• Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not?
    638 replies, posted
I had a bit of a discussion on reddit recently, where we debated this for quite some time. What are your thoughts about extraterrestrials being here on earth already? Why would people such as [B]Gordon Cooper[/B] (Mercury & Gemini Astronaut), [B]Edgar Mitchell[/B](6th man on moon), [B]Paul Hellyer[/B](former Canadian defence minister), [B]Baron Hill Norton[/B](Former British Chief of Defense Staff) and [B]Buzz Aldrin[/B](2nd man on moon) speak out about things like this if it wasn't true/real? Wouldn't they just risk being ridiculed? Better list of people can be found [B][/B][URL="http://spaceflare.com"]>>here<<[/URL][B][/B] (with videos / articles etc), Also official FBI files from fbi.gov relating to ufos / extraterrestrials. Don't kill me now :tinfoil:, I think it's a valid topic to dicuss. Also: National archives show Churchill ordered UFO-coverup [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10853905[/url] U.S. nuclear weapons have been compromised by Unidentified Aerial Objects [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/15/idUS166901+15-Sep-2010+PRN20100915[/url] Aliens "already exist on earth", Bulgarian scientists claim [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/bulgaria/6650677/Aliens-already-exist-on-earth-Bulgarian-scientists-claim.html[/url]
Anything is possible. The cosmos is so vast that it could have happened. We could just as easily be a race of aliens from a distant planet that came here millions of years ago only to lose sight of our origin. Sooooo... [img]http://tribalinsight.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/i-want-to-believe.jpg[/img]
Real? Yeah. Intelligent? Not very likely.
Patall, observing what appears to be your first post, with all due respect, how do I know your actually from this Earth, and not from some far away Council taking a survey to see if Earth would be accepting to extra-terrestrial presence? But in all seriousness, I kind of feel like some places that keep their mouths shut are hiding something, take the Apple corporation for example, and how their technical innovators seem to have shrunk stuff down in size a lot. The original ipod was real fat, but only had 1gb, then they kept on shrinking it in size, yet it grew internally, and with better quality. They did not teach me the names of those who came up with that engineering, and such a fast rate of engineering within a decade's time, really raised my suspicions of how some of this stuff has become a reality. I doubt everyone is who they say they are, they may look human, but maybe aren't. I have seen some real good fake human skin get made in the movie industry and what not, to know its not too hard to walk around as a fake human, where no one seems to notice you. Although, I really would like to know how these unexplained air-crafts go undetected to the radars, and can immediately jump from the ground and accelerate 0-60 seconds in the sky, and at such higher rates of speed.
Actually, I believe it to be rather impossible that intelligent extraterrestrials don't exist. They haven't come here though, simply because there isn't a good way to do so(energy requirements and propulsion, etc. This is another discussion) Here is my [highlight]support[/highlight]: [quote=Wikipedia]The Drake equation (sometimes called the Green Bank equation or the Green Bank Formula) is an equation used to estimate the number of detectable extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy. It is used in the fields of exobiology and the Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence (SETI). The equation was devised by Frank Drake, Emeritus Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz.[/quote] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation[/url] Check it. Not to mention the Universe is so vast and there are trillions among trillions of stars, thus making at least millions of planets in the universe with the same conditions as ours capable of producing life. And this is only CARBON based life. We have no idea what other kinds of life could exist out there. [editline]14th October 2011[/editline] Actually, I reread OP and it isn't really another discussion, it would fit perfectly. As far as we know it is impossible to travel faster than light(Yes I know neutrinos have, but as far as I know this hasn't be reproduced by another collider yet so we'll ignore it). The closest system(Alpha Centauri) is like 4.3 lightyears away and the planets in that system are incapable of supporting life as we know it. Why is this important? Because from our Sun, it takes LIGHT 4.3 years to get to. Light travels 4473 times faster than the fastest man made object ever created which is the Helios 2 space probe which reached a maximum velocity of around 150,000 mph. It takes massive amounts of energy to accelerate anything to near light speed. The only thing we've ever gotten to near light speed are particles. Space probes and shuttles are HUGE. Now we get to my point. The energy requirements and problems creating a vessel capable of near-light speed travel are INCREDIBLE. So not only would aliens need to have extreme methods for storing and utilizing energy for propulsion, but they would also have to wait hundreds of years to get anywhere near our planet. Not to mention, they might be an organism that couldn't survive in our atmosphere making their journey here pointless. Of course, there are wormholes. Well, wormholes are still only a theory, and it is theorized that opening a stable wormhole requires more energy then the entire planet produces in a year, and we still don't have any idea how to keep it open. Basically, the odds of any aliens finding us are [b]ASTRONOMICAL[/b]. Aside from needing extremely efficient energy storing capabilities and extraordinary propulsion systems, they would have to know where we were! The vastness of the Universe makes it improbable for any super intelligent race to stumble upon a planet upon trillions, and almost all signals mankind has ever generated and sent out is still hundreds of years away from any reasonable destination. If anyone can think of a counter-argument for this, PLEASE do so. It'd make my day; this is like my favorite thing to discuss.
All I know is, I myself, can not even afford a one way trip to space: [url]http://www.virgingalactic.com/[/url] That's the only commercial Space travel I know of. It must be nice to have the money to travel outside this Earth. When you consider the Economy of this Earth, I don't see any commercial space exchange any time soon, I mean sure, the rich just might take flight. Due to the nature of things on this planet, and politics, the only entrance extra-terrestrials have to this Earth is directly in front of the UN.
The universe is so vastly immense it makes you look short-sighted if you say there's no possibility of another life form out there somewhere. Theoretically there are infinite amounts of planets, there's bound to be some sort of life on one of them. Even if its some primitive bacteria or a civilization so advanced they would look like gods to us, if it happened on our rock it can happen on others. Are we going to meet them in our lifetime? No. The next generation? No. The one after that? No. It's not likely we will ever find any on our own for hundreds of more years. If we do have contact, it won't be us that found them.
[QUOTE=npx190;32788584]All I know is, I myself, can not even afford a one way trip to space: [url]http://www.virgingalactic.com/[/url] That's the only commercial Space travel I know of. It must be nice to have the money to travel outside this Earth. When you consider the Economy of this Earth, I don't see any commercial space exchange any time soon, I mean sure, the rich just might take flight. Due to the nature of things on this planet, and politics, the only entrance extra-terrestrials have to this Earth is directly in front of the UN.[/QUOTE] pretty sure this thing can't orbit [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] also first post pa taal? really?
I believe there is intelligent life somewhere. As large, vast, and almost infinite the universe is, I would be more surprised if the Earth had the only intelligent life on it. Have aliens been here? I'm not sure. Pictures of UFOs, alien spottings, it's all weird. It can't all be made up. Maybe they saw something but it wasn't an alien. There is no solid proof to really sway me so I say no, but all the eye witness accounts do say that there is a possibility that there is extraterrestrials somewhere on earth.
[QUOTE=BestBuyInBRICK;32788424] Actually, I reread OP and it isn't really another discussion, it would fit perfectly. As far as we know it is impossible to travel faster than light(Yes I know neutrinos have, but as far as I know this hasn't be reproduced by another collider yet so we'll ignore it). The closest system(Alpha Centauri) is like 4.3 lightyears away and the planets in that system are incapable of supporting life as we know it. Why is this important? Because from our Sun, it takes LIGHT 4.3 years to get to. Light travels 4473 times faster than the fastest man made object ever created which is the Helios 2 space probe which reached a maximum velocity of around 150,000 mph. It takes massive amounts of energy to accelerate anything to near light speed. The only thing we've ever gotten to near light speed are particles. Space probes and shuttles are HUGE. Now we get to my point. The energy requirements and problems creating a vessel capable of near-light speed travel are INCREDIBLE. So not only would aliens need to have extreme methods for storing and utilizing energy for propulsion, but they would also have to wait hundreds of years to get anywhere near our planet. Not to mention, they might be an organism that couldn't survive in our atmosphere making their journey here pointless. [/QUOTE] There are speculations of basically cheating the speed of light limit: see [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive[/URL]. Nothing says a more advanced civilization than us couldn't have come up with this form of FTL travel (not necessarily the Alcubierre drive). And if so I am pretty confident in that humanity will one day solve this issue too; there's no way to predict future technological advancements accurately. Think about it, people 500 years ago couldn't even begin to comprehend the technology we possess today - the same applies for us.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAUCr9OorXU[/media]
hasn't it been established that statistically there have to be aliens somewhere in the universe?
I think that we cannot possibly be the only intelligent life in the universe. Do i believe in aliens? yes. but i dont believe that they have visited Earth.
[QUOTE=npx190;32788323]Patall, observing what appears to be your first post, with all due respect, how do I know your actually from this Earth, and not from some far away Council taking a survey to see if Earth would be accepting to extra-terrestrial presence? But in all seriousness, I kind of feel like some places that keep their mouths shut are hiding something, take the Apple corporation for example, and how their technical innovators seem to have shrunk stuff down in size a lot. The original ipod was real fat, but only had 1gb, then they kept on shrinking it in size, yet it grew internally, and with better quality. They did not teach me the names of those who came up with that engineering, and such a fast rate of engineering within a decade's time, really raised my suspicions of how some of this stuff has become a reality. I doubt everyone is who they say they are, they may look human, but maybe aren't. I have seen some real good fake human skin get made in the movie industry and what not, to know its not too hard to walk around as a fake human, where no one seems to notice you. Although, I really would like to know how these unexplained air-crafts go undetected to the radars, and can immediately jump from the ground and accelerate 0-60 seconds in the sky, and at such higher rates of speed.[/QUOTE] ur mentally insane
[QUOTE=Virtanen;32793421]hasn't it been established that statistically there have to be aliens somewhere in the universe?[/QUOTE] Yes, the Drake Equation which I posted above. It's probably one of many, but it's the most well known. [QUOTE=DeEz;32791752]There are speculations of basically cheating the speed of light limit: see [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive[/URL]. Nothing says a more advanced civilization than us couldn't have come up with this form of FTL travel (not necessarily the Alcubierre drive). And if so I am pretty confident in that humanity will one day solve this issue too; there's no way to predict future technological advancements accurately. Think about it, people 500 years ago couldn't even begin to comprehend the technology we possess today - the same applies for us.[/QUOTE] They'd still have to have be able to find us(the hardest part), and they'd still have to have massive amounts of energy stored in a small area and devices to utilize it. Even with FTL, the universe is so spread apart it could still take years to get here. Now given, this argument is based off of our civilization, but it stands to reason that we're going to die out before we get technology this advanced. I mean there is always war, we're depending off of a non-renewable energy source with no viable programs to replace it, and no one ever gives scientists the budgets they need. From the evolution of a race to the creation of technology such as this, it should be expected that it would take thousands of years. So that significantly knocks down the number of intelligent extraterrestrials that we have from the Drake Equation that possess such technology. The Drake Equation only formulates the number of races capable of using technology to send something into space indicating their existence. So not only would a race have to be around for several thousand years to create this technology, they would have to also live on a planet that could meet the needs of a possibly huge race for thousands of years.
Other lifeforms? Definitely. Other sentient races? Very likely. Advanced civilisations capable of fast interstellar travel? Possible, but the chances aren't as high. Then again like DeEz said, there are probably undiscovered work-arounds and loopholes in physics that could potentially allow high-speed travel between star systems, like the space-warping Alcubierre drive, or generating a temporary zone of "safe-space" that gets folded up and punted through a higher dimension (like writing a letter then turning it into a paper airplane, throwing it across the classroom to be unfolded and read by that cute girl with the red hair), or even finding a way to warp spacetime and create a wormhole of sorts. If workarounds and loopholes exist, they'll be exploited by any civilisations that are capable and/or inclined to do so (overcrowding or the threat of their star going supernova would surely be enough to get asses moving). For all we know there could be freighters up there carrying spices and antimatter to distant stars. But the speed of travel probably wouldn't be "instantaneous" or even quick; even with wormholes it would probably take weeks of reality-warping to establish a stable corridor with an "ass-end" at the desired location. If anything, the current state of FTL for many races could be akin to the Age of Sail, with voyages taking many weeks or months to complete even with the most advanced drives. Another possibility is that maybe super-fast FTL is possible, but only in quick multi-lightyear jaunts that take hours, if not days, to charge up and/or cool down (an overheated warp-drive would probably explode violently), thus warranting countless interstellar "truck stops" scattered within a parsec or two of one-another, where many ships gather whilst their drives are prepping for another jump, with travellers grabbing supplies and/or personnel (a ship needs a crew) while they wait. Chains of these "stations" would stretch a fair distance, and probably be owned by major corporations or governments, although for cultures where the rich rule, perhaps they would be the same thing, maybe even sharing a name in their language. All in all, it's still possible but we probably just don't know how. But aliens are a definite, very likely indeed.
Somewhere in this unlimited universe? Yes. Visiting Earth? Nope.
[QUOTE=BestBuyInBRICK;32788424]Actually, I believe it to be rather impossible that intelligent extraterrestrials don't exist. They haven't come here though, simply because there isn't a good way to do so(energy requirements and propulsion, etc. This is another discussion) Here is my [highlight]support[/highlight]: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation[/url] Check it. [/QUOTE] Pretty much all of the variables in the drake equation are very rough guesses, it doesn't mean anything, you might as well roll a dice for a reliable answer to how common life is in the universe.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;32797964]Somewhere in this unlimited universe? Yes. Visiting Earth? Nope.[/QUOTE] Even if the chances of this world being spotted are slim, it makes sense for this planet to attract attention; it's got abundant life and water, and a pre-stellar developing civilisation to boot, not to mention all the radio chatter we used to broadcast which has probably garbled out into hard-to-hear static. And on that subject, for many civilisations maybe radio's an outdated medium of media, so outdated that no-one bothers scanning for radio signals anymore, instead using neutrino-based transmissions or even some sort of subspace ansible.
[QUOTE=Thoughtless;32798021]Pretty much all of the variables in the drake equation are very rough guesses, it doesn't mean anything, you might as well roll a dice for a reliable answer to how common life is in the universe.[/QUOTE] so? That doesn't fucking matter. The universe is expanding at a speed we aren't even capable of comprehending. There are billions of planets just like Earth that more than likely harbor life. It is next to impossible with the vastness of the Universe that another planet hasn't developed life.
[QUOTE=ironman17;32798137]Even if the chances of this world being spotted are slim, it makes sense for this planet to attract attention; it's got abundant life and water, and a pre-stellar developing civilisation to boot, not to mention all the radio chatter we used to broadcast which has probably garbled out into hard-to-hear static. And on that subject, for many civilisations maybe radio's an outdated medium of media, so outdated that no-one bothers scanning for radio signals anymore, instead using neutrino-based transmissions or even some sort of subspace ansible.[/QUOTE] Though this is obviously within the confines of human logic, it wouldn't make sense to not bother with radio signals as it would be relatively easy to spot a civilization like ours through that means.
Real but there is no proof that they visited us in any form. Not to mention why would a ufo have headlights on it? I mean aren't they trying to not be found?
Very strong probability that life exists elsewhere in the universe (Almost a certainty if you accept the Drake's Equation as fact), but visited Earth? That I sincerely doubt.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32799511]Real but there is no proof that they visited us in any form. Not to mention why would a ufo have headlights on it? I mean aren't they trying to not be found?[/QUOTE] whats your proof that there is no proof? heard of area 51 bro?
[QUOTE=sYnced;32799585] heard of area 51 bro?[/QUOTE] Yea wheres the proof in that broheim?
........ye man its impsibel becoooooooooooz if der wass aliens dey wudda already visited us n ting, u get me like they r waaay smrter than us cause humans generally arent, init rite so if they r smart then they wudda visit us and say hi or sumin but they aint!!! unless dey visit us n sekretly live on human planet.... fuuuck now i am confuzzzz
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32799846]Yea wheres the proof in that broheim?[/QUOTE] idk maybe the physical structure itself.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32799511]Real but there is no proof that they visited us in any form. Not to mention why would a ufo have headlights on it? I mean aren't they trying to not be found?[/QUOTE] so dey can se wer da fuck dey goin, init... dumb ashol [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This isn't how you post in Mass debate" - Swebonny))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Ploo;32799918]so dey can se wer da fuck dey goin, init... dumb ashol[/QUOTE] fucking stop it.
[QUOTE=sYnced;32799926]fucking stop it.[/QUOTE] huh??// =pp
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