• Charmstone, Naturopathy, Ozone therapy and other alternative medicine
    39 replies, posted
Here we discuss shit on do these work or not. In my opinion most of them are purely placebo, but some shit like Homeopathy may work, but those crystals containing energy which are supposed to heal you, not likely [B]links[/B] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charmstone[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_therapy[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine[/URL] [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Polierte_Schmucksteine_beschriftet_800pix.jpg/584px-Polierte_Schmucksteine_beschriftet_800pix.jpg[/IMG] [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] Also notice how most of the people who believe these charmstone stuff are usually well educated young women. How many times have you seen men doing shit like these? I mean of course there are men who do this, but.
Homeopathy is a ridiculous extrapolation of other, real phenomena. The concentrations are ridiculous, until the people selling it come up with some scientific evidence for "water memory" it should be considered bullshit.
[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;34481100]Homeopathy is a ridiculous extrapolation of other, real phenomena. The concentrations are ridiculous, until the people selling it come up with some scientific evidence for "water memory" it should be considered bullshit.[/QUOTE] Somebody did prove that water memory exists, but homoeopaths downplay the fact that the time-frames involved are measured in picoseconds. Homoeopathy can be explained with a combination of the placebo effect and regression to the mean.
The vast majority of alternate medicine (That is anything not proven by a collection of real scientists who know how shit works) is more or less bullshit. They have grains of truth in them with regards to having a placebo effect, or some may reduce stress slightly as they may be glorified massages. But they are essentially bullshit, that often borders on the line of badly hurting the person who could be seeking real medical treatment instead. Herbal medicine is marginally better in that it helps in some medical conditions, but since then vastly more improved alternatives have been created. Every day humans get closer to curing diseases, lengthening lives and improving overall health. But certainly alternative medicine is NOT the way to be going about it.
[QUOTE=st0rmforce;34481296]Somebody did prove that water memory exists, but homoeopaths downplay the fact that the time-frames involved are measured in picoseconds.[/QUOTE] The only studies that were shown that water has 'water memory' were later repeated with zero evidence to the fact. If you happen to have a reliable source, however, then go ahead and post.
they don't do shit
99% bullshit. Some herbs do have some effects, however they are no substitute for actual medicine (sure the herb might calm you a bit, but if you have real anxiety problems it won't help jack shit). If anything some can be decent for "lightweight" problems (if you feel a bit anxious and downing a Xanax is way too much, that herb might help). However so does a cup of tepid milk with honey, doesn't make it medicine.
You realize the picture spelled hematite wrong, right? This is in German, isn't it?
Though if the placebo is strong enough to solve the problem, it might be better than normal treatments (in case of psychological problems). If the guy has anxiety problems and believes the alternative shit works, it's better to give him a compact pill made from free-range trees and all natural hair from the Hiawatha tribe (that is really only some compacted flour) than putting him on some heavy anti-depressant that has a tonne of nasty side-effects.
Homeopathy is 100% bullshit. It's literally nothing but water. [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] There's a reason alternative medicine is alternative: It doesn't work
I'll buy it, as long as there's reliable research to back it up.
It's a con, pushers of everything listed in the OP ought to be locked up as quacks. That's my attitude in a nutshell. [QUOTE=sp00ks;34481954]Homeopathy is 100% bullshit. It's literally nothing but water. [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] There's a reason alternative medicine is alternative: It doesn't work[/QUOTE] This.
From a Western dualistic viewpoint yes. The thing with traditional eastern medicine and indeed with things such as meditation, which originated in the east, are that the effects are experiental, and thus can't really be measured (as you can't exactly measure the effects on people's feelings) aside from experiencing them yourself. I mean, you could [i]consider[/i] all of that that to be a placebo in effect, much like you might dismiss something as simple as meditation with "so what? sitting and thinking about nothing? what good can that do you?" until you tried it and it had a profound effect on you which improved the quality of your life. That said, I'd be cautious if you decided to try certain things (like acupuncture, chakras or Qi-gong) as the internet has allowed tons of psuedo-scientific, esoteric nonsense to take the place of legitimate well-sourced information which was written with solely good-intentions.
Homeopathy is bullshit, you have to be very very lucky to get even a SINGLE molecule of whatever the active ingredient is in that bottle of water you buy for $19.95.
I would be in favour of it, if the quacks didn't sell it the way they do. The placebo effect [i]can[/i] actually make people better and it has no side-effects, so where's the harm? Well, the problem is that it gets in the way of real medicine. One extreme example is the fact that most alternative medicine practitioners, including homoeopaths are dead against vaccination and campaign against it. I remember somebody saying that he thinks we could have eradicated Measles by now if it wasn't for the efforts of Homoeopaths. Another problem is untrained people are pretending to know what they're talking about. It's fine if somebody comes in with something that isn't serious, they're given an empty pill and get better on their own. But if somebody comes in with something dangerous, the quack probably isn't going to know until the patient dies.
[QUOTE=acds;34481892]Though if the placebo is strong enough to solve the problem, it might be better than normal treatments (in case of psychological problems). If the guy has anxiety problems and believes the alternative shit works, it's better to give him a compact pill made from free-range trees and all natural hair from the Hiawatha tribe (that is really only some compacted flour) than putting him on some heavy anti-depressant that has a tonne of nasty side-effects.[/QUOTE] Umm... We define medicine as something that works better at treating something than a placebo. So a Placebo can never be better than actual medicine.
nearly 100% bullshit
Alternative medicine creating a placebo effect is no excuse for it to be accepted as standard medical practice. At the very most, anything other than a scientifically proven method of proper medical attention is only good for making people with more money than sense more reassured. If its ever used to treat a real medical condition, it sickens me to think that somebody will be putting their faith in ancient quack methods based on the advice of a con man or fool. The placebo effect can also be managed by using a simple sugar pill rather than an elaborate procedure like acupuncture, which has been dis-proven along with other snake oil medical treatments.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;34494373]The thing with traditional eastern medicine and indeed with things such as meditation, which originated in the east, are that the effects are experiental, and thus can't really be measured (as you can't exactly measure the effects on people's feelings) aside from experiencing them yourself. I mean, you could [i]consider[/i] all of that that to be a placebo in effect, much like you might dismiss something as simple as meditation with "so what? sitting and thinking about nothing? what good can that do you?" until you tried it and it had a profound effect on you which improved the quality of your life.[/QUOTE] no we really can quantify this. we have MRI machines
Nothing but placebo bullshit.
it's a fucking rock you can't possibly find something in nature that does [b]less[/b] than these things
All BS but meditation, which has various good effects on your health (although it's not for treating specific conditions). It's important not to mix up alternative medicine and herbal medicine. Herbal medicine often works, after all, most drugs are synthesised from plant extracts.
[QUOTE=The Saiko;34510914]Umm... We define medicine as something that works better at treating something than a placebo. So a Placebo can never be better than actual medicine.[/QUOTE] Didn't say anything about that. Just that for some things, it might be better to give them placebo than the actual medicine (again, anxiety and stress comes to mind).
Lapis Lauzli... seems familiar alot? On topic though,if people used it alot,it must have been worked,because they wouldn't use it.
alternative medicine should mean exercising to help with depression instead of taking pills, not the equivalent of astrology.
[QUOTE=st0rmforce;34494978]I would be in favour of it, if the quacks didn't sell it the way they do. The placebo effect [i]can[/i] actually make people better and it has no side-effects, so where's the harm? Well, the problem is that it gets in the way of real medicine. One extreme example is the fact that most alternative medicine practitioners, including homoeopaths are dead against vaccination and campaign against it. I remember somebody saying that he thinks we could have eradicated Measles by now if it wasn't for the efforts of Homoeopaths. Another problem is untrained people are pretending to know what they're talking about. It's fine if somebody comes in with something that isn't serious, they're given an empty pill and get better on their own. But if somebody comes in with something dangerous, the quack probably isn't going to know until the patient dies.[/QUOTE] The only time the Placebo effect would in any way be a substitute for actual medicine is if the so-called "illness" is psychiatric in origin, and not based upon an actual physiological disorder, trauma, or disease. [QUOTE=tyanet;34485362]I'll buy it, as long as there's reliable research to back it up.[/QUOTE] If there's enough reliable research to back it up, then it wouldn't be ALTERNATIVE medicine, would it?
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.
Some Herbs and things you find in a forest or deep in the Canadian bush-lands actually do have some pretty helpful effects. There's various medicinal salves you can make out of things such as tree gum and certain types of herbs. But that's for things like light-to-moderate cuts and minor ailments. It would likely never help you if you were ever diagnosed with something serious. As for homeopathy and charmstones and other "alternative medicines" you see "whistleblowers" preach all the damn time, it's all proven to be complete junk science.
There are a few things to keep in mind in this discussion, first is the potential medicinal uses of the placebo effect, second is to understand the state of mind people are in who try alternative medicine. Clinically, any positive effect occurs in the mind and is not physical. Where this gets interesting is in how the mind affects the body in that although it is simply a placebo, the subject actually feels effects from it. To make what I am saying more obvious, just because something does not have a physical effect does not mean it won't lead to a physical effect. People suffering from conversion disorder for instance will go into non-epileptic seizures because due to stress and anxiety. Though the disorder manifests physically, the method of solving it is through therapy (medications only provide short term aid). People who tend to believe in homeopathic medicine are typically quite invested in it, which completely magnifies the placebo effect. It is essential to understand that although the effectiveness of a placebo is all created within the mind, it doesn't at all imply that the positive results from that are bad or fake. To put it this way, imagine you were suffering from extreme stress. You've tried a number of medicinal treatments that have not worked. You then go out on a limb and try some homeopathic treatment and find that your stress is substantially lowered. You realize that it is all placebo, but it is a placebo that works, and a placebo that works far better than anything your doctor's given you. Should you continue taking it?
Hah, I didn't think Malachite or Lapis Lazuli were actually real. Shame on me I guess. Sorry to be off topic. As for home medicine, it's BS as most of you have said. It straight up doesn't work.
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