• Free will?
    290 replies, posted
Do you believe that we posses free will? Is it even possible? I don't think we do. Biochemistry determines how our brains work, and biochemistry is "ruled" by physics. There is no scientific reason to believe that our brains are capable of actually making something from nothing. The closest we come is quantum physics, and that's completely random.
That's possibly the first OP that I agree with.
you're thinking way too far into this
[QUOTE=ThePutty;33045441]you're thinking way too far into this[/QUOTE] Didn't have a choice.
It does exist even. Its like free radical particles.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;33045574]Didn't have a choice.[/QUOTE] well you just demonstrated free will by thinking about free will so yeah you've nullified this thread
[QUOTE=ThePutty;33045621]well you just demonstrated free will by thinking about free will so yeah you've nullified this thread[/QUOTE] Did you read the OP or are you shitposting on purpose?
[QUOTE=ThePutty;33045621]well you just demonstrated free will by thinking about free will so yeah you've nullified this thread[/QUOTE] His brain is wired to think about free will. He didnt freely think about it.
The best example that free will exists is subliminal messaging. If free will didn't exist and we followed things based on biochemestry then subliminal messaging would've worked, but to date it still fails.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;33045651]His brain is wired to think about free will. He didnt freely think about it.[/QUOTE] wow what kind of paranoia fueled bullshit is this
[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;33045670]The best example that free will exists is subliminal messaging. If free will didn't exist and we followed things based on biochemestry then subliminal messaging would've worked, but to date it still fails.[/QUOTE] Can you show me a definitive test that can support free will and deny lack of it?
[QUOTE=Jookia;33045734]Can you show me a definitive test that can support free will and deny lack of it?[/QUOTE] Can you show me otherwise? We're going into Psychology here so get ready for inconclusive data, lots of inferring and exceptions to rules.
[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;33045760]Can you show me otherwise? We're going into Psychology here so get ready for inconclusive data, lots of inferring and exceptions to rules.[/QUOTE] according to the op we're all wired to do this so obviously we're not going to get anywhere and the problem will never be solved i'm using my free will to leave this thread because it's horrible
[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;33045760]Can you show me otherwise? We're going into Psychology here so get ready for inconclusive data, lots of inferring and exceptions to rules.[/QUOTE] You're saying free will exists, I'm not making the claim.
I don't think brain chemistry has much to do with free will. It can't always explain or steer the decisions we make. I think our mind and conciousness is above the physical and chemical stuff in our brain. While I don't think anything that has happened could've happened differently, I think the course of events is only set on the exact moment of the event, not before.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33045782]You're saying free will exists, I'm not making the claim.[/QUOTE] IT isn't evidence but its an understanding of what Free Will exactly is. [url]http://171.67.193.20/entries/freewill/[/url] Its hard to test free will, just because we're ordered by scientific laws, that just means certain protein chains occur. Then there are more rules to how those chains interact with one another and pretty soon you can end up with an almost infinite or atleast very high number of different combinations.
Our brains are composed of molecules and sub atomic particles, that behave in predictable ways. Free will can't exist.
The only way you can posit the existence of free will in any meaningful way is by saying humans (or at least life) is somehow transcendent of physics which is a very hard position to maintain indeed. I guess it's possible to argue we have free will in some sense, but then you're just arguing semantics which is boring. [I]I[/I] still have the power to decide between A and B, in as much as [I]I[/I] am a part of the universe. Even though I necessarily follow one course of action regardless, I still have the power to follow whatever course is humanly possible, in much the same way as, say, a gun can fire rounds even if it never does.
While we do have free will hard-coded from birth, what you actually do with it is the free will. That is to say, that free-will is not predetermined. Hence why it is Free Will.
[QUOTE=macerator;33045884]Our brains are composed of molecules and sub atomic particles, that behave in predictable ways. Free will can't exist.[/QUOTE] The moment a molecule decays is unpredictable
Saw the post and thought of Rush. Anyway...We have the free will to do what we choose. Doesn't matter if this is obeying someone else or ourselves.
The people on the side of free will make the most ridiculous arguments. [QUOTE]well you just demonstrated free will by thinking about free will so yeah you've nullified this thread [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It does exist even. Its like free radical particles. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The best example that free will exists is subliminal messaging. If free will didn't exist and we followed things based on biochemestry then subliminal messaging would've worked, but to date it still fails. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]what kind of paranoia fueled bullshit is this [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Can you show me otherwise? [/QUOTE]
Thanks Eudoxia, I didn't know subliminal messaging had nothing to do with tricking us into buying certain products :v:
The subliminal messaging example is the second most derp post in this thread after ThePutty's "durp paranoia". I mean come the fuck on.
I don't think we do. It would be terrible if we found out for sure, but the truth is shit. The premise of not having free will, I think, goes something like this. If we can predict the motions of a single particle, and we extend that to everything, we can theoretically compute what will happen, and what has happened based on some math. Meaning the reason why we appear to have free will is because of the initial conditions in the Big Bang. Perhaps the reason why 9/11 happened is because of some particle not being several nanometers to the left. Chaos theory does a good job of explaining what this is. The whole calculating thing assumes no one is able to see the results, because then you can (presumably) decide to do the exactly opposite, changing the future. I think I have it down.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;33046453]The subliminal messaging example is the second most derp post in this thread after ThePutty's "durp paranoia". I mean come the fuck on.[/QUOTE] How is derp? The entire point of subliminal messaging is to implant suggestions into the mind using photo tricks and the like, effectively trying to control free will.
[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;33047310]The entire point of subliminal messaging is to implant suggestions into the mind using photo tricks and the like, effectively trying to control free will.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it doesn't work. What makes you think it would work if we didn't have free will, or that it doesn't work because we did?
[QUOTE=ThePutty;33045441]you're thinking way too far into this[/QUOTE] This is not a new argument.
You guys should read Stephen Hawking's "The Grand Design". Here's a part from chapter 2: [quote] Though we feel that we can choose what we do, our understanding of the molecular basis of biology shows that biological processes are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry and therefore are as determined as the orbits of the planets. [/quote] If anyone wants to read more of Hawking's explanation on the concept of "scientific determinism" I suggest getting the book, its a great read.
Study the bible, open your mind to God, and ask for forgiveness - that is the way to free will from temptation and bodily desires.
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