• No one lives forever... or do they? (About aging and dying)
    73 replies, posted
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32983384]Mind uploading is a bit shit, all you're really doing is making a copy of yourself. I want to live forever, not have a copy of me live forever.[/QUOTE] Ship of Theseus etc. [QUOTE]I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn't weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground twice in this century. "So it isn't the original building?" I had asked my Japanese guide. "But yes, of course it is," he insisted, rather surprised at my question. "But it's burnt down?" "Yes." "Twice." "Many times." "And rebuilt." "Of course. It is an important and historic building." "With completely new materials." "But of course. It was burnt down." "So how can it be the same building?" "It is always the same building." I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself.[/QUOTE]
Here's my two cents on the subject, ripped straight from the other Immortality thread: While I'd be all for immortality, there's the whole issue of time dialation, which means the longer you live, the faster time is perceived. Ever notice how time seems to go faster the older you get? By the time you're 18 you'll have perceived 50% of your life, imagine how fast a minute will pass if you're 3,000.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;32983605]Ship of Theseus etc.[/QUOTE] It's not quite the same though, a building is not concious, I would only go a long with mind uploading if they found out what exactly made us concious.
Over population is going to be a huge factor.
Aging can be said to be due to the build up of mutations in the DNA, causing more genes to be less and less functional. Our ability to replenish new cells falls behind the death rate of old cells and our bodies start to fall apart.
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32983730] By the time you're 18 you'll have perceived 50% of your life[/QUOTE] Is this true? If not, when is the average time where someone will have perceived half their life?
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;32983906]Aging can be said to be due to the build up of mutations in the DNA, causing more genes to be less and less functional. Our ability to replenish new cells falls behind the death rate of old cells and our bodies start to fall apart.[/QUOTE] Exactly, and if this could be solved, if the natural slowing down of the cell mitosis (Cells splitting to replenish) can be prevented so can aging. Huge contributions so far, I'm quite happy with this :) Anyway life is too short, if only people who care, who have intelligence and emotion, could live longer, this world could be turned around, we could all infact lead happy lives, no matter how long... we all make a difference, and some of us want to learn along the way, if life could be extended, the difference made could be greater, and more things could be learned. [editline]27th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32983730]Here's my two cents on the subject, ripped straight from the other Immortality thread: While I'd be all for immortality, there's the whole issue of time dialation, which means the longer you live, the faster time is perceived. Ever notice how time seems to go faster the older you get? By the time you're 18 you'll have perceived 50% of your life, imagine how fast a minute will pass if you're 3,000.[/QUOTE] Perception is just the way the creative mind understands things, if psycologically taught to be more logical in aspects of time, the perception of time could be controlled.
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32983730]Here's my two cents on the subject, ripped straight from the other Immortality thread: While I'd be all for immortality, there's the whole issue of time dialation, which means the longer you live, the faster time is perceived. Ever notice how time seems to go faster the older you get? By the time you're 18 you'll have perceived 50% of your life, imagine how fast a minute will pass if you're 3,000.[/QUOTE] What is this derp? Also extrapolation. "How fast a minute will pass if I was 3000" would depend entirely on my brain's processing capacity. It's not infinite.
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32983730]Here's my two cents on the subject, ripped straight from the other Immortality thread: While I'd be all for immortality, there's the whole issue of time dialation, which means the longer you live, the faster time is perceived. Ever notice how time seems to go faster the older you get? By the time you're 18 you'll have perceived 50% of your life, imagine how fast a minute will pass if you're 3,000.[/QUOTE] The effect will eventually be limited by physical laws, it can't continue past a certain point.
[QUOTE=Apollo2947;32982767]See, that's why I would want to stop time. To beat the inevitable. I can understand that. (I see you Derek_SM. Join us.)[/QUOTE] This is funny, because the moment you stop time, you can't put it back in place because you know.. it has stopped?
Something that is interesting however is how people has different views on how they would want to be immortal. Whether it be transhumanism, continued cell replacement or even changing time. But why do you you want to be immortal? To learn more? To make an impact on the world? So that you can see what happens next? Or is it that most of us are simply afraid of death? The unknown, be it an afterlife, reincarnation or nothing. We don't know, and are all scared to leave life as we know it. I think that dying would be fine anyway, if there's reincarnation, cool. If there's nothing, we won't know we're dead, so it doesn't matter. But for me I want to live longer, I want to make the most out of life, make a difference, find out the answers to my questions, the possibilities are truly endless....
[QUOTE=simonjb;32990152]Something that is interesting however is how people has different views on how they would want to be immortal. Whether it be transhumanism, continued cell replacement or even changing time. But why do you you want to be immortal? To learn more? To make an impact on the world? So that you can see what happens next? Or is it that most of us are simply afraid of death? The unknown, be it an afterlife, reincarnation or nothing. We don't know, and are all scared to leave life as we know it. I think that dying would be fine anyway, if there's reincarnation, cool. If there's nothing, we won't know we're dead, so it doesn't matter. But for me I want to live longer, I want to make the most out of life, make a difference, find out the answers to my questions, the possibilities are truly endless....[/QUOTE] Multiple reasons, I want to see technology continue to advance, give me more time to do things, to go against nature and because I feel that death is a waste of time.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32982508]Why do people always assume that immortality would involve me continuing to age?[/QUOTE] Your body would wear down more and more over time even if you don't age
[QUOTE=VaSTinY;32991115]Your body would wear down more and more over time even if you don't age[/QUOTE] Not if the cells replaced themselves properly.
Exactly, people are so fixed with the idea of things naturally wearing down and dying, but the only thing that causes the body to wear down is when the cell repair and replacement slows down. If you didn't age, your cells would constantly do this, same as when your young, like me at the moment, I don't scar easily because my body is constantly replacing tissue. Provided you get sleep, food and the correct humanly needs your body never has to wear down. And carcarcargo, I agree, the thought of dying just annoys me. I don't want to, I want to keep living, I want to make a difference, I want to have a good extended life and answer the questions I have. Again (requoting the lion king???) there is more to see than can ever be seen, and more to do than can ever be done...
I read somewhere that, as you get older, the perecentage of chance you will die increases. It's theorized that when you reach a certain percentage without dying, it resets - essentially making you unkillable. I don't know if it's true or not, but it's pretty interesting all the same.
[QUOTE=Cone;32992780]I read somewhere that, as you get older, the perecentage you will die increases. It's theorized that when you reach a certain percentage without dying, it resets - essentially making you unkillable. I don't know if it's true or not, but it's pretty interesting all the same.[/QUOTE] The longer you live, the more chance you have of dying because you've had more time to actually die. So if you live for hundreds of years your chances of dying will have been hugely increased, though medical science says that if you lived longer you might just become more resilient, and wiser, so your percentage might not increase at all. Logic depicts that what you said is false and complete BS. But why the f*** should we listen to logic? Scientific theories based on tiny amounts of evidence are as bad as blind faith in a religion.
[QUOTE=simonjb;32992962]The longer you live, the more chance you have of dying because you've had more time to actually die. So if you live for hundreds of years your chances of dying will have been hugely increased, though medical science says that if you lived longer you might just become more resilient, and wiser, so your percentage might not increase at all. Logic depicts that what you said is false and complete BS. But why the f*** should we listen to logic? Scientific theories based on tiny amounts of evidence are as bad as blind faith in a religion.[/QUOTE] Hey, I don't know if it's true or not and I personally don't believe it. It's some quantum computing shit or something, I just heard about it and thought it was an interesting theory. Sorry if that made you flip out.
I think it's completely selfish to stop future generations from entering this world by preserving your own (if you did introduce new generations, overpopulation would occur). Death is something that must be necessary for humans so that we may be content with our lives and truly admit to what we've done. Sure, some people may live on to do great things and others may do not-so-great things after the point where they "should have died" but it is death that brings us all back together, whatever path in life we choose to take.
[QUOTE=Cone;32993032]Hey, I don't know if it's true or not and I personally don't believe it. It's some quantum computing shit or something, I just heard about it and thought it was an interesting theory. Sorry if that made you flip out.[/QUOTE] No my friend, you are mistaken, I was not angry! I was being honest, I was merely stating that your statement might be right, it might be wrong.. thats the point :)
[QUOTE=HellSoldier;32995438]I think it's completely selfish to stop future generations from entering this world by preserving your own (if you did introduce new generations, overpopulation would occur). Death is something that must be necessary for humans so that we may be content with our lives and truly admit to what we've done. Sure, some people may live on to do great things and others may do not-so-great things after the point where they "should have died" but it is death that brings us all back together, whatever path in life we choose to take.[/QUOTE] I don't give a shit about the none existent future generation, I'm already alive so I should get priority over the possible people.
If we're talking about fiction on this subject, I highly recommend for anyone interested to see 'The Man from Earth' (2007): [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/[/url]. It is about a man who has lived for a couple of thousand of years, telling his friends for the first time what he has seen over the years.
[QUOTE=commander204;32989300]This is funny, because the moment you stop time, you can't put it back in place because you know.. it has stopped?[/QUOTE] Pause and play time. You know what I meant. :v:
[QUOTE=HellSoldier;32995438]I think it's completely selfish to stop future generations from entering this world by preserving your own (if you did introduce new generations, overpopulation would occur). Death is something that must be necessary for humans so that we may be content with our lives and truly admit to what we've done. Sure, some people may live on to do great things and others may do not-so-great things after the point where they "should have died" but it is death that brings us all back together, whatever path in life we choose to take.[/QUOTE] We are all selfish people, everything we do is for ourselves. But instead of everyone being immortal, I would only like to be immortal. I'd want to be a spectator of the world.
[QUOTE=commander204;32989300]This is funny, because the moment you stop time, you can't put it back in place because you know.. it has stopped?[/QUOTE] The current accepted theory (We have very minor proof of time-travel happening) is that the closer you approach the speed of light, the slower you age and the faster time appears to move around you (Think like the effect of you're having fun and times goes by really quickly). They tested this with two very precise very high-tech synchronized clocks with one on a space shuttle. They supposedly achieved actual results that show (beyond a reasonable doubt) that minor time travel took place. However, this theory also means that going backwards in time is not possible, only fowards. It also suggests that reasonably, we can only approach the speed of light, and never achieve it.
i think if you desire to sign up for immortality, you shouldn't be allowed to have children
We will be able to slow down the aging process or stop it However that would cause massive over-population of earth
[QUOTE=Derek_SM;32982884]Im not really afraid to die but I wouldnt mind living another few hundred years. Although I am totally against the idea of immortality.[/QUOTE] Being Half-Millenians wouldn't be too bad as long as we have a way to live outside the earth. But true immortality shouldn't be for anyone, we have a limit and we won't exceed that, for our next generations.
I agree that if you sign up for immortality you shouldn't be allowed to have children to prevent overpopulation.
[QUOTE=Speedhax;33000859]We are all selfish people, everything we do is for ourselves. But instead of everyone being immortal, I would only like to be immortal. I'd want to be a spectator of the world.[/QUOTE] I agree totally, if I were to ever realistically research and develop something to do that I would not let it into the hands of a government or the public, only a select few people with real morals, emotion and intelligence would be, then we could watch and learn and just see...
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.