• Feminism and chivalry
    161 replies, posted
[QUOTE=thisispain;34595398]maybe it's because i'm a pessimist and you're an optimist, hah[/QUOTE] At the end it doesn't matter as women's career and educational choices (which have an effect on how much they make) are most probably heavily influenced by how society sees them. Which is the difference between mine and your percentage. (I think) I just feel like it comes more from an indirect discrimination which results in women choosing jobs that in comparison pay less than the jobs men are supposed to choose, than that it comes from direct discrimination.
ITT: White middle-class males thinking their opinions on feminism is far more important then them women. Also: All relationships must be organized around gender roles called "rocks and pussies" because hurr huh durr biotruths.
[QUOTE=Simski;34595350]I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.[/QUOTE] "i'm not going to bother to learn about what i'm ham-handedly discussing, instead i will rely on others and then tell them that they are wrong when they give me the facts"
I'm about as feminine as my girlfriend, if not more, and we have absolutely no problems. Come at me bro.
[QUOTE=DuncanFrost;34619416]"i'm not going to bother to learn about what i'm ham-handedly discussing, instead i will rely on others and then tell them that they are wrong when they give me the facts"[/QUOTE] "I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated". Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.
Whoever gets to the door first holds it open. This is how I always do it with my friends, male or female.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;34631901]Whoever gets to the door first holds it open. This is how I always do it with my friends, male or female.[/QUOTE] Indeed, that's just good manners.
[QUOTE=Simski;34631286]"I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated". Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.[/QUOTE] No you didn't. [QUOTE=Simski;34587024][B][U]I don't think I was misreading what they were saying.[/U] It's always "women are the victims, men are the culprits", "men have the advantage over women and are physically stronger, but women are more able and therefor stronger than men", "men do not have as much feelings as women and are a lot more insensitive", "men are obsessed with sex while girls like love", "domestic abuse from a man is a lot worse than from a woman because men are physically stronger". [/B]That's what people think feminism is about, and that's the message feminism in media sends out. It might not be the true purpose of it all, but it's the message people receive and that some people actually believe in. [B]People need to get over the idea that only a few people act this way. Good rational feminists working for actual equality and understanding the real message of feminism is fucking RARE.[/B] I have not come across many what so ever, it's not the kind of thing they debate about in the newspapers or the things they press on in politics. Feminism is a confused caricature of what it might once have been. [/QUOTE] You were not arguing that they have bad PR, and that resulted in what you now know was a false impression. You were arguing that feminists really were what the media taught you they were. If you're going to abandon what you said, at least acknowledge it.
[QUOTE=LCBADs;34633330]No you didn't. You were not arguing that they have bad PR, and that resulted in what you now know was a false impression. You were arguing that feminists really were what the media taught you they were. If you're going to abandon what you said, at least acknowledge it.[/QUOTE] I were arguing that they have bad PR and that they're doing doing a good job presenting themselves as anything different from what the media portrays them as. The below highlighted message is no less true because of the above statement, they are in no way contradictions. I'm saying that right now, the wackjobs far outnumber the sane people, or at least are better at making their voice heard.
[QUOTE=Simski;34631286]"I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".[/quote] Like six different people have already explained in great detail how wrong you are but since you're ignoring them I figured a more direct approach might work. [quote]Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.[/QUOTE] How can anybody be this thick? How do you think you learn about what feminist 'actions' are? Through the same media that is presenting them in a negative light.
[QUOTE=DuncanFrost;34633452]Like six different people have already explained in great detail how wrong you are but since you're ignoring them I figured a more direct approach might work.[/QUOTE] I don't feel what they're trying to explain is relevant to the subject. So it's not that I don't understand it, just that I'm not considering it a counter argument. [QUOTE=DuncanFrost;34633452]How can anybody be this thick? How do you think you learn about what feminist 'actions' are? Through the same media that is presenting them in a negative light.[/QUOTE] I'm taught by media and every feminist I meet. If I have to remove media and every feminist I've met, you get the rare amount I mentioned earlier.
[QUOTE=Simski;34633402]I were arguing that they have bad PR and that they're doing doing a good job presenting themselves as anything different from what the media portrays them as. The below highlighted message is no less true because of the above statement, they are in no way contradictions. I'm saying that right now, the wackjobs far outnumber the sane people, or at least are better at making their voice heard.[/QUOTE] You know Feminist isn't a person right? There is no overall PR for feminists because of how diverse feminism is. Which media are you even talking about?
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