• Are we too hard on Religion?
    629 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34786860]Religion doesn't cause wars. It gives an excuse for them. Same as [i]literally anything else[/i].[/QUOTE] your point is as subjective as mine. Your opinion is that people start a war then blame it on religion. I am not disagreeing im just saying without religion there would be less war as they cant use it as an excuse and they cannot act in support of it. Bin Laden said he kills in the name of Allah, a religious god.
Dude, it's not just religion that causes wars.. It's complicated. It's people who fight, and it's people who use heaven and hell and other stuff as devices to incite people to fight a war. It's crazy. I mean, our whole fucking history has been [b]VERY[/b] violent: A lot of people must have asked "OH WHY?!" when something incredibly fucked up happened to them in the dark ages of history. And that's also where religious Jesus/Hippie all-loving anti-war preaching comes in, but we all know how well received that was back in the days..
[QUOTE=Shiftyze;34786864]Okay. Tell me. How many times have you seen an Atheist say "Fuck all religions they should all die or get killed". Almost all wars are based on religion and you seriously think I'm generalizing? Ha how many atheists have you seen tell a religious person to go die? Compared to religion goers? Tell me sir? Since I'm generalizing factual proof of religionm, the main cause of war. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] Religion doesn't cause wars?? Are you fucking serious kid? Get out now, and learn history. Learn all about history, religion is the number 1 reason of war. Haha wow.[/QUOTE] You appear to never have heard of nationalism, racism, greed, or royal blood-feuds... By the way I've heard a lot more hate coming from atheists toward religious people than the other way around. I know it's completely dependant on where you come from, so I don't go around spouting generalisations about it.
[QUOTE=Shiftyze;34786864]Okay. Tell me. How many times have you seen an Atheist say "Fuck all religions they should all die or get killed". Almost all wars are based on religion and you seriously think I'm generalizing? Ha how many atheists have you seen tell a religious person to go die? Compared to religion goers? Tell me sir? Since I'm generalizing factual proof of religionm, the main cause of war. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] Religion doesn't cause wars?? Are you fucking serious kid? Get out now, and learn history. Learn all about history, religion is the number 1 reason of war. Haha wow.[/QUOTE] Anti-theism. For fuck's sake, you're doing it right now. How about you learn about basic fucking human nature? It's the organization of religion that people abuse, not the fucking religion itself. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lethaxx;34786940]your point is as subjective as mine. Your opinion is that people start a war then blame it on religion. I am not disagreeing im just saying without religion there would be less war as they cant use it as an excuse and they cannot act in support of it. Bin Laden said he kills in the name of Allah, a religious god.[/QUOTE] Oh no, ONE example, surely my argument is defeated! Bin Laden was an asshole, and he always was going to be an asshole, regardless of religion.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787002]Anti-theism. For fuck's sake, you're doing it right now. How about you learn about basic fucking human nature? It's the organization of religion that people abuse, not the fucking religion itself.[/QUOTE] Thats a very valid point, abuse of the organisation of religion, but is that not a reason for abolishing it to prevent this abuse? because it will always be abused as people blindly follow it. [QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787002]Oh no, ONE example, surely my argument is defeated! Bin Laden was an asshole, and he always was going to be an asshole, regardless of religion.[/QUOTE] But religion is the reason why he did what he did. He didnt do it for any other reason.
-fuck this
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787002]Anti-theism. For fuck's sake, you're doing it right now. How about you learn about basic fucking human nature? It's the organization of religion that people abuse, not the fucking religion itself. [/QUOTE]Ah, you're right. Not the religion its self. So the bible says I must throw rocks at slaves and punish women who speak in church. I must follow the religion right? Still sounds fucked up to me, want me to remind you of some more passages to follow that don't cause religion goers to go ape shit over non-believers?
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787091]Thats a very valid point, abuse of the organisation of religion, but is that not a reason for abolishing it to prevent this abuse? because it will always be abused as people blindly follow it. But religion is the reason why he did what he did. He didnt do it for any other reason.[/QUOTE] Let's abolish porn too, while we're at it. Just think of all the child pornography that's been made! The point is that he would have found another reason. Or just gone with "fuck you, I'm taking over now".
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787002] Bin Laden was an asshole, and he always was going to be an asshole, regardless of religion.[/QUOTE] Um, no. That is a really really stupid theory. Religion is what drove him. You really do not know your shit, why do you keep posting.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787091]But religion is the reason why he did what he did. He didnt do it for any other reason.[/QUOTE] Actually that's really vague. The reason why Bin Laden did what he did is because he despised a lot of things about America which we all despise as well. Now, what could those things be, hmm? Guido-faggots perhaps?
[QUOTE=Shiftyze;34787109]Ah, you're right. Not the religion its self. So the bible says I must throw rocks at slaves and punish women who speak in church. I must follow the religion right? Still sounds fucked up to me, want me to remind you of some more passages to follow that don't cause religion goers to go ape shit over non-believers?[/QUOTE] The Bible was written by people. People, in case you didn't notice, are people, and therefore they tend to get in the way of whatever they claim was "divine inspiration" or whatever. It was edited hundreds, if not thousands, of times to fit the current culture. Even following that the Bible is infallible, we don't have any "original" copies. All we have are edited, and therefore fallible copies. (From the point of view of a Christian here, I'm not Christian myself) [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Shiftyze;34787148]Um, no. That is a really really stupid theory. Religion is what drove him. You really do not know your shit, why do you keep posting.[/QUOTE] Thank you for your truly amazing counter-argument. You're a gift to logicians and debaters everywhere.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787126]Let's abolish porn too, while we're at it. Just think of all the child pornography that's been made! The point is that he would have found another reason. Or just gone with "fuck you, I'm taking over now".[/QUOTE] People followed him because of the religion, no one goes, oh there is a random guy with no relevance to me at all so i will do as he says. The religion gave him power over people to do so, not "go kill yourself for no reason".
Politicians use the system to screw everybody for their own gain, ABOLISH POLITICS!
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787220]People followed him because of the religion, no one goes, oh there is a random guy with no relevance to me at all so i will do as he says. The religion gave him power over people to do so, not "go kill yourself for no reason".[/QUOTE] "Fight for me and I'll give you some power" "Okay" Bam, no religion necessary. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=st0rmforce;34787228]Politicians use the system to screw everybody for their own gain, ABOLISH POLITICS![/QUOTE] People abuse economics to screw everybody for their own gain, ABOLISH THE ECONOMY! It's amazing how well this applies to so many different viewpoints.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;34787167]Actually that's really vague. The reason why Bin Laden did what he did is because he despised a lot of things about America [highlight]which we all despise as well[/highlight]. Now, what could those things be, hmm? Guido-faggots perhaps?[/QUOTE] so why havent countries within africa attacked america? [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787242]"Fight for me and I'll give you some power" "Okay" Bam, no religion necessary. [/QUOTE] He came to power because of his religion he wasnt just randomly selected.
Shifty seems to be making a lot of assumptions. I didn't know he was so intimate with Osama and everyone that has decided to go to war ever.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787249]He came to power because of his religion he wasnt just randomly selected.[/QUOTE] Because he definitely couldn't have come to power any other way at all. You know, like the example I gave [i]in the post you quoted[/i].
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787311]Because he definitely couldn't have come to power any other way at all. You know, like the example I gave [i]in the post you quoted[/i].[/QUOTE] Apologies that was me misunderstanding. Yeah he could have came to power in another way but people would probably not have blindly followed him.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787249]so why havent countries within africa attacked america?[/QUOTE] Because of lack of resources, because of tightened America's homeland security, especially after the 9/11 incident? Duh? Also why would they? Bin Laden carried out an attack, yes. And there is still hate towards the American ways in the East or wherever (even in America.) But still, not as much extreme measures are taken anymore, and there I listed some reasons why.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787370]Apologies that was me misunderstanding. Yeah he could have came to power in another way but people would probably not have blindly followed him.[/QUOTE] People will do whatever you want when you put a gun to their head. Religion just gives you a gun with a different name. This one is named "Helen" and it shoots rivers of sulfur. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bat-shit;34787396]Because of lack resources, because of tightened America's homeland security, especially after the 9/11 incident? Duh? Also why would they? Bin Laden carried out an attack, yes. And there is still hate towards American ways in the East. But still, not as much extreme measures are taken anymore.[/QUOTE] Also, African countries tend to not hate us quite as much. But yeah, they couldn't even afford the plane flight to send a bomber to the US.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;34787396]Because of lack resources, because of tightened America's homeland security, especially after the 9/11 incident? Duh? Also why would they? Bin Laden carried out an attack, yes. And there is still hate towards American ways in the East or wherever. But still, not as much extreme measures are taken anymore, and I listed some reasons.[/QUOTE] lets disregard 9/11. Why didnt North Korea attack the US they have the resources and the jealousy, but their religion is not Islamic, which leads me to think that Bin Ladens attacks were purely religion motivated
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787415]Also, African countries tend to not hate us quite as much. [b]But yeah, they couldn't even afford the plane flight to send a bomber to the US.[/b][/QUOTE] And that's one reason why some do quite hate you. Americans. [QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787459]lets disregard 9/11. Why didnt North Korea attack the US they have the resources and the jealousy, but their religion is not Islamic, which leads me to think that Bin Ladens attacks were purely religion motivated[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? North fucking Korea? Do you even realize how shitty their economy is? Though they do have the "biggest" army, but that doesn't mean much when it's merely foot soldiers. And.. If you do decide to use nukes, you will also get nuked. Unless of course North Korea, being the BEST fucking Korea, took out the whole America in one hit, leaving no nukes, no nothing. Except elsewhere in the world.. of course. So, you see? Not as much extreme measures are taken anymore. And that's only a good thing for once in the middle of all this.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787459]lets disregard 9/11. Why didnt North Korea attack the US they have the resources and the jealousy, but their religion is not Islamic, which leads me to think that Bin Ladens attacks were purely religion motivated[/QUOTE] Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen faultier reasoning than this, ever. Way to completely ignore logic in your quest to paint religion as the sole reason for evil. You're even worse than religious fundamentalists at ignoring logic. Oh, the delicious irony. Look, we have these things called [i]nuclear weapons[/i]. They tend to discourage countries from attacking us. We don't know exactly where terrorist groups are, so we can't nuke them. However, it's pretty fucking obvious where North Korea is.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787551]Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen faultier reasoning than this, ever. Way to completely ignore logic in your quest to paint religion as the sole reason for evil. You're even worse than religious fundamentalists at ignoring logic. Oh, the delicious irony. Look, we have these things called [i]nuclear weapons[/i]. They tend to discourage countries from attacking us. We don't know exactly where terrorist groups are, so we can't nuke them. However, it's pretty fucking obvious where North Korea is.[/QUOTE] Ignoring logic? definition of religion for you. Your immediately assuming North Korea will use a nuke, where they could easily kill thousands of innocent people using a more inconspicuous method but they haven't. You dont know where terrorist groups are, so did america just throw some darts at a map to pick the countries to invade. The Reason why western countries dont use "terrorist" methods which intentionally kill innocent people is because the west is more advanced, socially and scientifically compared to the middle east. Religion is disregard when making international decisions where as the middle east, the more religious area, will do anything to defend their religion or to follow it.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787775]Ignoring logic? definition of religion for you. Your immediately assuming North Korea will use a nuke, where they could easily kill thousands of innocent people using a more inconspicuous method but they haven't. You dont know where terrorist groups are, so did america just throw some darts at a map to pick the countries to invade. The Reason why western countries dont use "terrorist" methods which intentionally kill innocent people is because the west is more advanced, socially and scientifically compared to the middle east. Religion is disregard when making international decisions where as the middle east, the more religious area, will do anything to defend their religion or to follow it.[/QUOTE] I'm saying that the reason that NK doesn't invade is because THE US HAS NUKES. And you seriously think the US cares about civilian causalities? What kind of world do you live in? Have you even SEEN statistics for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787869]I'm saying that the reason that NK doesn't invade is because THE US HAS NUKES. And you seriously think the US cares about civilian causalities? What kind of world do you live in? Have you even SEEN statistics for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?[/QUOTE] What im trying to say is that the US does not make decisions purely to kill innocent people.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;34787775]Ignoring logic? definition of religion for you. [/QUOTE] This made me laugh. What do you mean by that? Your excuse for ignoring logic, is that the thing you're arguing against does?
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34787869]I'm saying that the reason that NK doesn't invade is because THE US HAS NUKES. And you seriously think the US cares about civilian causalities? What kind of world do you live in? Have you even SEEN statistics for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?[/QUOTE] 'bout 5000 U.S. soldiers dead.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;34788354]'bout 5000 U.S. soldiers dead.[/QUOTE] 600 000+ civilian deaths and +1 000 000 total deaths in Afghanistan (and this is a very optimistic statistic) [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] *(Afghanistan and Irak)
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;34786183]You're a fucking moron if you think you can "disprove" religion. There are [i]a few[/i] things that are "demonstrably false", but there aren't all that many when you consider that there's more to religion than those specific things. Just try to "demonstrate" that pantheism is false. Or Buddhism.[/QUOTE] Lol why are you so mad? And where did I claim that I think I can "disprove religion". I'm arguing that the existence of the god of the bible (defined as an all knowing, all powerful, and all good being) can be disproved with logical arguments. [quote] Or even fucking Christianity.[/quote] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_god#Arguments_against_the_existence_of_God"]Entirely arguable[/url]
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