• Minecraft Chat Thread v68 : Jeburary edition
    10,002 replies, posted
I would just like to add, C++ runs on all platforms, including mac and linux. So while there are a lot of other negatives to using C++, having to have differnet versions would not be one of them
[QUOTE=Tuskin;35903077]I"m trying to get one I have all the requirements to be eligible but its not showing up in the eligible tab. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] Ah got it, I unlinked my Steam account it forced an update.[/QUOTE] Uh what's Raptr? :v:
[QUOTE=AlfieSR;35904779]Because it'd be undoing what they're trying to achieve by merging SSP and SMP - they have to control and update 2 copies of Minecraft again, which is pointless.[/QUOTE] Instead of one team managing 2 copies it's two teams managing two copies. It's essentially the same as one team managing one copy except now we have a copy that actually runs decently and is written in a good script language.
[QUOTE=Foogooman;35905755]Instead of one team managing 2 copies it's two teams managing two copies. It's essentially the same as one team managing one copy except now we have a copy that actually runs decently and is written in a good script language.[/QUOTE] Do you know anything about programming? Managing one codebase is hard enough as it is; coordinating between 2 teams on 2 codebases is just asking for a trip to hell. Also, switching languages is an extremely large obstacle and investment, and I doubt the performance gain would be worth a tenth of a percent of the cost.
Aww. All the codes on Raptr were gone by the time I joined. :suicide:
Console gamer tried to argue with me today that MC is more popular (and will stay more popular) on the 360 :downs:
[QUOTE=Eltro102;35904743]yes but modders [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] modders, devs, etc unless notch pays off the mod makers and other assorted devs too[/QUOTE] What other developers for Minecraft are there other than the Mojang Team? And if by Devs you mean modders, then devs == modders and you stated the same fact twice. And why would he even need to pay off Modders for changing the Minecraft Engine to C++? Doesn't make any sense, I mean the Modders didn't invest any money in creating the mods, and even if they did, it's not like the modders gave Mojang the money to invest in their constructions.
There has been a murder in Parachantown! [img]http://i.imgur.com/ZEMXO.png[/img] [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] of course this is what happens when you create a creative world [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NuiPM.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/R0tbQ.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=calzoneman;35905905]Do you know anything about programming? Managing one codebase is hard enough as it is; coordinating between 2 teams on 2 codebases is just asking for a trip to hell. Also, switching languages is an extremely large obstacle and investment, and I doubt the performance gain would be worth a tenth of a percent of the cost.[/QUOTE] But it's not impossible, hundreds of game companies do it.
[QUOTE=Foogooman;35908113]But it's not impossible, hundreds of game companies do it.[/QUOTE] Pretty much everyone here disagrees with you, so I would leave before you make yourself look like more of an idiot.
It's just strange that when I post things like "Minecraft runs like a garbage truck in a blizzard" I'll get a bunch of agrees but when I give an idea on how to fix that problem those same people would rather do nothing to fix it.
[url]http://minetest.net[/url] enjoy your c++ and lua mods
[QUOTE=Foogooman;35908204]It's just strange that when I post things like "Minecraft runs like a garbage truck in a blizzard" I'll get a bunch of agrees but when I give an idea on how to fix that problem those same people would rather do nothing to fix it.[/QUOTE] Using C++ won't fix the problem. Fixing Notch's hacky-ass code will.
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;35908336]Using C++ won't fix the problem. Fixing Notch's hacky-ass code will.[/QUOTE] The sad truth is that they'll probably have to re-write the entire engine just to make it not run like ass.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;35908517]The sad truth is that they'll probably have to re-write the entire engine just to make it not run like ass.[/QUOTE] Actually, I bet it would run pretty well. It may be inefficient, but it would run on pretty much anything. The project that ported Android to C# made it more than 5x faster in some cases, so Java is just terrible at everything from what I can tell. C++ is much better, although it would be somewhat difficult to port over.
[QUOTE=Foogooman;35904684]Someone tell me why creating a C++ version would be dumb. It's only a question of money, which Notch has plenty of.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ shut up. Why would you even code java for mac and C++ for PC. 1. Its stupid to have different coding languages for your game. 2. Modders would have to learn C++, java is a good beginners language hence why its easy to mod minecraft. 3. You dont need to start from scratch and make code it in c++ there is a lot of optimization they can do to make it not lag. 4. Everyone in Mojang to my knowledge codes in java, why would they want to hire more people. 5. Your being extremely ignorant. It would be really nice for them to optimize the game, since it has the core of the game from notch, poorly optimized, and then more optimized when he formed the company and jeb worked on it. All they need to do is just streamline the code and optimize it. No need to start the game from scratch in another language. That would just piss off the entire modding community and updates would most likely halt.
Java is shit. And you don't necessarily have to make mods in C, Minetest uses C for the core (which is cross platform) and lua for the mods (which is also cross platform).
Over heard a couple guys at work talking about Minecraft and it's Xbox release. One mentioned cross platform play. I laughed. Not only do the versions have to be the same, but I imagine coding such a thing and have it stable would be quite the chore. Especially since one is in C++ and the other is in Jaffa.
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;35909124]Over heard a couple guys at work talking about Minecraft and it's Xbox release. One mentioned cross platform play. I laughed. Not only do the versions have to be the same, but I imagine coding such a thing and have it stable would be quite the chore. Especially since one is in C++ and the other is in Jaffa.[/QUOTE]One is in XNA which is C# and the other is in Java
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;35908336]Using C++ won't fix the problem. Fixing Notch's hacky-ass code will.[/QUOTE] From the beginning I have been saying they should hire new C++ coders. Notch wouldn't be coding it at all.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;35900339]Anyone know a quick and easy tool or mod with which I can see ore distributions in a world? I want to check if ExtraBiomesXL and CustomOreGen are conflicting or otherwise acting weird.[/QUOTE] You can use mc map and set ore to be the only block that renders.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;35908824]Jesus christ shut up. Why would you even code java for mac and C++ for PC. 1. Its stupid to have different coding languages for your game. 2. Modders would have to learn C++, java is a good beginners language hence why its easy to mod minecraft. 3. You dont need to start from scratch and make code it in c++ there is a lot of optimization they can do to make it not lag. 4. Everyone in Mojang to my knowledge codes in java, why would they want to hire more people. 5. Your being extremely ignorant. It would be really nice for them to optimize the game, since it has the core of the game from notch, poorly optimized, and then more optimized when he formed the company and jeb worked on it. All they need to do is just streamline the code and optimize it. No need to start the game from scratch in another language. That would just piss off the entire modding community and updates would most likely halt.[/QUOTE] 1. If it's stupid then why did Mojang do it for the 360? They coded it to work with the 360 platform, just the same way they should code it to work with the PC platform. 2. There are a lot of people that already know C++ too. How do you know there wouldn't be better, or even more modders if they could use C++? 3. Minecraft has NEVER been well optimized and it's probably never going to be. Search the patch notes for "optimize". You won't find anything. Half the idea is to hire new employees that know how to code. 4. So that they could make a version of Minecraft that doesn't appear to be coded by a freshman who just took his first java class? They can afford the employees.
The issues with Minecraft aren't due to the language it's written in, they're down to how certain things in the engine work. It tries to render entire chunks, even if they aren't visible. It calculates AI for mobs you can never see, etc. And chunk loading is pretty slow too. You could re-write Minecraft in C or such and it'd be just as slow unless you fixed those issues, and if you fixed them it'd speed up the Java version as well anyway. Edit: And people are mixing up languages and runtimes. Android uses Java, but it doesn't use the Java VM. Any speed increases from porting it to C# come from the different runtimes, not the language.
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;35909477]The issues with Minecraft aren't due to the language it's written in, they're down to how certain things in the engine work. It tries to render entire chunks, even if they aren't visible. It calculates AI for mobs you can never see, etc. And chunk loading is pretty slow too. You could re-write Minecraft in C or such and it'd be just as slow unless you fixed those issues, and if you fixed them it'd speed up the Java version as well anyway. Edit: And people are mixing up languages and runtimes. Android uses Java, but it doesn't use the Java VM. Any speed increases from porting it to C# come from the different runtimes, not the language.[/QUOTE] The bottom line is that the game needs a rewrite but Jeb and Notch are incapable of that judging from their track records. So they need new people. They're not about to hire new java coders that are gonna outshine them so go ahead and bring on new employees and rewrite it in a better language. A good java coder can fix those issues but there are some things that java simply can't do or can't do well.
[QUOTE=Foogooman;35909431]1. If it's stupid then why did Mojang do it for the 360? They coded it to work with the 360 platform, just the same way they should code it to work with the PC platform. 2. There are a lot of people that already know C++ too. How do you know there wouldn't be better, or even more modders if they could use C++? 3. Minecraft has NEVER been well optimized and it's probably never going to be. Search the patch notes for "optimize". You won't find anything. Half the idea is to hire new employees that know how to code. 4. So that they could make a version of Minecraft that doesn't appear to be coded by a freshman who just took his first java class? They can afford the employees.[/QUOTE] lol ok 1. 4J studios coded minecraft for the xbox, they were not hired by Mojang but by Microsoft. 2. Yes people know C++, but what about the majority of people that do not know it would have to learn it, although it would benefit them to learn it. They will probably just get mad and rage at notch even worse than they already do. 3. They optimized lighting, it is a lot faster now since its just texture based. I am sure lots of other stuff is more optimized now than it was 8 months ago. 4. It doesn't appear to be coded by a freshman, its a really good game. Part of the problem is just how things are done, they could save a lot of time by just optimizing there code. No reason to completely re-write the games code in a different language. Minecraft runs fine on my computer, it might not on yours and that sucks, but they shouldn't have to re-write a entire games code. If it was notch coding it in C++ hell it could be as badly optimized as it is currently. It runs fine on a console since they coded it to work perfectly on the exact specs of the xbox, you cant tailor a game for pc on one set of specs when over a million people with different combinations of hardware are playing your game. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Foogooman;35909532]The bottom line is that the game needs a rewrite but Jeb and Notch are incapable of that judging from their track records. So they need new people. They're not about to hire new java coders that are gonna outshine them so go ahead and bring on new employees and rewrite it in a better language. A good java coder can fix those issues but there are some things that java simply can't do or can't do well.[/QUOTE] Java can do games well, Runescape is a great example.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;35909574]lol ok 1. 4J studios coded minecraft for the xbox, they were not hired by Mojang but by Microsoft. 2. Yes people know C++, but what about the majority of people that do not know it would have to learn it, although it would benefit them to learn it. They will probably just get mad and rage at notch even worse than they already do. 3. They optimized lighting, it is a lot faster now since its just texture based. I am sure lots of other stuff is more optimized now than it was 8 months ago. 4. It doesn't appear to be coded by a freshman, its a really good game. Part of the problem is just how things are done, they could save a lot of time by just optimizing there code. No reason to completely re-write the games code in a different language. Minecraft runs fine on my computer, it might not on yours and that sucks, but they shouldn't have to re-write a entire games code. If it was notch coding it in C++ hell it could be as badly optimized as it is currently. It runs fine on a console since they coded it to work perfectly on the exact specs of the xbox, you cant tailor a game for pc on one set of specs when over a million people with different combinations of hardware are playing your game. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] Java can do games well, Runescape is a great example.[/QUOTE] 1. I know, but they did it as an agent of Mojang since they own the IP. 2. Maybe 3. Optimizing one feature in like 2 years hardly counts. 4. Again, based on their track record I am confident they will never optimize it. And yeah it really does look like a freshman wrote it. See: Examples This is the kind of quality Notch codes. It's literally on par with a highschooler. (These are as of 1.8, some may be fixed or they could all still be in effect but either way it doesn't change the fact that he managed to fuck it up so badly) [quote]* Chest state (open or closed) is sent twenty times per second per chest, even if the state hasn't changed. This equates to at least 10kB/s network traffic on a medium-sized server plus the processing the client does * Same deal with the user list. Each user list packet contains the ping time for one user, and these are sent out twenty times per second per user. * Experience orbs were broken in 1.8pre1 due to notch's horrible, backwards use of OpenGL. It was already known that dropped items cause serious framerate drops, and the inclusion of orbs made this worse. Multiplayer was unplayable. "So what?", you say, "this is a pre-release". This bug was supposedly fixed by jeb, but instead has resulted in experience orb duping * The new user list renders improperly with Max Players set above 60, and completely fails to render when Max Players is set above 127. * The new food system has bugs too - if food saturation is above zero, you can happily not eat without your food decreasing. Only if you take damage will your food start to decrease. * New player effects can easily be manipulated to give users a speedhack. The server-side stuff that used to detect this cheating has been completely removed. * The new server list incorrectly assumes a server is up if it has been refreshed within 5s[/quote] Again, Notch wouldn't be doing the rewrite. You can optimize for a broad range of hardware and certain standards.
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;35909477]The issues with Minecraft aren't due to the language it's written in, they're down to how certain things in the engine work. It tries to render entire chunks, even if they aren't visible. It calculates AI for mobs you can never see, etc. And chunk loading is pretty slow too. You could re-write Minecraft in C or such and it'd be just as slow unless you fixed those issues, and if you fixed them it'd speed up the Java version as well anyway. Edit: And people are mixing up languages and runtimes. Android uses Java, but it doesn't use the Java VM. Any speed increases from porting it to C# come from the different runtimes, not the language.[/QUOTE]Java wasn't meant for games.
[QUOTE=TehWhale;35909935]Java wasn't meant for games.[/QUOTE] Neither were pixels.
[QUOTE=endorphinsam;35910241]Neither were pixels.[/QUOTE] Technically that's as true as it is false.
[QUOTE=TehWhale;35909935]Java wasn't meant for games.[/QUOTE] Neither was any other language, really.
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