• Are we too hard on Religion?
    629 replies, posted
No. What are you talking about.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;34771991]Or wait.. this doesn't make any sense to anybody either?[/QUOTE] nope
Of course there's some probability that a general higher power/God exists. But what i can assure you of is that [B]none[/B] of the god's mentioned in any of the current existing ''holy'' scriptures exists.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;34771602]But is it [I]impossible[/I] for a God/higher power to actually exist?[/QUOTE] Certainly not impossible, it's just that there's been no evidence that suggests that one does exist.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34774322]Certainly not impossible, it's just that there's been no evidence that suggests that one does exist.[/QUOTE] But what about the testimony of millions, if not billions, of people? How can we rightfully dismiss it, when all we have done is disproved something supernatural using natural methods? Especially when the science we use itself is [I]far[/I] from complete.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;34774788]But what about the testimony of millions, if not billions, of people? How can we rightfully dismiss it, when all we have done is disproved something supernatural using natural methods? Especially when the science we use itself is [I]far[/I] from complete.[/QUOTE] What testimony is this exactly could you give some examples? And when did we disprove the supernatural using science? (assuming that's what you mean by natural methods)
There is no point arguing over religion. One simply can not prove that a god [B]does[/B] exist, but also can not prove that a god [B]doesn't[/B] exist. Ludwig Wittgenstein once said that "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.". People have hard time accepting that [B]fact[/B] and have some strange need to try and prove other people wrong and themselves right. Nobody is being too hard on religion, people are just being people.
[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;34775148]There is no point arguing over religion. One simply can not prove that a god [B]does[/B] exist, but also can not prove that a god [B]doesn't[/B] exist.[/QUOTE] Yes, you can prove that god exists and you can prove god doesn't exist using logical arguments, this is what theologians and philosophers have been trying to do as far back as Ancient Greece. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God#Arguments_for_the_existence_of_God[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God#Arguments_against_the_existence_of_God[/url]
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;34774788]But what about the testimony of millions, if not billions, of people? How can we rightfully dismiss it, when all we have done is disproved something supernatural using natural methods? Especially when the science we use itself is [I]far[/I] from complete.[/QUOTE] Testimony doesn't mean anything if there is[I] nothing [/I]else proving it. It's like being in court, and five people are saying that John committed [I]a crime[/I]. And that's it. There's no weapon, no victim, nothing.
Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff. Not that it would matter anyways.
[QUOTE=Smeetin;34777136]Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.[/QUOTE] WOAH GUYS THIS DUDE IS SERIOUS WE BETTER BACK OFF (Since when did we need those to aruge on whether we're too hard on religion?)
[QUOTE=Smeetin;34777136]Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.[/QUOTE] Sure.
[QUOTE=Smeetin;34777136]Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.[/QUOTE] Thanks for contributing that wonderful chunk of ad hominem to the thread.
So, you should bring all that science, philosophy, theology and shit together. Then you might get a pretty good picture what other "God's" there could be dwelling in the universe..
[QUOTE=Smeetin;34777136]Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.[/QUOTE] Because you need a degree to argue this stuff, eh? Do you have one?
[QUOTE=Sickle;34704460]Wrong. Hitler used Christianity to appeal to the masses to rise to power. It got him a lot of votes.[/QUOTE] All right, let's take a step back here for a second. I had originally responded to the picture of Nazis, which could mean anything: the poster thinking Nazis were religiously motivated to start and fight World War II, or initiate the Holocaust, or be a major pillar to their rise to power. I decided to interpret it as the first two. [QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;34697658]You're going to have to explain to me how the Nazis (who basically replaced the Bible with Mein Kampf) and their atrocities and them starting WWII in Europe was majorly connected to religion.[/QUOTE] To which was replied: [quote]I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. - Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936[/quote] This is not sufficient evidence to prove that the Holocaust, the initiation of World War II, and the persecution of minorities were [I]majorly[/I] connected to religion. Almost everything done points to political, ideological, and racial lines. For example, Hitler did not refuse surrender from the city of Leningrad because "those damn Russian Eastern Orthodox heathens will suffer God's wrath!" No, it's because he didn't want a single block of it standing, because the Slavic race was seen as sub-human. Thus the city was besieged for well over 900 days in arguably the most destructive and bloody siege in human history. I replied: [QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;34702740]Much of what Hitler's cronies did was fueled by bigotry and hatred based off of a warped ideology of racial superiority. The Holocaust was not religiously motivated. The ignition of WWII in Europe was not religiously motivated. Hitler and the Nazis did not rise to power by appealing to the religious.[/QUOTE] And you responded: [QUOTE=Sickle;34704460]Wrong. Hitler used Christianity to appeal to the masses to rise to power. It got him a lot of votes.[/QUOTE] Unless you can find the vote counts for the elections at that time, I honestly have a hard time believing this. The Nazis did not parade around going on about heathens and the unfaithful. No, they paraded around going on about German supremacy, x minority group is a plague on society, etc. I'm sure they appealed more than once to the religious by saying how Judaism was an evil cult, but everything else was based on racial and idealogical lines. But the whole point I was trying to make is that the Nazis did not initiate the Holocaust or WWII in Europe based on religious motives. If you can prove that a lot of his votes came from the religious, then please do, because truth be told I am not very well informed on Hitler's initial rise to power beyond a few books.
I don't know I guess, I feel like it's always a constant battle where there's no real winner. I feel that religion shouldn't be forced on people, but I'm completely okay with it. I'm a Roman Catholic with no issues with others but I try to follow the set rules and guidelines. But, I used to have a friend who took his atheism way too far. To the point where he told his girlfriend that he wouldn't go to her church to see her get confirmed(?) because he wanted nothing to do with any sort of church. I always saw atheism as a choice not to follow a religion, but to also tolerate others' religions. I see no fault in going, hell, I've gone to synagogues(correct me if I spelled that wrong) to see my jewish friends bar/batmitsvah services. I thought it was interesting. But, we all reserve right to our own honest opinions.
[QUOTE=Smeetin;34777136]Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff. Not that it would matter anyways.[/QUOTE] It's amazing because everybody missed the fucking point of this thread. Which is to [b]not fucking argue about the existence or non-existence of gods[/b].
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34783941]It's amazing because everybody missed the fucking point of this thread. Which is to [b]not fucking argue about the existence or non-existence of gods[/b].[/QUOTE] Nowhere in the OP does it say that Also I think the existence of god is pretty important in regards to the validity of religious belief and whether or not we are too hard on people believing things that are demonstrably false.
[QUOTE=Noble;34786030]Nowhere in the OP does it say that Also I think the existence of god is pretty important in regards to the validity of religious belief and whether or not we are too hard on people believing things that are demonstrably false.[/QUOTE] You're a fucking moron if you think you can "disprove" religion. There are [i]a few[/i] things that are "demonstrably false", but there aren't all that many when you consider that there's more to religion than those specific things. Just try to "demonstrate" that pantheism is false. Or Buddhism. Or even fucking Christianity. Yes, I get to use Russel's Teapot on the [i]theistic[/i] side of the argument.
So because you are "right", you can say what you like about people who are "wrong"?
[QUOTE=Noble;34786030]Nowhere in the OP does it say that Also I think the existence of god is pretty important in regards to the validity of religious belief and whether or not we are too hard on people believing things that are demonstrably false.[/QUOTE] Or MAYBE the belief in God doesn't even have any importance if you don't really feel the need for hope, unlike some unfortunate people around the world who lack everything that we modernized people have.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;34786303]Or MAYBE the belief in God doesn't even have any importance if you don't really feel the need for hope, unlike some unfortunate people around the world who lack everything that we modernized people have.[/QUOTE] Way to go, you just insulted the vast majority of the world's population for no reason!
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34786325]Way to go, you just insulted the vast majority of the world's population for no reason![/QUOTE] Oh, like the middle-high class wealthy conservative American families eating well every day, going to great jobs, and thanking God for all the things that they do? When at the same time God is the only remaining source of hope/joy for some unfortunate people. So who's insulting who now? ANd even if you are a wealthy, healthy and an upstanding human citizen (who wouldn't have much use for hope et cet.), I wouldn't judge or insult if you chose to pray and meditate every week for shits and giggles.
No we aren't because they are hard on us. Seriously, you think we are hard on religion? If we don't worship religion they think we should be dead, killed, raped, put in prison(Which is ironic as 1% of the prison is atheist) and I would never want that from someone, I just want people to stop being close minded idiots and actually free think for once. I think religion helps bad people be good, but at the same time, I hate what it does to people.
[QUOTE=Shiftyze;34786447]No we aren't because they are hard on us. Seriously, you think we are hard on religion? If we don't worship religion they think we should be dead, killed, raped, put in prison(Which is ironic as 1% of the prison is atheist) and I would never want that from someone, I just want people to stop being close minded idiots and actually free think for once. I think religion helps bad people be good, but at the same time, I hate what it does to people.[/QUOTE] Way to generalize all religion into one giant lump of hate. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bat-shit;34786359]Oh, like the middle-high class wealthy conservative American families eating well every day, going to great jobs, and thanking God for all the things that they do? When at the same time God is the only remaining source of hope/joy for some unfortunate people. So who's insulting who now? ANd even if you are a wealthy, healthy and an upstanding human citizen (who wouldn't have much use for hope et cet.), I wouldn't judge or insult if you chose to pray and meditate every week for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE] Alright, what the fuck are you going on about?
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34786453]Alright, what the fuck are you going on about?[/QUOTE] It says in my post so dunno how else to respond to that question.
We are not hard enough. Religion is one of the main causes of war. I dont think the human race can "evolve" without abolishing it. By evolve i mean to advance socially and scientifically
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34786727]We are not hard enough. Religion is one of the main causes of war. I dont think the human race can "evolve" without abolishing it. By evolve i mean to advance socially and scientifically[/QUOTE] Religion doesn't cause wars. It gives an excuse for them. Same as [i]literally anything else[/i].
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34786453]Way to generalize all religion into one giant lump of hate.[/QUOTE]Okay. Tell me. How many times have you seen an Atheist say "Fuck all religions they should all die or get killed". Almost all wars are based on religion and you seriously think I'm generalizing? Ha how many atheists have you seen tell a religious person to go die? Compared to religion goers? Tell me sir? Since I'm generalizing factual proof of religionm, the main cause of war. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34786860]Religion doesn't cause wars. It gives an excuse for them. Same as [i]literally anything else[/i].[/QUOTE]Religion doesn't cause wars?? Are you fucking serious kid? Get out now, and learn history. Learn all about history, religion is the number 1 reason of war. Haha wow.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.