• Feminism and chivalry
    161 replies, posted
I notice there isn't a thread, so I thought I make one. I'm pretty sure Feminism was a good thing during the early 20th century, because, at that time, they seem pretty oppressed, seeing as how not having schools for them was pretty mainstream, and so was the 'stay in the kitchen'. Plus, they couldn't vote, which I could see why they would want more rights. But today's feminist just seems like they want superiority over men, and that men is not doing enough to them and that kind of crap. Sure, some people still make the 'Get me a sandwich' in modern day, but they are jokes. They just couldn't seem to take them seriously. I don't know about you guys, but I think its pretty dumb. Its sort of like treating 'women like queens'. In other words, helping women open the door and that kind of shit. Its even dumber when those ladies complain about how guys don't do those stuff for them. I'm pretty sure quite a number do this, but they are only doing this because they are doing it for some hot girl, even though they'll probably only get a simple compliment. But of course, there are still people doing it because they were bought up this way. And then there's the whole 'YOU CAN'T HIT THE PERSON CAUSE THE PERSON IS A LADY' kind of thing. What, so if she's charging at me with a knife I'm supposed to let her do it? If some girl is trying attack you for no reason you can't hit back? Its just another of the dumb 'ladies first' things. And not to forget, rape as well. I don't see how a some women thinks the men enjoys getting raped by a women, but when you change sexes its a horrible thing. And If some guy who is 18 years old have consensual sex with a 17 year old girl, the guy goes to jail because he 'raped' a underage girl. [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] And If a girl starts to sexually harass some guy, its okay for them, but when it goes the other way round, they go 'NOOOO ITS NOT OKAY', and the guy goes the cops over sexual harassment. The main problem is that modern feminism just wants to have even more rights. They want to be equal for both sexes, yet they are contradicting themselves.
if you believe that women should be able to vote, work at a job, and control when they have children, you are a feminist. Feminists are not exclusively nutjobs and radicals. There are some people that think radical feminists are "all lesbians" because they "hate men so much" or something of the sort. Also not included in the stereotypical list is ugly, butch, bitchy, prone to temper tantrums and mood swings, etc. There are more schools of feminism than I can name without having to spend an hour Googling and trying to get them all to agree on what feminism means is like trying to herd cats into a car wash. That said, all of the modern young ones I've encountered are for equal treatment and equal opportunity. There's practically no one wanting to establish a matriarchy, and even then, it used to be rare and often regarded as extremism. [B]The dictionary definition of feminism is "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men".[/B]
[QUOTE=shian;34476623]I notice there isn't a thread, so I thought I make one. I'm pretty sure Feminism was a good thing during the early 20th century, because, at that time, they seem pretty oppressed, seeing as how not having schools for them was pretty mainstream, and so was the 'stay in the kitchen'. Plus, they couldn't vote, which I could see why they would want more rights. But today's feminist just seems like they want superiority over men, and that men is not doing enough to them and that kind of crap. [/QUOTE] hi there. I've arrived to inform you, friend, that what you think are feminists are actually just caricatures of feminists who are played for laughs on shitty tv shows and in shitty jokes. if you take some time to actually read into modern feminism, I'm sure your mental image of them will change drastically. this thread on the something awful forms has a large amount of great info to help explain why A. your image of what a feminist is is currently wrong and B. why the fight for women's rights is not over yet. please, please, please, just take a few minutes out of your day to read it. [url]http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3452508[/url] [QUOTE=shian;34476623]Sure, some people still make the 'Get me a sandwich' in modern day, but they are jokes. They just couldn't seem to take them seriously. [/QUOTE] but they're jokes that rely upon sexism to work. [QUOTE=shian;34476623]And then there's the whole 'YOU CAN'T HIT THE PERSON CAUSE THE PERSON IS A LADY' kind of thing. What, so if she's charging at me with a knife I'm supposed to let her do it? If some girl is trying attack you for no reason you can't hit back? Its just another of the dumb 'ladies first' things.[/QUOTE] sexism [i]against[/i] women is responsible for this mentality though. the "you can't hit a women" thing is based on the >sexist< belief that women are weaker than men. [QUOTE=shian;34476623]And not to forget, rape as well. I don't see how a some women thinks the men enjoys getting raped by a women, but when you change sexes its a horrible thing. [/QUOTE] that's because male-on-female rape is a very big issue which directly affects many, many more people than the reverse. not because the reverse (female-on-male rape) is any less terrible, it's merely because fewer people have had personal experiences which would make making light of the subject of female-on-male rape taboo. [QUOTE=shian;34476623]And If some guy who is 18 years old have consensual sex with a 17 year old girl, the guy goes to jail because he 'raped' a underage girl.[/QUOTE] and a woman who does the reverse goes to jail too. women aren't exempt from statutory rape laws. [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=shian;34476623]And If a girl starts to sexually harass some guy, its okay for them, but when it goes the other way round, they go 'NOOOO ITS NOT OKAY', and the guy goes the cops over sexual harassment.[/QUOTE] maybe that's because women are more likely to be sexually victimized by men than the reverse? men sexually harassing women is more often treated as threatening because it more often [i]is[/i] [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] please, just check out the link and do a little reading so we can torpedo this thread before it goes bonkers and becomes the 55 page eternally cyclical clusterfuck that the thread on homosexuality is
heres a great video which opened me up to some new sides of it all. Really worth the watch. [video=youtube;vp8tToFv-bA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA[/video]
except "male disposability" can also be attributed to the patriarchy's view of women as the weaker sex: I.E. "male disposability" is one of the end-results of sexism against women; the view of women "needing to be protected" and thereby being exempt from, say, military service has it's roots in women being treated like property; the very first thing a man needed to "protect" his women from was other men seeking to displace him as the woman's sexual partner. just one of the ways that the patriarchy hurts men and women alike :eng101:
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;34476892]heres a great video which opened me up to some new sides of it all. Really worth the watch. [video=youtube;vp8tToFv-bA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA[/video][/QUOTE] Her intelligence makes her attractive and I respect her a lot.
[QUOTE=shian;34476623]And not to forget, rape as well. I don't see how a some women thinks the men enjoys getting raped by a women, but when you change sexes its a horrible thing. And If some guy who is 18 years old have consensual sex with a 17 year old girl, the guy goes to jail because he 'raped' a underage girl.[/QUOTE] That isn't how it works in most states. Usually there is a small grace period protecting couples crossing the age of consent by a few years.
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;34476892]heres a great video which opened me up to some new sides of it all. Really worth the watch. [video=youtube;vp8tToFv-bA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA[/video][/QUOTE] That is so, wow. Thank you. She's so smart :O
I don't like the idea of either Feminism or Masculinism, although both can be justified in a situation where the right's of the sexes are extremely unequal. That said, I prefer to take a stance that basically says "Both groups have problems, and should be looked at equally". Whilst women still do probably have a lot more to overcome than men, you shouldn't ignore the problems that men currently face.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34476741]words[/QUOTE] thank fuck a good poster turned up. basically listen to everything this guy has to say.
[QUOTE=shian;34476623]I don't know about you guys, but I think its pretty dumb. Its sort of like treating 'women like queens'. In other words, helping women open the door and that kind of shit.[/QUOTE] Well If you dont open doors for people then your just an arsehole, its common decency for you to hold a door open for someone whether they're a man or a women.
Speaking of gender equality I noticed that socially we separate genders more then we have to. WHy have womens tennis and mens tennis when they are both just as good at it. Why have girls track and boys track when studies show that there is virtually no difference in males and females running speed.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;34480290]Speaking of gender equality I noticed that socially we separate genders more then we have to. WHy have womens tennis and mens tennis when they are both just as good at it. Why have girls track and boys track when studies show that there is virtually no difference in males and females running speed.[/QUOTE] Because that simply is not true. For example: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres[/url] [quote]The current men's world record is 9.58 seconds, set by Jamaica's Usain Bolt, while American Florence Griffith-Joyner holds the women's world record of 10.49 seconds.[/quote]
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34480551]Because that simply is not true. For example: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres[/url][/QUOTE] You can't use world records for something like that. You would have to use average. Something like a world record could be due to more male runners or something else. Not to mention track is usually more then 100 meters and involves more stamina then simply muscle like a hundred meter would. In fact in Ultra Marathon Running women tend to do better then men on average.
There are many many different types of feminism that all greatly differ, which makes it extremely difficult to talk about feminism as a whole. There is of course some string that combines all of feminism together, but different groups have very different means and ends. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34476741]This thread on the something awful forms has a large amount of great info to help explain why A. your image of what a feminist is is currently wrong and B. why the fight for women's rights is not over yet. please, please, please, just take a few minutes out of your day to read it. [url]http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3452508[/url][/QUOTE] Some interesting stuff in there, but there really needs to be more of an explanation of the economics behind the wealth statistics. [url=http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html]The biggest issue is marriage and how the mother typically assumes responsibility for the child[/url]. For a while it has been the case that single unmarried women tend to make more than men. It mentions this in one of the statistics. I think I could agree with the social goals laid out in that link you posted. It is my belief that everyone should be treated as individuals. I'm a bit lost with the "surprise sex" bit though. The term and the description is really throwing me off.
[QUOTE=Pepin;34481061] I'm a bit lost with the "surprise sex" bit though. The term and the description is really throwing me off.[/QUOTE] That's the wordfilter on something awful for unregistered people. It turns the word 'rape' into 'surprise sex' amongst other things.
Pretty interesting video on payment differences between men and women, because I know that this will come up at some point. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow&feature=plcp&context=C3cf38e3UDOEgsToPDskI4Amx6jhmBaww9NjhsUSUZ[/media]
The definition of feminism can be interpreted in extremely many ways. In addition to that, there are several different kinds of feminism including more radical forms of it. My conclusion is that feminism is an extremely vague word and I find it ridiculous how people go around and say they are feminists instead of just saying that they are in favor of gender equality. It's basically something people often say because they believe it makes them smart and "modern".
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34480551]Because that simply is not true. For example: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres[/url][/QUOTE] The way we treat the sexes is different from the time they're born. Men are trained to be more athletic and aggressive from their birth. Studies show that coaches for women's teams tend to go softer on them. The fact that two fully grown people from the opposite sexes, who have had life-long sex-specific conditioning, scored differently on a world record, only shows how sexist we are.
[QUOTE=Patriarch;34482165]Pretty interesting video on payment differences between men and women, because I know that this will come up at some point. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow&feature=plcp&context=C3cf38e3UDOEgsToPDskI4Amx6jhmBaww9NjhsUSUZ[/media][/QUOTE] All of those problems are being caused by gender inequality.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34484119]All of those problems are being caused by gender inequality.[/QUOTE] I agree that men should take over/help with more household duty's and raising children, but you can't deny that vital parts of raising especially young children, women are far better suited for. There will always be some difference between men and women, as men can't give birth.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34484172]I agree that men should take over/help with more household duty's and raising children, but you can't deny that vital parts of raising especially young children, women are far better suited for. There will always be some difference between men and women, as men can't give birth.[/QUOTE] Yo please tell me exactly what elements that are somehow innate in them that make women better for raising kids.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34484172]I agree that men should take over/help with more household duty's and raising children, but you can't deny that vital parts of raising especially young children, women are far better suited for. There will always be some difference between men and women, as men can't give birth.[/QUOTE] Women are only better suited because society conditions them to be.
[QUOTE=Ziron;34484248]Yo please tell me exactly what elements that are somehow innate in them that make women better for raising kids.[/QUOTE] Breastfeeding for starters.
[QUOTE=Pepin;34481061] I think I could agree with the social goals laid out in that link you posted. It is my belief that everyone should be treated as individuals. I'm a bit lost with the "surprise sex" bit though. The term and the description is really throwing me off.[/QUOTE] what? that phrase doesn't appear anywhere in that link [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Patriarch;34482165]Pretty interesting video on payment differences between men and women, because I know that this will come up at some point. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow&feature=plcp&context=C3cf38e3UDOEgsToPDskI4Amx6jhmBaww9NjhsUSUZ[/media][/QUOTE] if by "interesting" you mean "myopic" then yes, you're right. this dude's completely oblivious to the fact that the "differences in the job choices men and women make" is still something that's attributable to sexism and prejudice.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34484508] if by "interesting" you mean "myopic" then yes, you're right. this dude's completely oblivious to the fact that the "differences in the job choices men and women make" is still something that's attributable to sexism and prejudice.[/QUOTE] To be fair on the video maker he does kind of mention that at the end
[QUOTE=RonPaul4ever;34483637]My conclusion is that feminism is an extremely vague word and I find it ridiculous how people go around and say they are feminists instead of just saying that they are in favor of gender equality.[/QUOTE] being a feminist and believing in gender equality are the same thing though. that's why people who believe in gender equality call themselves feminists. please please please, for the love of god just read the link i posted previously in this thread because it explains this shit. [QUOTE=RonPaul4ever;34483637] It's basically something people often say because they believe it makes them smart and "modern".[/QUOTE] no no no "they're just trying to be hip" is a dumb thing to say about anyone.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34484393]Breastfeeding for starters.[/QUOTE] Yes and that is literally the only thing, most women of which don't even do so it makes virtually no difference in regards to who is better at raising children.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34484572]To be fair on the video maker he does kind of mention that at the end[/QUOTE] yeah but that's certainly not the part that the people who go spreading that video around are paying attention to
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34484393]Breastfeeding for starters.[/QUOTE] It's not really "for starters" when that is literally the sole example [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34484508]what? that phrase doesn't appear anywhere in that link[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/9tkmw.png[/img] [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34484623]yeah but that's certainly not the part that the people who go spreading that video around are paying attention to[/QUOTE] just because they're completely oblivious doesn't mean he is though i agree that i too groaned when he kept going on about "choices" without immediately dealing with the fact that in some cases they're not really choices at all
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