;49458265]That point of the dumpster IS for people to be able to get on top of it which allows them to bypass the door and jump over the fence. If you're unfamiliar with the model it does have a ladder of it which I added a func_ladder to. I highly disagree with you're idea of 256 roads, the point of the map being so big is that you can't walked everywhere like downtown.
[/QUOTE]
Alright, but why would people be back there in the first place. There doesn't seem to be anything there? Also, are you planning on making that chainlink door usable?
Also, to clarify something, I was saying the roads should be 256 units wide. With that in mind, I don't really understand your point that the point of the map will be so big that you can't just walk everywhere. Maybe I just have a fundamental point of contention of reaaally big RP maps, but I don't see the act of walking across a very large road to get to the other side to be fun.
In my mind, it's just an inconvenience, and boring for no real good reason. I mean I can understand a larger scale if you have automated or possibly player run features like a trolly or train to take the players from place to place to circumvent some sort of hazard. But I [i]REALLY[/i] just do not get the idea of making a map big for the sake of making it big and taking a long time to get around.
Traveling by foot or vehicle long distances just doesn't seem as interesting to me as being able to quickly interact or mess with people.
[QUOTE=Framperton;49458486]Out of curiosity, do cars in Gmod not use the more modern L4d/CSGO vehicle models for scale? Because in both of those games, vehicles seem to fit perfectly into a 256 or MAYBE 320-384 unit wide road if it's a highway.
960 seems to be really excessive, unless you're incorporating some side of roadside parking in addition to it.
Also @Boris_Squad; My point, albeit made a little aggressively is that there really isn't much there to 'get'. Right now it's simply a fenced off dead end with a dumpster behind it. There does not seem to be anything else to it that cannot be replicated very quickly and easily in hammer hence my confusion.
Also, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about vehicles. In my experience I have never seen them used for RP. As I've said, I've seen them being used to run people over, and to speed people from one raid to another. Not to mention they are usually a quadrillion simoleons as well so that only the people who spend day and night or donate to the server can get them. They are nothing but a disruption to the server in my mind as well as an incentive for a server to throw up paywalls around certain pieces of content.
[editline]5th January 2016[/editline]
Alright, but why would people be back there in the first place. There doesn't seem to be anything there? Also, are you planning on making that chainlink door usable?
Also, to clarify something, I was saying the roads should be 256 units wide. With that in mind, I don't really understand your point that the point of the map will be so big that you can't just walk everywhere. Maybe I just have a fundamental point of contention of reaaally big RP maps, but I don't see the act of walking across a very large road to get to the other side to be fun.
In my mind, it's just an inconvenience, and boring for no real good reason. I mean I can understand a larger scale if you have automated or possibly player run features like a trolly or train to take the players from place to place to circumvent some sort of hazard. But I [i]REALLY[/i] just do not get the idea of making a map big for the sake of making it big and taking a long time to get around.
Traveling by foot or vehicle long distances just doesn't seem as interesting to me as being able to quickly interact or mess with people.[/QUOTE]
The building on the right is going to end up a nightclub and I plan on giving it a front door and then a door in the alley way. My idea behind this is i don't like it when buildings only have one entrance because it makes it too easy to guard with such a small number of people.
Edit: And yes the door is usable by players
[editline]5th January 2016[/editline]
After see most of the comments here I realize I should have waited until I had more of the map done, I appreciate everyone in taking time to look over what I have and plan to either update this or make a new post once I have more done.
[QUOTE=Framperton;49458486]Out of curiosity, do cars in Gmod not use the more modern L4d/CSGO vehicle models for scale? Because in both of those games, vehicles seem to fit perfectly into a 256 or MAYBE 320-384 unit wide road if it's a highway.
960 seems to be really excessive, unless you're incorporating some side of roadside parking in addition to it.
Also, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about vehicles. In my experience I have never seen them used for RP. As I've said, I've seen them being used to run people over, and to speed people from one raid to another. Not to mention they are usually a quadrillion simoleons as well so that only the people who spend day and night or donate to the server can get them. They are nothing but a disruption to the server in my mind as well as an incentive for a server to throw up paywalls around certain pieces of content.
[/QUOTE]
You can't compare non-moving cars in l4d/csgo with player driven cars in gmod, you also gotta compensate for player lag/shitty drivers being too close to one another and crash into each other.
Like I said it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish in your map with road sizes. If you are trying to heavily go for realistic modern rp map with cars as one of the mains things the roads should be bigger then you think.
Here is a [url=http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/357274177502222655/35152BE4B28B58E233A3B4E145D6B70073031A40/]example[/url] of one intersection in my map with 960 width and 128 sidewalks. [url=https://www.google.com/maps/@34.066901,-118.42886,3a,52.1y,241.84h,78.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF6QaGjWf6zZWwAV1geA_bw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]Google street reference[/url] There should be enough room to atleast walk in between 2 cars at a signal.
Everyone has different tastes in design but there aren't any rp maps with good sized realistic roads for police chases or driving in general.
Are you joking? You can taxi a 747 in Evocity, so I cant see why the roads need to be any bigger, and since I was in your situation as I live in a small town (by small I mean a population of 40,000) I went and used google maps for reference, and search arround online for actual blueprints for buildings.
[editline]5th January 2016[/editline]
Also when it comes to making cars my self, I have the Hl2 Player rig for 3ds Max, so when rigging cars I can do references, I've never published work, how ever yes, people use real world scale then convert it to that of HL2 so roads should not be extremely big but as @snapster they can be a little bigger to compensate for lag and shit ;)
[QUOTE=Snapster;49459164]You can't compare non-moving cars in l4d/csgo with player driven cars in gmod, you also gotta compensate for player lag/shitty drivers being too close to one another and crash into each other.
Like I said it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish in your map with road sizes. If you are trying to heavily go for realistic modern rp map with cars as one of the mains things the roads should be bigger then you think.
Here is a [url=http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/357274177502222655/35152BE4B28B58E233A3B4E145D6B70073031A40/]example[/url] of one intersection in my map with 960 width and 128 sidewalks. [url=https://www.google.com/maps/@34.066901,-118.42886,3a,52.1y,241.84h,78.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF6QaGjWf6zZWwAV1geA_bw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]Google street reference[/url] There should be enough room to atleast walk in between 2 cars at a signal.
Everyone has different tastes in design but there aren't any rp maps with good sized realistic roads for police chases or driving in general.[/QUOTE]
You make a good point about lag compensation and shitty drivers, but I still really can't see something exceeding 384 or 512 tops. One big discrepancy between your map and the google street images that I'm seeing (unless there are better examples in your map) is that the google street view takes place in a very large city that requires gigantic arteries running through it. The city planners had to adjust their streets to an increased volume of traffic. Also, the larger buildings, hotels, high rises ect make the scene seem a little more proportional.
When I first saw your example, before I clicked on the google reference I immediately thought of smaller midwestern towns with highways running through them given that most of your buildings were single story and sort of stripmallish, which is perfectly fine for that style.
My point however, is that due to the lack of availability of vehicles in general and the considerably low number of players compared to the population of the real world counterparts, many maps overcompensate for the amount of space needed for traffic. This means that the majority of roads are going to go unoccupied for the majority of the time. How often do you anticipate intersections filling up even as much as you have in your example picture?
Does a police chase with maybe 3 cars and extremely light traffic really need 5 lanes? At what point does the road become a road and not a raceway? And on that note, wouldn't making roads smaller both make for more challenging chases and do a better job of simulating traffic with the smaller number of people present on any given stable server?
This is again based off my own more or less experiences with vehicles on an RP server, but wouldn't a wider road combined with the limited traffic be even worse for people who didn't have a car? Considering it would take them longer to cross the road (and sidewalk) wouldn't it make them a really easy target for roadkill since not only would the person running them over have plenty of opportunity, but also have a really easy escape route?
As you said, everyone has different tastes in design - and I don't mean to say that facetiously, but I strongly feel like the experience of people without vehicles should still be just as protected as those with them.
To me this whole map looks like it's trying to get everything done at once instead of slowly working on one area at a time. Combined with the bland architecture and lack of detail (which should be added as you go), it makes the place feel really lifeless.
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