• Half-Life series, general discussion (v2)
    9,944 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gabe Newell;35259698]half-life 2 still looks better than a lot of today's games, especially the lighting, the level design, the water, and the facial animation.[/QUOTE] I can easily say HL2 looks better than a lot of games, but the lighting is terrible.
[QUOTE=FullStreak12;35289631]I can easily say HL2 looks better than a lot of games, but the lighting is terrible.[/QUOTE] Not a fan of CS, but the lighting system in CSGO is immensely better.
[QUOTE=FullStreak12;35289631]I can easily say HL2 looks better than a lot of games, but the lighting is terrible.[/QUOTE] Half-Life 2's lighting is fucking beautiful.
[QUOTE=TCB;35290485]Half-Life 2's lighting is fucking beautiful.[/QUOTE] Yea but the way Valve used it in some places sucks.
Half-Life 2 (Nov 2004) Vs Modern Warfare 2 (Nov 2009) and Black Ops (Nov 2010)... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRo7ZTZAKg[/media]
[QUOTE=Naimvb;35290767]Half-Life 2 (Nov 2004) Vs Modern Warfare 2 (Nov 2009) and Black Ops (Nov 2010)... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRo7ZTZAKg[/media][/QUOTE] Well, if all the bottles in there would be physics/interactive props, that would make for about 100 props in a really tiny space. I don't think the pc/console would like that many physics props moving around at the same time. Still, it looks pretty lazy.
They could still make it so the bottles on the shelves are static props until interacted with, after which they become physic props ?
[QUOTE=_Axel;35291019]They could still make it so the bottles on the shelves are static props until interacted with, after which they become physic props ?[/QUOTE] or they could at least just disappear after being shot, ala duke3D
They could at least have the courtesy to have them shatter!
Half-Life 2 had some of its own development cons as well. A lot of the windows in urban areas are simply textures and have concrete decals when shot. Some objects' hitboxes were lazily done, such as the bed frame in the video above (4:19). It's also ironic how he mentions the amazing physics at the same time his barrel effortlessly clips through the ragdoll at 3:25. And who can forget the magical dust sprouting from NPCs when you throw an object at them? Sure, Half-Life 2's quality is still great nonetheless, especially for its time, but to pretend that its development was perfect is silly.
Keep in mind HL2 was made way back when we didn't have much advancement. Modern Warfare and Black Ops on the other hand was made pretty recently.
[QUOTE=UntouchedShadow;35292325]Keep in mind HL2 was made way back when we didn't have much advancement. Modern Warfare and Black Ops on the other hand was made pretty recently.[/QUOTE] so is Portal 2, which have close to 0 props
[QUOTE=Gate;35292637]so is Portal 2, which have close to 0 props[/QUOTE] Yah, but that's different because Portal 2 is a puzzle game. Half Life was more focused on creating a combat environment that a player could interact with and AI that would acknowledge your existence and work towards killing you. Why couldn't COD do that?
[QUOTE=Gate;35292637]so is Portal 2, which have close to 0 props[/QUOTE] Games, more and more, are trading interactivity and physics, texture detail and all the nice stuff we are used to, for shiny phong shaders and big scenes with tons of props in them. Perfect example, CS:GO. CRY --> CRY2 Quake 4 --> RAGE
[QUOTE=glitchvid;35292890] Perfect example, CS:GO. [/QUOTE] what
[QUOTE=UntouchedShadow;35292853]Yah, but that's different because Portal 2 is a puzzle game. Half Life was more focused on creating a combat environment that a player could interact with and AI that would acknowledge your existence and work towards killing you. Why couldn't COD do that?[/QUOTE] this is true, but Portal (1) have a lot of props, you can "kill" the cameras, take computers and chairs, even the computer mouses and keyboards
[QUOTE=CaLeB-;35292145]And who can forget the magical dust sprouting from NPCs when you throw an object at them? [/QUOTE]This is a fantastic feature as it provides the user satisfying feedback that the item has made a collision. Just as if shooting a enemy in a game wouldn't be particularly satisfying if there was no blood spray (in most cases, at least), the unrealistically large dust spray is what makes a good physics object hit so rewarding. Combined with the oh-so-glorious "[i]thunk[/i]" sound effect upon impact, I would say Half-Life 2 is easily [i]the[/i] finest game to date when it comes to throwing random crap at people.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;35292890]Games, more and more, are trading interactivity and physics, texture detail and all the nice stuff we are used to, for shiny phong shaders and big scenes with tons of props in them. Perfect example, CS:GO. CRY --> CRY2 Quake 4 --> RAGE[/QUOTE] Glad there are no props in CS:GO, they got in the way to many times in CSS when playing seriously. For custom game modes i'd take a wild swing and say they'll appear. Besides the fruit can still be sliced in Italy.
[QUOTE=Naimvb;35290767]Half-Life 2 (Nov 2004) Vs Modern Warfare 2 (Nov 2009) and Black Ops (Nov 2010)... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRo7ZTZAKg[/media][/QUOTE] The video really hits home when it's talking about the NPCs not making eye contact with the player. Most games nowadays hardly ever bother with anything like that.
[QUOTE=PHrag;35291215]or they could at least just disappear after being shot, ala duke3D[/QUOTE] And ala Left 4 dead.
[QUOTE=endorphinsam;35270371] but I thought that was cannon[/QUOTE] Yeah cannons are sometimes known to turn cats inside-out.
[QUOTE=Gabe Newell;35293098]what[/QUOTE] They are making a ton of the textures without $detail, even more low res (and often stretched on the BSP surfaces) To free up some perf, so they can throw in all these static_props and brushes for the buildings, I'm not saying the latter is a bad thing, but it should not coincide with lowering texture quality and lower light-map resolution.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;35297048]They are making a ton of the textures without $detail, even more low res (and often stretched on the BSP surfaces) To free up some perf, so they can throw in all these static_props and brushes for the buildings, I'm not saying the latter is a bad thing, but it should not coincide with lowering texture quality and lower light-map resolution.[/QUOTE] hidden path is spearheading the project. this is also why L4D didn't have $detail. Portal 2, however, had amazing textures. Also this is interesting [url]http://tech-artists.org/downloads/GDC2011/GDC2011_BronwenGrimes_NonstandardTextures.pdf[/url] [editline]26th March 2012[/editline] Also Valve can convert .bsp into .obj with a simple Maya plugin [editline]26th March 2012[/editline] Very interesting.
Any possibility of HL3 at E3?
[QUOTE=Gabe Newell;35297279]hidden path is spearheading the project. this is also why L4D didn't have $detail. Portal 2, however, had amazing textures. Also this is interesting [url]http://tech-artists.org/downloads/GDC2011/GDC2011_BronwenGrimes_NonstandardTextures.pdf[/url] [editline]26th March 2012[/editline] Also Valve can convert .bsp into .obj with a simple Maya plugin [editline]26th March 2012[/editline] Very interesting.[/QUOTE] L4D (1) had $detail, VALVe and Turtlerock (who worked on CS:S) L4D1 had better detail and the AI system worked better (mainly because the people who made the AI system worked on the game aswell). L4D2 didn't have $detail because of 2 things, they didn't know much about it, and Vid ram on consoles, they ran out of video ram so they tried cutting it back by removing $detail. Portal 2 had a few damn nice textures, but also had some crappy ones, they could afford some really nice ones because, well, Portal 2 uses only like 30 - 40 textures in one map so it can spare texture memory on the consoles (Consoles only have ~250 Mb, my PC has 2gb)
[QUOTE=TCB;35290485]Half-Life 2's lighting is fucking beautiful.[/QUOTE] Take a good look at the lighting in L4D2; props are somehow directly lit by the sun on all surfaces inside a dark mansion.
[QUOTE=Sonic_l0lz;35298215]Take a good look at the lighting in L4D2; props are somehow directly lit by the sun on all surfaces inside a dark mansion.[/QUOTE] And there's this one glowing door in a safehouse in The Parish (IIRC) that annoys me every time I play.
[QUOTE=Sonic_l0lz;35298215]Take a good look at the lighting in L4D2; props are somehow directly lit by the sun on all surfaces inside a dark mansion.[/QUOTE] that's called ambient lighting it's not some mystical error where the lightmaps were built improperly and light from the sun accidentally cast through walls, it's a default setting to set a standard illumination across the whole map and even with ambient lighting, source's lighting is really nice considering how obsessed valve is with supporting ancient hardware. source isn't pushing any graphical boundaries but i think with some of the additions made to the engine with CS:GO it's clear that valve intends on keeping it as up to date as it can without sacrificing the huge market of hardware that they're trying to target
[QUOTE=Kopimi;35298445]that's called ambient lighting it's not some mystical error where the lightmaps were built improperly and light from the sun accidentally cast through walls, it's a default setting to set a standard illumination across the whole map and even with ambient lighting, source's lighting is really nice considering how obsessed valve is with supporting ancient hardware. source isn't pushing any graphical boundaries but i think with some of the additions made to the engine with CS:GO it's clear that valve intends on keeping it as up to date as it can without sacrificing the huge market of hardware that they're trying to target[/QUOTE] No, it isn't. The ambient lighting is already in use for that area, but few props receive their lighting from the sun instead.
[QUOTE=Sonic_l0lz;35298495]No, it isn't. The ambient lighting is already in use for that area, but few props receive their lighting from the sun instead.[/QUOTE] if they're lit on all surfaces how can you differentiate between ambient lighting and lighting cast by the sun
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