• Feminism and chivalry
    161 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Simski;34594469]Either way you haven't read my other posts in this thread and is just targeting that specific one if you think I'm talking about all feminists, so I'm going to just ignore the rest of your post for now since I don't feel like reading your posts if you won't read mine.[/QUOTE] [quote]Eh, that's certainly not the message they send out. From having spent 3 years as a male minority of a class with 20 girls, 3 guys, and plenty of feminist teachers, it's a mere wonder that I managed to retain my view that women deserves more equal treatment. If what you're saying is true, they certainly not doing a very good job with education and the media to spread the message that they're not just focusing on women. [/quote] you're simply bailing out because i'm questioning you. if you aren't talking about all feminists, then why the objections to reading about feminism? [editline]7th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;34594512]Really though, you're ALWAYS insanely aggressive every time I see you argue something. Not just in this thread, but in other debate threads, and in the sensationalist headlines section. I generally don't like reading your posts due to how it feels like hanging out with the gestapo.[/QUOTE] How about you respond to what i say instead of whining.
Yes, herr Flick I don't like reading feminist literature, because everything feminism inspired I have read in my life has felt non-relatable and at times offensive. If you're talking about their whole organization agenda and things, I don't feel like reading those right now because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.
[QUOTE=Simski;34594595]I don't like reading feminist literature, because everything feminism inspired I have read in my life has felt non-relatable and at times offensive. If you're talking about their whole organization agenda and things, I don't feel like reading those right now because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.[/QUOTE] what have you read that was "feminist inspired"? and there is no feminist organization or agenda. just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay. my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about. it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't necessarily mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.
I think it is time to abolish feminists and praise humanists, which really seek equality between all people. Feminists generally tend to only want the fun stuff of being the stronger gender. They want the same money (which they already earn), and push their agenda further by complaining that there are too few women in the tech industry. Well, everybody can be what he/she wants if he/she is good enough. But where are the females who clean up the sewers? Or check the chimneys? I still have to see one female construction worker. Where is the equality in that? Hypocrites. You haven't earned the apples, if you didn't grow the tree. [editline]7th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34594656]what have you read that was "feminist inspired"? and there is no feminist organization or agenda. just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay. my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about. it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't necessarily mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.[/QUOTE] He is dismissing it because the feminists themselves have the wrong definition of feminism. And act accordingly.
actually women earn about 3/4th of what men earn for the same work. and that doesn't change the issue with sexual assault or how the media portrays women. i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias[/url]
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594656]what have you read that was "feminist inspired"?[/QUOTE] Nothing worth remembering apparently [QUOTE=thisispain;34594656]and there is no feminist organization or agenda.[/QUOTE] Eh, guess I just get a bit confused what with it being treated like a political stance [QUOTE=thisispain;34594656]just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.[/QUOTE] Porn is awesome. What are their opinions on gay porn? Is gay porn alright, or is that discriminative towards women? Is it perhaps discriminative towards men? Is it not discriminative towards men, but lesbian porn is? Is lesbian porn alright? Lol, porn is such a fun subject. I love porn. [QUOTE=thisispain;34594656]my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.[/QUOTE] My point is simply, if feminists want equality for women and men alike, they are doing a really fucking terrible job telling the world that they aren't just focusing on making women equal with benefits. [QUOTE=thisispain;34594656]it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.[/QUOTE] Politics make me sad. Organizations doing bad things in the name of good intentions. [editline]7th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34594778]i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias[/url][/QUOTE] Now you're just throwing around accusations.
[QUOTE=Simski;34594794] My point is simply, if feminists want equality for women and men alike, they are doing a really fucking terrible job telling the world that they aren't just focusing on making women equal with benefits[/QUOTE] the world's not gonna listen because the world does the exact same thing you did here, dismiss it and accept only your own stance on it as fact. i mean you utterly fail to see my point once again because: [quote]Porn is awesome. What are their opinions on gay porn?[/quote] didn't i just fucking say that feminism isn't an ideology or agenda? if you wanna know people's opinions on gay porn why don't you go read and find out.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594778]actually women earn about 3/4th of what men earn for the same work. and that doesn't change the issue with sexual assault or how the media portrays women. i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias[/url][/QUOTE] Actually, women earn about 98% of what men earn for the same work with the same function, education and experience.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594837]the world's not gonna listen because the world does the exact same thing you did here, dismiss it and accept only your own stance on it as fact. i mean you utterly fail to see my point once again because: didn't i just fucking say that feminism isn't an ideology or agenda? if you wanna know people's opinions on gay porn why don't you go read and find out.[/QUOTE] You didn't make your point clear. When I get confused, I interpret and discuss what I feel like.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34594860]Actually, women earn about 98% of what men earn for the same work with the same function.[/QUOTE] forgive me for being ethnocentric. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States[/url] and it's far worse outside of the west of course.
[QUOTE=Simski;34593988]I'd rather read the whole Twilight series.[/QUOTE] well if you're unwilling to actually take a few moments to learn about what you're talking about then you shouldn't be in here arguing go be willfully ignorant somewhere else
[QUOTE=Simski;34594915]You didn't make your point clear. When I get confused, I interpret and discuss what I feel like.[/QUOTE] i'll hold your hand through it next time.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34594945]well if you're unwilling to actually take a few moments to learn about what you're talking about then you shouldn't be in here arguing go be willfully ignorant somewhere else[/QUOTE] Mjeh, how about you and your gestapo friend go persecute some jews or something.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594933]forgive me for being ethnocentric. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States[/url] and it's far worse outside of the west of course.[/QUOTE] [quote]The statistic does not take into account differences in experience, skill, occupation, education or hours worked, as long as it qualifies as full-time work[/quote] I'm not saying that ^ difference doesn't come from a difference in how women are treated and brought up, but please read your own sources. And yes, I have read the line after that one.
[QUOTE=Simski;34594970]Eh, how about you and your gestapo friend go persecute some jews or something.[/QUOTE] easy for me i can just persecute myself. [editline]7th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;34594985]I'm not saying that ^ difference doesn't come from a difference in how women are treated and brought up, but please read your own sources. And yes, I have read the line after that one.[/QUOTE] well uh that's a pretty important line. i mean it doesn't diminish anything i said.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594986]easy for me i can just persecute myself.[/QUOTE] I would not put it above you.
[QUOTE=Simski;34595015]I would not put it above you.[/QUOTE] please PM me your dumb insults instead of cluttering up the thread with them. i got it, gestapo, you don't have to say it over and over again.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594986]easy for me i can just persecute myself. [editline]7th February 2012[/editline] well uh that's a pretty important line. i mean it doesn't diminish anything i said.[/QUOTE] All it says it that some part can't be explained, meaning that a far larger part CAN be, meaning that my 98% is a more likely percentage than your 75%.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34594778]actually women earn about 3/4th of what men earn for the same work. and that doesn't change the issue with sexual assault or how the media portrays women. i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias[/url][/QUOTE] Can you give me a percentage of how many women work as sewer cleaner? What about the garbage men? Have you ever seen a garbage woman? Why dont feminists complain because that job is sexist and that it needs more women? Besides, you are missing the point. [url]http://it-jobs.fins.com/Articles/SB130080246443096737/Women-Unplug-From-the-Tech-Industry[/url] Feminists want more women in male dominated industries. But what if more women just dont want to work there?
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34595076]All it says it that some part can't be explained, meaning that a far larger part CAN be, meaning that my 98% is a more likely percentage than your 75%.[/QUOTE] that's a complete stretch. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap[/url] that article goes into more detail.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34595060]please PM me your dumb insults instead of cluttering up the thread with them. i got it, gestapo, you don't have to say it over and over again.[/QUOTE] You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;34595112]Can you give me a percentage of how many women work as sewer cleaner? What about the garbage men? Have you ever seen a garbage woman? Why dont feminists complain because that job is sexist and that it needs more women? [/QUOTE] i don't know? i think that's something you should take up with the person complaining. [QUOTE=Impact1986;34595112]Feminists want more women in male dominated industries. [/QUOTE] feminists don't really want the same thing. [editline]7th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;34595148]You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.[/QUOTE] this thread isn't about my tendencies.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34595161]this thread isn't about my tendencies.[/QUOTE] It is when I'm forced to interact with them.
[QUOTE=Simski;34595220]It is when I'm forced to interact with them.[/QUOTE] yeah sorry for forcing you to post, my mistake.
[QUOTE=Simski;34595148]You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.[/QUOTE] it's the socratic method dogg. why should i insert new arguments when a. the internet has the answer to any question ever for anyone willing to look it up and b. ~the truth has been in ur heart all along~
[QUOTE=thisispain;34595127]that's a complete stretch. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap[/url] that article goes into more detail.[/QUOTE] All it does is show me that there is simply not enough research, or rather no research done right to determine the actual percentage. As in one country they determine it per yearly salary from "full-time" working people while full-time might not actually be full-time. And in another country per hourly salary, but taking the whole industry into account instead of per-sector. I still feel my percentage is closer to the truth (because of maternity leave, women choosing jobs in less-paying sectors etc) than yours is.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34595251]it's the socratic method dogg. why should i insert new arguments when a. the internet has the answer to any question ever for anyone willing to look it up and b. ~the truth has been in ur heart all along~[/QUOTE] I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned. [editline]8th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34595239]yeah sorry for forcing you to post, my mistake.[/QUOTE] Apology accepted, you're only human
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34595333]I still feel my percentage is closer to the truth (because of maternity leave, women choosing jobs in less-paying sectors etc) than yours is.[/QUOTE] maybe it's because i'm a pessimist and you're an optimist, hah
[QUOTE=Simski;34595350]I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.[/QUOTE] yeah but why? :smug:
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34595442]yeah but why? :smug:[/QUOTE] Because why not?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.