• Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not?
    638 replies, posted
I think out of the trillions and trillions of planets, there is bound to be a handful of planets able to support life.
I believe Stephen Hawkings said that no unintelligent life is impossible as the universe is constantly expanding. For all we know there could be a as-smart-as us race out there a few systems away. [b]We don't know[/b]
It doesn't even have to be within our universe. As I recall they have some satellite that is trying to find multiverses or some shit. Plus over the course of time and space saying that no other life could be around but ours is superfluous.
trillions of stars and galaxies, I find it hard to believe we are the only inhabitants.
[QUOTE=JumJum;32870291]I don't mean to start a religious discussion, but I don't understand how some people could believe that the idea of God (that has not been proven) is ridiculous, but believe that life on other planets (that has not been proven) are a big possibility.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rad McCool;32872646]No no noo!! The size of the universe alone does not suffice for an argument! Please understand. Chance is not something you just guess because you have a hunch. That's not science..[/QUOTE] We've determined that life can arise from non living matter by abiogenesis, and determined that our planet is not the only planet with the chemical requirements to sustain life. That's already vastly more proof than we have for a God.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ylamA.jpg[/IMG] [img]http://ruinsmiley.tripod.com/RUINSMILEY_files/FIREdevil.gif[/img]
I don't believe Aliens are already on earth. I do believe Aliens exist. Stastics dictate that there has to be another planet like ours. Even if our planet is 0.000000001% of planets, there's easily more planets than can ever be counted (By our best calculations). Thus, common sense dictates that atleast one planet will be identical to ours. Thus, common sense dictates that atleast quite a few planets will host life. Thus, common sense dictates that one of those planets would probaly have intelligent life. Thus, there are probaly aliens in the universe. However, with the average planet being so inhospitable, the nearest planet with life is probaly too far for us to ever discover in our life-span, so if we meet aliens, they will have discovered us (And thus be vastly more intelligent). Scientists also suggest that if we do meet up with Aliens, the chances of being within 5000 years of each other technologically is nearly zero (0.00000000000000000001% or something like that). So don't get any ideas like "fighting the alien invaders" Instead of Guns vs Lasers, it'll be more like Sponges vs Nukes. In Short: The amount of universes out there are uncountable. The amount of planets in a universe is uncountable (Or galaxies, if you prefer?) Thus, we have variable P, representing the number of planets, and U, representing the number of universes. Scientists estimate the chance of a planet having intelligent life is just below 0.01% (Due to the rare circumstances regarding our evolution, if you believe in evolutionism) P * U / 10,000 Since P and U are higher than 10,000, we still have two uncountable numbers multiplying by each other. Thus, life is bound to exist somewhere. Now, the problem? There's still only 1 in 10,000 planets existing with intelligent life. The average planet can range from 30-400 million miles away from each other. We're still approximately 400,000,000,000 million miles away from the closest intelligent life, by average calculations. Enjoy! [sp]Then include the fact that with such large distances to cover, the chance of accidentally stumbling upon one of those extremely rare inhabited planets will be very low. Then the fact that the intelligent life will either be extremely primitive or extremely intelligent. Neither will likely speak in any form we can understand.[/sp]
I'm sorry man, but it seems you pulled all of those numbers from your ass. You present highly theoretical ideas as facts (multiple universes for example). And your maths and logic don't make much sense. I don't even know where to begin..
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33000702]I'm sorry man, but it seems you pulled all of those numbers from your ass. You present highly theoretical ideas as facts (multiple universes for example). And your maths and logic don't make much sense. I don't even know where to begin..[/QUOTE] [url]http://idahoptv.org/ntti/nttilessons/lessons2000/lau4.html[/url] [url]http://www.science20.com/news_releases/the_mathematical_probability_of_life_on_other_earth_like_planets[/url] I suppose I meant galaxies, not universes. Anyways, the current numbers we have for numbers of stars and number of galaxies are very rough estimates, at around 100-500 billion stars in the milky way system and around 400-500 billion galaxies. So, we have an uncountable number divided by 10,000 (Assuming the mathematical probability of life formulae is correct) and we still have a ridiculously high number that might not even have an assigned english variable name.
[QUOTE=Tukimoshi;33000856]...(Assuming the mathematical probability of life formulae is correct)... [/QUOTE] Which it totally doesn't have to be and there's nothing suggesting the real number is even close to that.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33000909]Which it totally doesn't have to be and there's nothing suggesting the real number is even close to that.[/QUOTE] "Scientists estimate" Most of our celestial knowledge is estimated based on knowledge. Again, the numbers are rough estimates and this entire thread is based on such, we don't have nearly enough knowledge to provide any solid facts. I don't see your point at this junction. You're saying the number doesn't have to be right, well, there doesn't have to be aliens either. We're all making estimates here based on what we know. Your argument can basically be used against any debate about aliens "But the number of planets" We don't know that, it could not be close to that "But the number of stars in the sky is uncountable" You don't know that, have you taken the time to count them? etc etc.
But my point is that [B]we cannot even estimate[/B] whether aliens are out there or not with our current knowledge of the emerging of life.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33001201]But my point is that [B]we cannot even estimate[/B] whether aliens are out there or not with our current knowledge of the emerging of life.[/QUOTE] Well, then that negates the point of this thread. What we do know is there is a fuckload of planets so the chance that one has life isn't actually that bad. Hence, the debate.
[QUOTE=Tukimoshi;33001929]What we do know is there is a fuckload of planets so the chance that one has life isn't actually that bad.[/QUOTE] Ok I give up.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33001973]Ok I give up.[/QUOTE] Well happy 3000nth post.
Nobody can tell whether we have been visited or not. There are Hundreds of Billions of individual solar systems in a galaxy (each of which perfectly capable of churning out live-habitable planets) or more, there may be trillions upon trillions of galaxies in the universe, judging from the fact that there is more beyond than what we can currently observe. It is difficult to think that were alone once you do the math. Take it this way: Imagine a desert planet the size of earth, the entire surface covered in sand dunes, imagine that 99.995% of the planets individual grains of sand is just your typical tan'ish color; the inhabitable planets, now imagine that the remaining 0.005% of the sand grains are blue, these are the planets harboring life, do the math and that's a [b]lot[/b] of planets with life. But lets take it a step further, imagine that 0.995% of those blue grains of sand only contain mediocre life such as bacteria, the remaining 0.005% of the rest of the blue grainlettes contain life that manages to evolve and prosper, perhaps into walking/thinking civilizations. That's a lot of zeroes followed by a 5, the end result though would STILL end up with a massive number of thinking sentient civilizations. The universe is massive, we'd have to do a lot of searching before we can find any other planet that we are certain can contain life. It's definitely out there. There may be beings who have had a head-start of millions or even billions of years to make their technology. Imagining humanity 5 years from now is difficult, a million years or more would be impossible for anyone to contemplate.
I have to agree with "Rad McCool" to some extent here. Has anyone read the wikipedia article on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake's_equation"]drake's equation[/URL]? It says the current estimates on the terms in drakes equation only suggest there to be 2.31 intelligent civilizations in our galaxy (including us) that are trying to communicate. And remember, these are just estimates. It's entirely possible that, from a pessimistic estimation, you could have only 0.000065 communicative civilizations. Or, from a optimistic perspective, [B]20,000[/B]. All I, and I believe Rad, are trying to say, is that given our current data, we can't really draw much of a conclusion at all. In addition, assuming the current expected value of communicative civilizations, 2.31, is correct, that's still only an expected value of 1.31 other communicative civilizations in our galaxy. I'm not sure about the probability distribution here, but I don't think there being an actual value of zero other communicative civilizations is that unlikely.
I find it impossible for extraterrestrial intelligent life to NOT exist! There are billions of star system in just a few galaxies, and it is quite likely to have at least a few planets in there capable of supporting life. If some planets have evolved to sentient, intelligent life, then there would be at least a few in a few billion. There are many galaxies we know of in our universe, and with the estimated size of the universe, there are far more than we could ever be able to consider. However, the odds of us contacting each other, as we can see, is minimal.
Consider this: Human beings have only existed for a tiny sliver of the history of earth's life forms. Mathematically speaking, if there are life forms out there more advanced than us, they're [B]much[/B] more advanced than us. Their technology would be like magic to us. They could pretty much do whatever they wanted. Now, interfering with us may have an array of consequences that they may foresee that we wouldn't. Also, if aliens come to earth, please don't attack them. They will win. It would be like a gorilla fighting a predator drone. [editline]30th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Recombobulator;33046112]I find it impossible for extraterrestrial intelligent life to NOT exist! There are billions of star system in just a few galaxies, and it is quite likely to have at least a few planets in there capable of supporting life. If some planets have evolved to sentient, intelligent life, then there would be at least a few in a few billion. There are many galaxies we know of in our universe, and with the estimated size of the universe, there are far more than we could ever be able to consider. However, the odds of us contacting each other, as we can see, is minimal.[/QUOTE] It's not impossible, it's just very mathematically unlikely! [editline]30th October 2011[/editline] If intelligent life wants us to notice them, we will; if they don't, we can't.
Extraterrestrial life exists, extraterrestrial life more intelligent than us also exists. You would be very thick to assume we're all alone in the universe, the odds of extraterrestrial life existing is astronomically large. It would be very unlikely that we've been visited by extraterrestrial life on Earth. Earth is just an average planet rotating around an average star. I find it unlikely that an alien species would decide to visit Earth. I find it even more unlikely that they would be seen by humans. Just skimming over the thread, but it seems that someone brought up the Drake equation. In my opinion it's an incredibly inaccurate measure of extraterrestrial civilizations. Most of the equation is just guessing. Most likely if an extraterrestrial civilization encountered us their technology would be much much more advanced then ours. If we we're to enter a conflict with them it would be like sponges vs nukes.
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;33048232]Extraterrestrial life exists, extraterrestrial life more intelligent than us also exists.[/QUOTE] Proof please.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33048291]Proof please.[/QUOTE] I can't give you proof, that's my own personal opinion. If you're asking for factual information then it's very unlikely that extraterrestrials do not exist.
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;33048310]I can't give you proof, that's my own personal opinion. If you're asking for factual information then it's very unlikely that extraterrestrials do not exist.[/QUOTE] Then don't say that something exists without including 'I like to think that'.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33048503]Then don't say that something exists without including 'I like to think that'.[/QUOTE]I sincerely hope people don't take everything I say to be 100% truthful even when I don't back them it with facts. Seeing as most people know that you can't prove extraterrestrial life exists (without coming into contact with them) I didn't feel that I need to introduce all my opinions with "I think".
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;33048690]I sincerely hope people don't take everything I say to be 100% truthful even when I don't back them it with facts. Seeing as most people know that you can't prove extraterrestrial life exists (without coming into contact with them) I didn't feel that I need to introduce all my opinions with "I think".[/QUOTE] I thought you implied you were stating fact as later on you write 'in my opinion', as if contrasting the rest of the post to be factual.
It's so astronomically probable that extraterrestrial life exists that it's almost a guarantee.
Probabilities don't dictate fact.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33049634]Probabilities don't dictate fact.[/QUOTE] Fact is, there are aliens. Us, for example. But whether there's an entire another civilization or a society of other intelligent fucks.. well that's just a lot less likely, seeing as how our practical and beautiful and complex bodies are a near miracle, the result of billions of years of evolution.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33049634]Probabilities don't dictate fact.[/QUOTE] Yea well there is probably going to be a sunset tomorrow but I wouldn't say you need to 100% prove it. Technically nothing can be 100% proven so don't think believing in something that is extremely likely is illogical.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;33062141]Technically nothing can be 100% proven so don't think believing in something that is extremely likely is illogical.[/QUOTE] 1 = 1
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