• "Tremors" Models
    1,393 replies, posted
  • Ulgh... Well, hitboxes work now, I suppose. They weren't before, but they are now. I still don't get bullet wounds on the Shrieker for some reason despite this, but while the Graboid still looks like he tried to eat himself, I can at least give HIM bullet wounds, which is somewhat an improvement. It seems what is hapenning is that the model cancels out skeleton and uses the center of the map as a central bone, where every part spawns to. In Construct it's the same spots that certain snpc's would gravitate towards when they were buggy. A thought, however, has occurred to me, in that I know the collision model's skeleton is allowed to be different from the reference skeleton as long as it shares certain bones (I believe). But Instead, I kept the entire skeleton, although several of the tongue bones do NOT have a collision piece connected to them. I'm wondering if that is the cause of the problem, and I intend to experiment to see if I am right. If anyone wants to jump in here, please do so.
  • Avatar of Rodwy
  • I used to have this problem, the eating itself bit, it ended up being an issue of the vertexes not being rigged to the bones in the manner I intended. In the model viewer view collision model and skeleton, do they both appear around and in the model respectively? The bullet wound bit has to do with the collision model in relation to the model, Shoot different areas of the shrieker to see if it will get bullet holes elsewhere. The bones without collisions can cause a problem as the compiler will automatically create a collision model based an which vertexes each bone uses, and since certain bones may share vertexes to make bending look better the collision model pieces will overlap. Too many overlapping collisions and the model will get screwed up in game.
  • [QUOTE=Rodwy;13613585]I used to have this problem, the eating itself bit, it ended up being an issue of the vertexes not being rigged to the bones in the manner I intended. In the model viewer view collision model and skeleton, do they both appear around and in the model respectively? The bullet wound bit has to do with the collision model in relation to the model, Shoot different areas of the shrieker to see if it will get bullet holes elsewhere. The bones without collisions can cause a problem as the compiler will automatically create a collision model based an which vertexes each bone uses, and since certain bones may share vertexes to make bending look better the collision model pieces will overlap. Too many overlapping collisions and the model will get screwed up in game.[/QUOTE] Yes, the bones and collision model are all lined up together, if that's what you're asking. I've shot the Shrieker up everywhere I can think to shoot and I haven't seen a single bullet wound, though the shots certainly are hitting him. Right now I have a different skeleton for the collision model. I took out the un-collided bones and instead linked the remaining bones to the neck, so each bone has it's own collision piece. I don't *think* there are any overlapping between the bits of collision model... This is the current collision model, in case it betrays any secrets I've yet to detect. [IMG]http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo350/JJMDude/collision_screen.png[/IMG]
  • Avatar of CrazyChcken
  • Sucks that those problems occured J-Dude I wish I could help but I know nothing about modeling. As for more bad news thats unrelated I found my map exceled the max source ents by 70% I didn't reliaze til it crashed on start with the classic "no free edics" popup... Today I learned the importance of the magic compile log... [b]Edit:[/b] I also learned that the source engine can run over 60% what it says it can. Also J-Dude have you thought about scraping the colusion and hitboxes and redo them?
  • The hitboxes are fine, they're rebuilt each time they're compiled. There's no reason for me to entirely redo the collision model, it's just a bunch of parts, each one easily replaced, and there's no reason at all that the collision pieces themselves are corrupted; they're simple geometry; there's extremely little wiggle-room for it to fuck up that way.
  • "What next in the parade of constant interruptions?!" Frito refereed me to a guy called Mariokart who does a lot of ragdolling, and he told me you could have a maximum of 24 collision model pieces in a single ragdoll. A might bit larger than 128, although maybe 128 refers to bones overall in a single model... Anyway, I went back and snipped collision models, but kept the skeleton, since the physmodels of other models proved to have far more bones than collision models in them. Instead of seriously diluting the tongues pose-ability, I deleted all but the front four rows of tongue collision models, and went in later for the actual ragdoll pose and tucked the tongue away inside the stomach except for those bits with the collision models, which will flop out, though not be especially long. After setting up however, my computer decided my trials of suffering were not yet over, so while compiling it gives me the following error message: [code]ERROR: Rotation constraint on bone "spine2" which has no parent!!![/code] As intriguing as it is to see this message needed to be emphasized with three exclamation points, I was no doubt puzzled and annoyed at this development. My understanding here, is that it's telling me that this bone is being told it can only rotate a set distance, but a parent bone (spine1) to rotate off of is missing somehow. Not unrelated, spine 1 is one of the bones I removed a collision model from, and is as a result, not detected. I'm sure if it were allowed to continue, the compiler would complain about bones further down from the root, like the neck, or most of the tongue bones. And yet I know that other models are beyond this problem. They have a full skeleton while only a few select bones have collision models, the others left to themselves. How did THEY avoid the detection of the compiler? I'll look further into this, for there MUST be an answer here. This problem though, sounds like the result of something simple being forgotten, the final hurdle before the finish line. Anyone more knowledgeable can jump in at any time of course. But I feel so SURE that we're CLOSE now...
  • [IMG]http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo350/JJMDude/gm_construct0002.jpg[/IMG] "Hey Earl! I found the ass-end!" Well, perhaps not ideal, but it's progress X] Turns out our little answer was in the "$jointmerge" function, which according to this, I'm a bit removed from mastering... All the same, I much prefer slinky graboid over gastro-suicide graboid. At least it moves now, although I'm unsure s to why the tongues are back in their fully extended position when they ought to be ticked into the stomach... But, I'll leave that mystery till later. This, I think, is enough to be done with, particularly at 4 in the morning...
  • Avatar of Heilos
  • [QUOTE=J-Dude;13615605][IMG]http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo350/JJMDude/gm_construct0002.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE] This is the worm in slow motion. View the motion blur, view your doom. >.> I hope I don't have these same problems when I rig my mech, I hope you find a way to fix these, I love those movies.
  • Avatar of luch174
  • hmm strange.. for collision you made them all one object and applied them to 1 smooth group? really don't think it'll make a difference but.. could :)
  • [IMG]http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo350/JJMDude/jointmergesetup.png[/IMG] This is how the jointmerging is currently set up. I'm going to fiddle around with it, but this is basically what's going on. As the legend indicates, blue bones are bones with an assigned collision model, white bones are those WITHOUT an assigned collision model. The red lines indicate $jointmerge as it stands now. The bones with a bright red dot on their side of the connecting line are the bones that are controlling, as opposed to being controlled. For further clarification, this is how the jointmerging looks in the QC: [code]$jointmerge "tail1" "root" $jointmerge "spine2" "spine1" $jointmerge "spine2" "neck" $jointmerge "tail1" "tail2" $jointmerge "neck" "r_tong_4" $jointmerge "neck" "cent_tong_4" $jointmerge "neck" "l_tong_4"[/code]
  • Avatar of luch174
  • hmm have you tried using ik in max instead of $jointmerge, im pretty sure it works.. maybe. lol
  • IK? That's an interesting thought I suppose... Except I want the uncollided bones controlled by the other bones ONLY when it's a ragdoll. I don't really think I want IK to be interfering while it's an snpc. Aside from that, I haven't the slightest idea of what might happen if the uncollided tongue bones were left to do as they wished under an IK chain. Besides, I think IK chains can only have three bones involved in Source, so those tongues are out of the question anyway.
  • Avatar of luch174
  • im just trying to remember how i use ik, to be honest i don't have a clue how this thing will move, by sounds of it you know a bit about ik so i wont go into what i no lol. but reading over what you just said i think i understand pretty confusing stuff... i personally hate rigging.
  • Avatar of Rodwy
  • Quick question about the slinky worm, can each of those pieces be grabbed and dragged away from the rest of the ragdoll without effecting the rest of it?
  • [QUOTE=Rodwy;13622393]Quick question about the slinky worm, can each of those pieces be grabbed and dragged away from the rest of the ragdoll without effecting the rest of it?[/QUOTE] Yes, each part behaves as though unlinked from the rest of the skeleton, and I can move the pieces around as I wish. The old broken stalker ragdoll from HL2 behaved similarly.
  • Avatar of timmyboi
  • Will you be able to shoot the worms but it causing it not to kill the Tremor Creature. Like if you shot the worms, he grow more or something.
  • Avatar of FritoMaster
  • I don't think its possbile to make him grow larger after shooting him, If you did get that to work it would prolly be very glitchy and unstable.
  • [QUOTE=timmyboi;13622864]Will you be able to shoot the worms but it causing it not to kill the Tremor Creature. Like if you shot the worms, he grow more or something.[/QUOTE] Why on earth would a graboid grow when you shoot it? Have you seen the Tremors films?
  • Avatar of Blargtastic
  • I think he means will you be able to shoot off the tongues and have the graboid grow them back again.
  • Oh. Well no, I don't think he'll be able to have them blown off. I could shrink their bones until it LOOKED like they had, but that would be hard to maintain in other animations. I definitely intend to make it so that he retracts his tongues when you shoot them, as a means of escaping.
  • Avatar of MindMuncher
  • Yeah... I'm fine with them staying on or retreating... I want to see if you can even make him strike from underground.
  • Avatar of Rodwy
  • [QUOTE=J-Dude;13622517]Yes, each part behaves as though unlinked from the rest of the skeleton, and I can move the pieces around as I wish. The old broken stalker ragdoll from HL2 behaved similarly.[/QUOTE] Are you sure the bones are linked in the modeling program? They have to be or this will happen, or it could be a compiling problem. There is a way to indirectly link them but I'm not sure how it's done.
  • [QUOTE=Rodwy;13625859]Are you sure the bones are linked in the modeling program? They have to be or this will happen, or it could be a compiling problem. There is a way to indirectly link them but I'm not sure how it's done.[/QUOTE] The links themselves are fine. I even re-imported the .smd; all parented correctly.
  • [IMG]http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo350/JJMDude/gm_construct0003.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo350/JJMDude/gm_construct0004.jpg[/IMG] "Son of a bitch...SON OF A BIIIITCH!!!" Hehe, how 'bout THEM apples :) I decided to change which bones controlled the collision models, switching two of them. I changed the one controlled by "tail1" to "root", and changed "spine2" to "spine1". I even got rid of the $jointmerge bits of the QC, and this time it turned out right :) Now I just have to figure out why the pose I chose for the ragdoll smd isn't working (ie, why the tongues are still fully extended). Then again, I set the reference to be posed with the tongues extended, but that's only because I wanted them ready for animation in Max. I suppose I could simply pose the reference the way I want them in the ragdoll, and then when I animate it, I'll just use the extended version as a template and cut out the middle-man...Yeah, I think I'll do that and see what happens. Think I'll treat myself to some TF2 first :) Oh, and yeah, the graboid IS half inside the ground. Not due to error, but because I made it that way using the "nocollide:world" stool on some of his body segments.
  • Avatar of Nthatguy1337
  • Awesome, thought the worms' texture is too contrasting (the transition from beak to body is abrupt and un-natural looking). May I have a crack at editing the texture to see what kind'a damage I can do?
  • [QUOTE=Nthatguy1337;13628951]Awesome, thought the worms' texture is too contrasting (the transition from beak to body is abrupt and un-natural looking). May I have a crack at editing the texture to see what kind'a damage I can do?[/QUOTE] The body is leathery and the head is bony; I dunno. The texture is by Stratos. See what he thinks.