• Black Mesa: Source V3 - Released September 14th, 2012
    10,000 replies, posted
I personally don't mind that design choice, it looks like an alligator now, and alligators are badass. Probably the only NPC change that bothers me is the Sentry Guns, they scrapped them in favour of a reskin of HL2's Combine Sentry gun, which is not only lazy, but bothers me because from a design and combat perspective, is much less stable and cannot secure a very large area. The main difference between the HECU and Combine SG's were that the HECU Sentry was supposed an area denial tool, while the Combine Sentry was a support tool. The HECU turret had 360º rotation, a stable platform, etc while the Combine sentry had maybe a 110º rotation and an unstable platform (a defect that according to the overwiki wasn't noted until they were fielded). [editline]14th June 2012[/editline] And really that's just me being picky because the HECU Sentry was my favourite.
[QUOTE=Marphy Black;36332389]They don't look at at a room and think "How does this fit within the facility?"[/QUOTE] I don't think they need to ask themselves that question: [img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/5678353/480/Threads/Black-Mesa-Research-Facility-HL-Map-007aaa1.jpg?v0[/img] [URL]http://boourns.cjb.net/images.php?view=4425[/URL] (larger image) The original complex in Half-Life 1 made absolutely [B]NO SENSE[/B]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;36332668]I personally don't mind that design choice, it looks like an alligator now, and alligators are badass. Probably the only NPC change that bothers me is the Sentry Guns, they scrapped them in favour of a reskin of HL2's Combine Sentry gun, which is not only lazy, but bothers me because from a design and combat perspective, is much less stable and cannot secure a very large area. The main difference between the HECU and Combine SG's were that the HECU Sentry was supposed an area denial tool, while the Combine Sentry was a support tool. The HECU turret had 360º rotation, a stable platform, etc while the Combine sentry had maybe a 110º rotation and an unstable platform (a defect that according to the overwiki wasn't noted until they were fielded). [editline]14th June 2012[/editline] And really that's just me being picky because the HECU Sentry was my favourite.[/QUOTE] I fucking loved the HL1 HECU sentries. Yeah they were fuck all annoying, but they always made me think "why can't [B]I[/B] use that" They gave us sentries in HL2 to use but those fragile things tipped when you walked past them. FYI, they did have the original turret [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9-JyLNBw_E&feature=player_embedded[/media] [img]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/4/4c/Sentry.jpg[/img] But it was almost impossible to knock over the way it was in a gameplay situation. The current one still has 360º rotation and is, in fact, a variation of this model with 2 legs moved forward. [img]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/6/66/Ground_sentry.jpg[/img] As you can see, it's much more then a combine turret reskin
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;36332511]you provide no other examples[/QUOTE]I am [i]not[/i] a performing monkey! But since you asked, I'll give you another example (but just a small one since you were so impolite): it's a well known fact that the [url=http://combineoverwiki.net/w/images/3/31/HECU_balaclava_model.jpg]balaclava-wearing HECU soldier[/url] will not return in Black Mesa. Their justification is that [url=http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/HECU_Marine#Combat_Armor]it doesn't jive with their Face Creation System[/url]. However, there's a fatal problem here. The balaclava wasn't just for eyecandy. In Half-Life, the head variations on the grunts [i]define[/i] the type of grunt they are. Gas masks indicate the standard MP5 grunt. The red beret indicates the normal MP5 squad leader. The cigar-chomping flat top indicates the MP5 squad leader [i]with[/i] grenade launcher. Lastly, the balaclava designated the grunts who use shotguns. This is a critical game mechanic as clear and instant identification of your foes should be a top priority in battle, especially if it means avoiding a shotgun blast at point blank range. Nonetheless, the Black Mesa team doesn't care about that in the slightest and would just as happily cut the balaclavas simply because [url=http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost.php?p=85795&postcount=3512]they're unrealistic[/url]. Incidentally, the balaclava's supposed conflict with the Face Creation System is a pretty asinine reasoning to cut it entirely. You could easily create a head submodel tailored specifically to the balaclava head variation (in other words, without a face under the mask) so that it wouldn't clash with the FCS in any way. I sincerely hope this kind of grievous short-sightedness didn't cause sacrifices elsewhere in the mod. [QUOTE=Meatpuppet;36332478]and i sincerely doubt that any mod team has put in this much effort to make a mod[/QUOTE]I suggest you check out [url=http://thenamelessmod.com/real/]The Nameless Mod[/url], an absolutely amazing Deus Ex modification. It didn't set out to revamp the graphics, but it delivers completely reworked game mechanics, a metric crap ton of new NPCS, weapons, sounds, music, and etc., [i]hours[/i] (14!) of new [i]spoken[/i] dialogue, dozens and dozens of new maps, and a massive new fictional universe drenched in lore and story branches comparable to Deus Ex itself (that's certainly a feat!). This mod also took seven years of development, but naturally, no one cares since it's for Deus Ex.
I like the turret model.
Well the cool thing about all this is that if you don't like something in the mod, replace it! I'm fairly certain that both the old bullsquid model and turret model were leaked along with the rest of BM back in 2005 and I'm sure you could find a copy of it floating around somewhere. EDIT: Not that I'm advocating downloading their ridiculously old leak, I'm just saying that if you have a problem with some of the models, there are plenty of solutions already floating around the community. I also wouldn't be surprised if people release small mods like this to improve BM after release.
[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;36332938] [IMG]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/6/66/Ground_sentry.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE] Eugh... I absolutely hate the way the legs on that turret looks. So what if the older one was 'near impossible' to knock over? Force players to think outside the box (I doubt many people who would play this will have trouble with that) When this comes out (Notice i'm saying when now), IF they release all of the files, i'm gonna throw some emails around and see if they'd give us the files for the old HECU turret and the older bullsquid model. (Because I do kind of hate way they switched the eyes up on the more recent one) If they do that I will have no complaints.
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;36332835]I don't think they need to ask themselves that question: [img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/5678353/480/Threads/Black-Mesa-Research-Facility-HL-Map-007aaa1.jpg?v0[/img] [URL]http://boourns.cjb.net/images.php?view=4425[/URL] (larger image) The original complex in Half-Life 1 made absolutely [B]NO SENSE[/B][/QUOTE] theres a parking area over a cliff wat
The thing is the SG is, if it's true that it still has 360º rotation, then all it would take is some modeler like an hour to restore it to how it was (I think, I have zero knowledge on modeling), then just replace it. Personally I would have made it so that if it was too hard to knock over, give it a set health. Surely, armoured or not, that small turret will malfunction after being hit with 20 rounds from an MP5, right?
Actually it would probably take less than 20 minutes to make the legs look like how it used to. Since you can clearly see they are the same legs as before, just the polys are shifted, so all you'd need to do is shift them back Now I have no idea how you do collision meshes, so maybe it would take an hour, idk. Also for the bullsquid, most creatures with eyes on the side like that are passive in nature so it probably makes sense to be the way it is, it being a hostile and quite ferocious creature. Not sure if I like them there, but it does kind of make sense I guess.
Actually, it might take even less time to get the files for the old turret model assuming the person(s) who worked on it would give them to you. Besides, everything about that new one is really switched up. Not just the legs, but the top portion looks a bit different too.
That screenshot was uploaded a while ago. Maybe it looks better now? I'm okay with the change for gameplay purposes and all, but the way that one was done it almost looks mangled
[QUOTE=Marphy Black;36333267]I am [i]not[/i] a performing monkey! But since you asked, I'll give you another example (but just a small one since you were so impolite): it's a well known fact that the [url=http://combineoverwiki.net/w/images/3/31/HECU_balaclava_model.jpg]balaclava-wearing HECU soldier[/url] will not return in Black Mesa. Their justification is that [url=http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/HECU_Marine#Combat_Armor]it doesn't jive with their Face Creation System[/url]. However, there's a fatal problem here. The balaclava wasn't just for eyecandy. In Half-Life, the head variations on the grunts [i]define[/i] the type of grunt they are. Gas masks indicate the standard MP5 grunt. The red beret indicates the normal MP5 squad leader. The cigar-chomping flat top indicates the MP5 squad leader [i]with[/i] grenade launcher. Lastly, the balaclava designated the grunts who use shotguns. This is a critical game mechanic as clear and instant identification of your foes should be a top priority in battle, especially if it means avoiding a shotgun blast at point blank range. Nonetheless, the Black Mesa team doesn't care about that in the slightest and would just as happily cut the balaclavas simply because [url=http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost.php?p=85795&postcount=3512]they're unrealistic[/url]. Incidentally, the balaclava's supposed conflict with the Face Creation System is a pretty asinine reasoning to cut it entirely. You could easily create a head submodel tailored specifically to the balaclava head variation (in other words, without a face under the mask) so that it wouldn't clash with the FCS in any way. I sincerely hope this kind of grievous short-sightedness didn't cause sacrifices elsewhere in the mod. I suggest you check out [url=http://thenamelessmod.com/real/]The Nameless Mod[/url], an absolutely amazing Deus Ex modification. It didn't set out to revamp the graphics, but it delivers completely reworked game mechanics, a metric crap ton of new NPCS, weapons, sounds, music, and etc., [i]hours[/i] (14!) of new [i]spoken[/i] dialogue, dozens and dozens of new maps, and a massive new fictional universe drenched in lore and story branches comparable to Deus Ex itself (that's certainly a feat!). This mod also took seven years of development, but naturally, no one cares since it's for Deus Ex.[/QUOTE] So what, if they replace the baclava with something else that makes it easy to define a shotgun enemy who gives a shit? It's not like they don't know this. And considering they test this all the time, I'm sure they tried out the new turret versus the old (they did), and the old turret simply wasn't suited for the physics gameplay. The only really stupid change is the bullsquid. And now that we're on the subject, I always hated how chubby their houndeye looks compared to the slim one in HL2 concept art in RtB
I'm really glad they changed the MP5 model. After looking back at this one, it doesn't seem as cool (or as detailed) as I remember. Having a red dot on it is just stupid [IMG]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/a/ac/Mp5_release11_002.jpg[/IMG] Also this doesn't matter at all, but I think it's really awesome how they even animated the secondary fire so he actually presses the grenade launcher trigger instead of somehow magically launching it from the weapon trigger. I'm a sucker for little details like that.
[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;36336424]I'm really glad they changed the MP5 model. After looking back at this one, it doesn't seem as cool (or as detailed) as I remember. Having a red dot on it is just stupid [IMG]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/a/ac/Mp5_release11_002.jpg[/IMG] Also this doesn't matter at all, but I think it's really awesome how they even animated the secondary fire so he actually presses the grenade launcher trigger instead of somehow magically launching it from the weapon trigger. I'm a sucker for little details like that.[/QUOTE] Dat Jeep.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;36336530]Dat Jeep.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.blackmesasource.com/media/joop_beauty.jpg[/IMG]
Are we all really complaining about one NPC's eyes being slightly modified to look better? This is a HD revision of the original game. Expect changes.
Personally, I never noticed the shotgun soldiers were wearing balaclavas in the original game until I played op4, looked them up, and then found out they were wearing them in HL1 [IMG]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/3/32/Bm_c2a1a0025.jpg[/IMG] I'm really itching to play this mod if only for the fact that it has the gluon + gibbing in source. I really want to see how this weapon functions in game.
[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;36336424]I'm really glad they changed the MP5 model. After looking back at this one, it doesn't seem as cool (or as detailed) as I remember. Having a red dot on it is just stupid [IMG]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/a/ac/Mp5_release11_002.jpg[/IMG] Also this doesn't matter at all, but I think it's really awesome how they even animated the secondary fire so he actually presses the grenade launcher trigger instead of somehow magically launching it from the weapon trigger. I'm a sucker for little details like that.[/QUOTE] I somehow prefer that model, that is, if they remove the red dot. Probably because of its position from the 1st person view.
[QUOTE=ThePfeiffenator;36330557]I am pretty sure Black Mesa was destroyed by a nuke. Unless there is a time machine on the Borealis and [B]you have to go back in time to stop the resonance cascade from ever happening, before the nuke blew up the facility[/B].[/QUOTE] That could work- that could be a satisfying end to Half-Life if done right.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;36338256]That could work- that could be a satisfying end to Half-Life if done right.[/QUOTE] Would set up quite a boring premise for HL3 "Good morning Mr Freeman, the sample couldn't be delivered so we're not doing the test anyway. Have a nice day."
[url]http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost.php?p=465788&postcount=19078[/url] [quote]We are releasing the game in parts, we've said as much on many occasions.[/quote] Now he probably means In 2 Parts, MP and SP. But you never know. [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] Oh.. wait [url]http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost.php?p=465799&postcount=19083[/url] [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] Also more dev response on the Bullsquid changes [url]http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost.php?p=465767&postcount=222[/url] [quote]It's not a case of making it more realistic, it's more about making him readable in-game (you can see what he is paying attention to) and more alive (he's not just static). Aesthetically, yes, the eyes on the side look better, but there's more to game design than just the way something looks. [/quote]
Aw, man. You really never know if Raminator is serious or not. Stop teasing us! D: Still, I believe too, that he means part1: Singleplayer and part2: Multiplayer.
Part 1: all contents except gameinfo.txt and the bin folder.
[QUOTE=Marphy Black;36333267]I suggest you check out [url=http://thenamelessmod.com/real/]The Nameless Mod[/url], an absolutely amazing Deus Ex modification. It didn't set out to revamp the graphics, but it delivers completely reworked game mechanics, a metric crap ton of new NPCS, weapons, sounds, music, and etc., [i]hours[/i] (14!) of new [i]spoken[/i] dialogue, dozens and dozens of new maps, and a massive new fictional universe drenched in lore and story branches comparable to Deus Ex itself (that's certainly a feat!). This mod also took seven years of development, but naturally, no one cares since it's for Deus Ex.[/QUOTE] The Nameless Mod isn't ignored because it's for Deus Ex, it's ignored because despite all the effort put into it, it's a celebratory fan forum circlejerk mod full of in-jokes and community references and such - it's impenetrable to anyone approaching it as, you know, a total conversion mod. All that time and effort was wasted on a story that could never appeal to a wider audience. (I hate elaborating these obvious things but someone will comeback on it) I'm not saying it's impossible to play through, but you play that mod for 4 hours as an outsider and tell me you understand what's going on. All I could make out was "Go find the lost 'moderator' because the current one is an asshole - in Deus Ex." As for BM, I get what you're saying about the HECU - on the one hand they're making enemy recognition more ambiguous out of a perceived "laziness", which could be argued as a push for realism - except they've already set a precedent with the bullsquid for exactly the opposite, favouring quick enemy state recognition over 'realism'. First, I'd point out that we don't know for sure that the HECU 'classes' are ambiguous - only that they're not wearing balaclavas. It may turn out they all have different body builds, different shades of a similar uniform, their silhouettes may be suitably varied and so on. Second, if all you want from the Black Mesa team is a perfect recreation of the original in 'HD', well, shit, you should have just convinced FakeFactory to slap some 4096x4096 textures on everything and called it a day. I'm looking forward to a reimagining, not a perfect recreation. (Those turrets really are stupid though, and it's as though the BM team forgot that there's more ways to disable a turret than just knocking it over)
[QUOTE=ewitwins;36336530]Dat Jeep.[/QUOTE] You mean Joop. I for one am not a fan of the new bullsquids. They look stupid now.
[QUOTE=subenji99;36339603]I'm not saying it's impossible to play through, but you play that mod for 4 hours as an outsider and tell me you understand what's going on. All I could make out was "Go find the lost 'moderator' because the current one is an asshole - in Deus Ex."[/QUOTE] That is exactly how I felt about it. I just couldn't get into it because the story wasn't relatable or understandable to anyone who wasn't very involved in their forum.
[QUOTE=Marcolade;36318512]I was thinking more along the lines of They Hunger or Sven Co-op.[/QUOTE] Absolutely. USS Darkstar...
[QUOTE=Memobot;36341804]Absolutely. USS Darkstar...[/QUOTE] Or even the sequel to it that never got made.
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;36341860]Or even the sequel to it that never got made.[/QUOTE] They planned a sequel? Talk me more (in private) about it. I want to see more images about the Lambda Complex itself (the lastest pic about the portal was awesome).
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