[QUOTE=BlindGed;27637282]Stop arguing and read this everyone:
YEESSS shield bash[/QUOTE]
So much of that is incredibly fucking awesome.
[QUOTE=Durandir;27636738]I'm just curious about something... BmB, you say that quicksaves ruin the game, and RPGs shouldn't have that. But I cannot for the life of me remember one RPG without quicksave. Might be that I am sleepy, but I know that games like Planescape Torment has it, Neverwinter Nights has it, Dragon Age has it... I'm done discussing this, I am just curious about which games you are thinking about that don't have it.
And a follow up question to that, are there any new RPG's like Oblivion, but more RPG like you think I should play?
To be on topic: BEARDS!
(also going to bed, won't answer in 8 hours)[/QUOTE]
It's not just RPG's, it's a simple observation. Games that section the gameplay into smaller bits of challenge where you can't progress from one bit to the other without putting in the effort to complete that bit fully, are generally forced to have a better - and more control over the - difficulty. Philosophically you clearly define progress and challenge.
Whereas games that have, or worse, needs quicksave are often far more hapzardly put together. And the challenge is diluted because there is no control over how the player can iterate through the gameplay.
For example, if you look at Bioshock and Prey; that have actually done away with quicksave entirely in favor of just putting you back into the game immediately - these don't act any differently from quicksave per se, they have just taken it to its logical extreme - are in fact completely devoid of challenge because there is [i]no point of failure[/i]. That has been completely diluted out. A response might be to make the game so pointlessly difficult that you absolutely need it in order to progress, say like in Stalker. But even then there isn't really any of that challenge that you can't dilute away by iterating through the quicksaving enough. For example, not quite quicksaving, but I beat the last boss of Rayman only by constantly pausing the game and entering a health cheat code when I needed it. Quick saving is not much different in that it allows you to save at favorable points and retain your health and advantage regardless of how well you can actually play the game.
But if you look at something like Freelancer, where you can only save when on a station, here the developers have control over how the player can iterate through the difficulty; and that allows them to create much more balanced missions with much more clearly defined points of failure. It's never a problem because a station is always close, and you only lose as much progress as the last mission start if you fail.
Or in Halo where the game only checkpoints you after all danger is gone. This means you have to be good enough to make it through the next bit of challenge before it will checkpoint you again, it's not a perfect system, but it's a good example of where the developers take control of the difficulty instead of letting it be diluted into nothingness.
All those older RPG's probably had, and still have, quicksave because it was a fancy engine thing. In other words they did it because they could with little thought as to whether or not they should.
they're adopting a plasmid type deal
[editline]24th January 2011[/editline]
oh my god bnb just shut up
[editline]24th January 2011[/editline]
Quicksaves and Fast Traveling is a way of removing repetition from a game, nobody likes repetition. Now please just shut your little hole and go back to talking about rewarding things
I hope you can adjust height. After my first two or three serious walkthroughs, i might end up making a master Hand-To-Hand gnome with a 10 feet beard.
It's great that Bethesda not only encourages mods, they also incorporate them into newer games
I was thinking of a Tall Wood elf.
Also BmB, Your argument for the last few pages made me pronounce you Facepunch's #1 fitting avatar.
[QUOTE=red_pharoah;27638207]I was thinking of a Tall Wood elf.
Also BmB, Your argument for the last few pages made me pronounce you Facepunch's #1 fitting avatar.[/QUOTE]
[editline]24th January 2011[/editline]
Anyway, I'm so happy about the combat upgrades
[quote]The shouts may have magical properties, like the ability to slow time or [b]call a dragon to your aid[/b][/quote]
I was thinking more about "Uncontrollably angry and shouting at everybody" but yeah
if we are thinking in relation to the game oblivion, if saving was removed it would be annoying as hell constantly having to replay things over and over again. we know the facts (dying once would lead to redoing much, whether you enjoy that or not is up to you), at that point its just opinion.
i do not like the concept of saving in RPGs. it takes away risk and a the of danger. however, taking out saving without putting in a suitable substitute is madness. For anyone who has played Mount and blade, you will know what im talking about. instead of dying, being captured, knocked unconscious (and waking up later with no gold or missing gear), or anything of that sort is a much better solution. it removes the repetition, and while it does add the funnyness of the player never being able to actually die, its nothing compared to other parts of the game that give the player an advantage over NPCs. '
important quests (in an oblivion gate you you die, what do?) would have to expanded on to allow failure to be an option. if your trying to save the city from whowhatsitnow and you die, another branch should open where you wake up in a hospital, and are informed that you have failed or something. having to restart from an earlier save might be necasary for final battles if you(the game studio) dont want to add a "end of the world, everything is dead and you have failed" ending, which would be most boring to continue playing in.
bmb for the love of god shut up please
[QUOTE=Mattk50;27638639] having to restart from an earlier save might be necasary for final battles if you(the game studio) dont want to add a "end of the world, everything is dead and you have failed" ending, which would be most boring to continue playing in.[/QUOTE]
Actually, that would be FUCKING AWESOME. Endless daedra and dragons, and the only semblances of civilization are the ruins that said daedra and dragons are currently shitting on, with nothing but my beard as company? HELL YEAH.
[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;27638815]Actually, that would be FUCKING AWESOME. Endless daedra and dragons, and the only semblances of civilization are the ruins that said daedra and dragons are currently shitting on, with nothing but my beard as company? HELL YEAH.[/QUOTE]
of course it would, but that adds tons more work for the game studio making it, even more so on games the scale as bethesda makes
[QUOTE=redBadger;27609138]I am right now. I just wanted to ask in case anyone here has toured a place like Bethesda.[/QUOTE]
I delivered pizza to them once a long time ago, but that was before Oblivion came out and I had no idea what Zenimax was. Like a year later I as looking at the back of the Oblivion box while my friend was playing and noticed the address. My old doctors office was the building next to them.
In game development, the visual improvements, non-player character AI tweaks, and new storytelling philosophies are all for naught if the base activity the player performs the most frequently is uninteresting or unrefined. In the case of an action role-playing game like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, those activities are swinging swords, shooting arrows, or casting spells at the myriad bloodthirsty enemies rushing toward you in foreboding dungeons of Tamriel. Aware of the combat shortcomings and exploits players used in Oblivion, the developers at Bethesda Studios went back to the drawing board to forge a new direction for Skyrim.
“We wanted to make it more tactile in your hands,” game director Todd Howard says. “I think if you look at our previous stuff I sometimes equate it to fighting with chopsticks – you sit there and swing them in front of yourself.”
Bethesda’s solution is a new two-handed combat system that allows players to equip any weapon or spell to either one of their character’s free hands. This flexible platform opens up countless play styles – dual wielding, two-handed weapons, the classic sword and shield combo, ranged weapons, or even equipping two different spells. Switching between loadouts on the fly is made easier thanks to a new quick-select menu that allows you to “bookmark” all of your favorite spells, shouts, and weapons for easy access.
Taking Up The Blade
Repetition can be a game developer's worst enemy. As players move through the world slashing at enemies thousands of times, the gravity of the action dissipates to the point where it becomes as thoughtless an exercise as flipping a light switch. With Skyrim's combat system, Bethesda wants to restore the visceral nature of hand-to-hand combat. The first step? Changing the pace of the close quarters battles.
In the early stages of development, Bethesda watched fighting videos to study how people react during melee battles. The team found that most encounters featured more jostling and staggering than was present in past Elder Scrolls titles. Using the Havok Behavior animation system, the team is more accurately mimicking the imbalance prevalent in melee combat by adding staggering affects and camera shake. Don't expect button-mashing marathons where the attacker with a bigger life pool wins the war of attrition. If you're not careful on defense you may get knocked around, losing your balance and leaving yourself exposed for a damaging blow that can turn the tide of the battle. Knowing when to block, when to strike, and when to stand your ground is key to prevailing in combat.
“There's a brutality to [the combat] both in the flavor of the world, and one of you is going to die,” Howard explains. “I think you get very used the idea that enemies are all there for you to mow through, but it doesn't seem like someone's life is going to end. We're trying to get that across.”
Nothing drives this brutality home more than the introduction of special kill animations. Depending on your weapon, the enemy, and the fight conditions, your hero may execute a devastating finishing move that extinguishes enemies with a stylistic flourish. “You end up doing it a lot in the game, and there has to be an energy and a joy to it,” Howard says.
As with Oblivion, players have several options for melee combat. Your warrior can equip swords, shields, maces, axes, or two-handed weapons. Specializing in a particular weapon is the best way to go, as it gives you the opportunity to improve your attacking skills with special perks. For instance, the sword perk increases your chances of landing a critical strike, the axe perk punishes enemies with residual bleeding damage after each blow, and the mace perk ignores armor on your enemies to land more powerful strikes.
A good offense must be accompanied by a good defense. To make defending a less passive activity, Bethesda has switched to a timing based blocking system that requires players to actively raise their shields to take the brunt of the attack. If you hold down the block button, your character will attempt to execute a bash move. If you catch a bandit off guard with the bash while he's attacking, it knocks him back and exposes him to a counter or power attack. Players can block and bash with two-handed weapons as well, but it isn't as effective as the shield. Warriors who prefer the sword-and-shield approach can increase their defensive capabilities with shield perks that give them elemental protection from spells.
Bethesda also smartly changed the pace at which characters backpedal, which removes the strike-and-flee tactic frequently employed in Oblivion. In Skyrim you can't bob and weave like a medieval Muhammad Ali as you could in Oblivion. Players can still dodge attacks from slower enemies like frost trolls, but don’t expect to backpedal out of harms way against charging enemies. If you want to flee, you must turn your back to the enemy and hit the sprint button, leaving you exposed to an attack as you high tail it to safety.
Conjuring Better Spell Casting
Keeping in line with the philosophy of making the combat more tactile, Bethesda took inspiration for its spell casting from an unlikely source in Irrational Games' BioShock. Fighting his way through the city of Rapture, Howard was impressed with how Ken Levine's team visualized the power of the plasmids in your hands. They're adopting a similar approach for Skyrim.
“Before when we had magic, it never felt to us like you were actually doing it,” Howard admits. “It was a separate button, it flew out of your fist, and you could have a shield in your hand or a two handed-weapon – you could do it with anything.”
In Oblivion spells were cast with a face button, which allowed you to equip traditional weapons for melee combat and deftly cast spells between swings. By forcing players to equip a spell with one of their hands, players must make more of a commitment to learning the arcane arts. The ability to equip two different spells on your left and right hand raises the question – can you combine more than one spell? “We're not talking about that,” Howard says with a smile. “We're not sure. We'd like to; it'd be awesome.”
Even if you can't combine spells, magicka students will have no shortage of options, with over 85 spells divided into five schools of magic – destruction, restoration, illusion, alteration, and conjuration. Longtime Elder Scrolls fans may notice that the school of mysticism is absent. That's an intentional move on Bethesda's part. “It always felt like the magical school of mysticism – isn't that redundant?” Howard says. The spells formerly housed under the domain of mysticism have been moved to other schools of magic.
One of the more alluring changes to the spellcasting in Skyrim is how you can employ spells in different ways. For instance, you could blast enemies with a flame ball from afar, hold the button down to wield the spell like a flame thrower, place a rune on the ground to create an environmental trap that spontaneously combusts when an enemy steps on it, or equip the spell with both hands to deliver high damage fireball attacks that drain your magicka reserves quickly. The shock and frost spells give players an equal amount of flexibility.
The Havok Behavior technology gives the spells more visual flair than we've seen in past Elder Scrolls games as well. If you cast a frost spell, you'll see the effects on the enemy's skin. If you're wielding the flame spell like a flame thrower, the environment will catch fire for a short while and burn anything that comes into contact with it.
More so than in Oblivion, Skyrim’s new magic system also gives players legitimate benefits to using one attacking spell over the other. Fire deals the highest amount of damage, lighting drains the enemy’s magicka, and frost drains stamina and slows down enemies physically. This gives players more incentive to use particular spells against specific enemies. Why shoot fireballs at a wizard when you can simultaneously drain his heath and magicka with a shock spell? “There’s a gaminess to it that we didn’t really have before,” Howard says.
If you come face to face with another wizard, you’ll want to keep an attacking spell in one hand and improve your defense by equipping a ward spell in the other. Suddenly, magic duels become much more interesting, as you must attack at the opportune time, use the ward as a shield when your opponent is casting spells your way, and manage your magicka level by consuming potions.
Dealing Damage From The Shadows
Magicians and warriors aren’t the only play styles enjoying the benefit of combat enhancements. If you prefer to do your killing from afar with a bow and arrow or assassinating enemies from the shadows, Bethesda has some improvements in store for you as well.
Ranged weapons could be effective in Oblivion once you improved your skill level, but you had to pierce enemies with several arrows to take them down. After playing an Oblivion mod that turned the bow and arrow into a formidable weapon capable of one-hit kills, Bethesda decided to adopt that approach. It now takes a lot longer to get off a shot, but the arrows are much more powerful than before.
As in Oblivion, you can zoom to aim, and the longer you keep the bow drawn the more powerful your shot will be. Unlike Oblivion, the arrows now violently impact enemies with a satisfying thud. To keep players from coasting through the world plucking enemies from afar, Bethesda has significantly altered the arrow economy to make them a valuable but limited option. You won't be rolling into combat stacked with 50 Daedric arrows anymore. Though you don't have much defense when using the bow and arrow, if an enemy gets too close for comfort you can still execute a bash move, which knocks your foe off balance and gives you time to create distance between you and your target.
Stealth basically works the same as it did in Oblivion, but Bethesda has slightly altered what happens once enemies detect your presence. Now when NPCs think they see or heard something, they go into an alert state. Characters with a higher sneak skill will have more time to duck back around the corner or find sanctuary in the shadows. This new system eliminates the sudden attacks that sometimes caught players off guard in Oblivion.
Once you successfully sneak up behind an unsuspecting victim, you can unleash a deadly blow with the dagger, an almost useless weapon in previous Elder Scrolls games that is receiving a major boost in Skyrim. “Now when you sneak up behind guys, the dagger does something like 10x damage,” Howard says. “I don’t know if we’re going to keep that, but you feel like you should be killing the guy if you’ve gotten that close and you have a dagger.”
Though the dagger is still considered a one-handed weapon skill, the perks for the weapon are housed under the stealth banner.
The Dragonborn Prophecy Fulfilled
As the Dragonborn, players can wield the dangerous dragon shouts during battle as well. The shouts may have magical properties, like the ability to slow time or call a dragon to your aid, but they are different than magic in that every character can employ them regardless of their spell casting skills. If you want to learn more about this supplemental power, read our in-depth discussion here.
Binding all of these improvement together into a cohesive system, Bethesda's reinvigorated Elder Scrolls combat looks to be taking a large step forward.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;27636675]I wonder, will any of the wild animals have beards?
A troll with a beard or a bear with a beard.
Mudcrab with a beard...[/QUOTE]
It should attach to your beard and turn it into a zom-beard.
They should have little beard creatures that is just nothing but a walking beard.
And some of them could have beards.
wow, that combat sounds sexy. i knew they were changing things, but i was skeptical because they were only talking about dual wielding (and dual wielding is not all there is to good combat)
How about a lighting spell in one hand, with an enchanted anti-magic shield in the other? you would look like a madman, walking around with just a shield, until you fry your enemies faces off with electricity.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;27639219]wow, that combat sounds sexy. i knew they were changing things, but i was skeptical because they were only talking about dual wielding (and dual wielding is not all there is to good combat)
How about a lighting spell in one hand, with an enchanted anti-magic shield in the other? you would look like a madman, walking around with just a shield, until you fry your enemies faces off with electricity.[/QUOTE]
or better yet an electricity spell in one hand, and a sheild spell in the other, so that you can fry someones face off while walking down the street like a pimp
[QUOTE=Dachande;27639522]or better yet an electricity spell in one hand, and a sheild spell in the other, so that you can fry someones face off while walking down the street like a pimp[/QUOTE]
fuck no, then you cant shield bash people in the face. without the shield, your just another skinny mage wuss, who has to run whenever someone brings a sword to you.
oh yeah what if the spell materializes a pink shield infront of you that you can whack people with
oh yeah i'm stacked with answers baby
[editline]25th January 2011[/editline]
In retrospect I'd rather have a big ass shield with a spike on the end of it
Left hand - Big Metal shield with a Big Metal Spike on it.
Right hand - Flamethrower fingers.
I hope that enemies don't fly forward anymore when I stab them in the back with my dagger.
Left hand - War hammer
Right hand - War axe
Face - War beard
no too anime right out of the box
it needs a fanbase for that
I hope the quests play out a lot more like Bloodmoon than Oblivion.
Solsthiem was, in my opinion, the single most fun area in any elder scrolls game. Going into ice caves, killing evil world dominating necromancer lords, building villages, being creeped out by Uncle Sweetshare, it was awesome.
I want more undead in Skyrim. Mort Zombies were the freakiest fuckers to me when exploring dungeons.
[QUOTE=nox;27640060]I want more undead in Skyrim. Mort Zombies were the freakiest fuckers to me when exploring dungeons.[/QUOTE]
We've got enough zombies everywhere else in media these days. I'd rather have some more imaginative foes than just zombies.
Like that giant troll monster thing.
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