• Do you think America is doomed, or that it hit a bump in it's progression as a nation?
    607 replies, posted
I think we're moving forward in some ways. I have some faith for humanity. I'm hoping our civilizations will start becoming more post-industrialized and we get our shit straightened. I think future succeeding generations are weaving out the idiots. But I may be wrong.
[QUOTE=Gmans Granny;33978876]Ron Paul knows his shite [video=youtube;Ao461iG9UsA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao461iG9UsA[/video] I think that The US should really re-think by the time of the next elections. I mean, the economy was great when Clinton was in charge and Bush shredded it to pieces. And when Obama was elected (and i do think he wanted to change stuff) he saw what a bad situation the US was in and had no clue what to do. Edit: As a matter of fact I don't think Obama was qualified at all for the position as president. And with the ongoing chinese military arming and Irans retarded swinging of dicks in the persian sea, the US could really need some change of parlament.[/QUOTE] Okay, for one that video cannot seem to get any more pretentious. For two, I find the fact that it associates foreign bases as a whole with the problems in Iraq or Afghanistan. Those affairs have caused nothing but horrific problems, but military bases as a 'thing' aren't causing death and destruction. What about the US bases in Germany or Japan? Are they killing civilians the same way they are in Afghanistan? But they are military bases, surely they must be operating above the law and torturing the local Germans and Japanese? Bad policy is bad policy, it doesn't hinge on the fact that there are military bases elsewhere. If you wish to come it from a 'cut the defense budget, it's ridiculously bloated' standpoint for these peaceful deployments, that's fine, but don't make the claim that all military bases bring death and destruction.
Let's see ... America has been running on pilfered WW2 wealth and petro dollar status. Boomers sold the factories to the Chinese and embraced globalism, so you built a service sector and set up a bunch of unfunded and poorly thought out (or robbed by politicians if you will) social programs. Now you are in massive amounts of debt, your intra-bank interest rates hover from .006%-.025% and have been this way for years. You have a low HDI. You have a massive income inequality. Your tax code is tens of thousands of pages and all the smart money has what little value they have nested in an offshore tax haven. You are facing social unrest and a massive depression with record youth unemployment. Your universities are massively overpriced and overpopulated with people that have no business being there. You don't produce much, you have a service sector that is being outsourced to India and China just like your Factories. What DO You do? Your R&D is even starting to suck, your infrastructure is horrid, lobbying is rampant, illegal immigration is pressuring your lower class, your standard of living is nothing special for a first world nation, you have a massive consumerism problem, you have MASSIVE state, federal public/private, personal debt problems. You have massive problems with a broken political system that is basically Binary Opposition theater. You have very few friends on the world stage since you started interfering with the Russian and especially Chinese sphere of influence. none of that means anything because you have over $708 trillion in outstanding OTC derivatives. SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHT TRILLION. we KNOW you can't stay the same, the question is how much will you have to change to be ... well .. worth anything, literally. Your
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33979131]Okay, for one that video cannot seem to get any more pretentious. For two, I find the fact that it associates foreign bases as a whole with the problems in Iraq or Afghanistan. Those affairs have caused nothing but horrific problems, but military bases as a 'thing' aren't causing death and destruction. What about the US bases in Germany or Japan? Are they killing civilians the same way they are in Afghanistan? But they are military bases, surely they must be operating above the law and torturing the local Germans and Japanese? Bad policy is bad policy, it doesn't hinge on the fact that there are military bases elsewhere. If you wish to come it from a 'cut the defense budget, it's ridiculously bloated' standpoint for these peaceful deployments, that's fine, but don't make the claim that all military bases bring death and destruction.[/QUOTE] I do see your point, i just picked the video for the ending message. About military bases not causing damages? I know that a base itself won't harm the population near it by beating them etc etc but it can inflict GREAT dangers indirectly. A good example of this is the construction of the ICBM defense system in Poland and near countries. The defense system is as in the name, made for defending. However it has been seen as a act of aggresion by Russia since this weakens their strategic advantage over Europe and the US. Furthermore this leads to a hot debate where Russia has openly said that further building of the base may force the Russians forces to destroy it. Watch with subtitles. [video=youtube;eBf0I-rB0m0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBf0I-rB0m0[/video] Another source [url]http://www.canada.com/news/Cold+chill+returns+with+Russia+threat+destroy+miss ile+shield/5754718/story.html[/url]
I don't think it is as doomed as it has just lost the top economic power. We still produce more(not production but money wise), have the strongest military, and one of the largest populations in the world. We have hit a bump, or just receded a little bit, no one is just going to dismantle the US.
Any US collapse probably will come as a surprise and end in a peaceful regime change and loosening of union ties. Not very different from the USSR.
USA is doomed as in it will either: become a police state and get its ass kicked hard by a superpower in the future. Will collapse into itself and become overshadowed by another superpower in the future.
I'm more than okay if the US fell from the world power. I don't really need an aggressive military force implanting themselves everywhere and pretentious douchebags that think America is the only country worth living in/existing. I'd like to live peacefully in an economically stable country, and don't get what the big deal about power is.
It's more about this... [video=youtube;zBSPcIGGcIc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBSPcIGGcIc[/video]
The infrastructure problem isn't as simple to solve as it seems. The amount of money and manpower that would need to be invested is massive, as the country is fucking huge. All of our infrastructure is at least 20 years old by this point (often older). And we didn't have the luxury of a war blowing it all up.
the way I see it, America is in a tight spot. From most standpoints this is not the worst the country has been, but in one key way this time it's different: people [I]believe[/I] the nation is doomed. People believe that either they have to rebel, or the country will descend into a police state. The true threat however is not some imaginary police state, but rather the people who insist that danger is real. If this nation is to fall, it will not be done by government corruption, but by paranoid vigilantes who believe they can set the United States on fire and cause it to rise from the ashes anew.
The problem with our nation is that we've gotten cozy and lazy in our political system. It's eventually gotten to the point that we lazed around like idiots until the system was crumbling down around us, at which point we finally decided to get off our ass. But, with all times that you sit down for a long span of time, your legs are wobbly and you might have trouble walking around. We've had our eyes closed for so long that we can't adjust to the light, and as a result are just blindly stumbling around for a short-term solution. Meanwhile our infrastructure gets a "D" grade internationally, our federal government doesn't seem to know a single thing about priorities when it comes to spending, and there are people in congress that are trying to hold values that were dead at least a century ago. So, in short, things are gonna get a lot worse before they get better.
On the bright side. If America really did go under i could always use that Canadian citizenship and go back to Canada, Thanks dad.
Assuming both continue raising at the current rate, we are to have debt reach 200% of GDP in 2037. That is much more than Greece today. (according to CBO: [url]http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/122xx/doc12212/2011_06_22_summary.pdf[/url]) 48.5% of Americans live by government assistence. (Wall Street Journal: [url]http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/05/nearly-half-of-households-receive-some-government-benefit/[/url]) 15.1% of Americans live in poverty. ([url]http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/income_wealth/cb11-157.html[/url]) And finally, 69% of Americans believe that America is in decline. [b]That is not sustainable, were in bad shape if we don't change something fast[/b]
Republicans dont like change though, so we're fucked.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;33963572]Your post was a great read. I wish more posts in here was like that. Very interesting picture of the concept carrier. But I'm always thinking that a superpower has the ability to project their power greatly over the whole globe. Right now China doesn't have that ability. But that's going to change for sure. And Soviet was a good example that I didn't think of.[/QUOTE] Military Force Projection is only one method of projecting your power across the globe. And probably the only one that China doesn't have sewn up. They're currently an economic superpower, if not THE economic superpower.
Our country has been through far worse things. I would call this a bump as well. The great depression, Vietnam war, Civil rights acts.
America is not falling, other countries are simply catching up fast
[QUOTE=cat man;34070955]America is not falling, other countries are simply catching up fast[/QUOTE] Explain the long-term difference between failing and what you just described.
You are an idiot if you think America is "in decline". Whether it be economically, politically, or socially, there have been FAR worse moments in our history. There is literally a recession every 15-20 years, and politics have been controlled by corporations and special interests since the beginning. This is nothing new. It just seems like it's the end of an era, and maybe it is, but EVERY generation thinks that "this will be the end!" yet things continue on.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34071871]You are an idiot if you think America is "in decline". Whether it be economically, politically, or socially, there have been FAR worse moments in our history. There is literally a recession every 15-20 years, and politics have been controlled by corporations and special interests since the beginning. This is nothing new. It just seems like it's the end of an era, and maybe it is, but EVERY generation thinks that "this will be the end!" yet things continue on.[/QUOTE] Actually the accepted average cycle for recessions is every 9 years, but every two recessions the second one is a lot worse (on average) so to you it might feel like 15-20. And your entire argument is exactly what is wrong with America, you are too stuck in your ways of "America is the best" to fathom that your country could be in decline. You easily have the potential to fix yourselves, you easily have the potential to remain as the #1 world super power just as long as you remember that your not invincible and that you gotta fucking innovate. Oh and ask ANY Russian in 1986 (5 years before the fall of the Soviet Union) if they expect the total collapse of the USSR in 5 years time, 99/100 will say no.
[QUOTE=wizard`;34072464]Actually the accepted average cycle for recessions is every 9 years, but every two recessions the second one is a lot worse (on average) so to you it might feel like 15-20. And your entire argument is exactly what is wrong with America, you are too stuck in your ways of "America is the best" to fathom that your country could be in decline. You easily have the potential to fix yourselves, you easily have the potential to remain as the #1 world super power just as long as you remember that your not invincible and that you gotta fucking innovate. Oh and ask ANY Russian in 1986 (5 years before the fall of the Soviet Union) if they expect the total collapse of the USSR in 5 years time, 99/100 will say no.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? I never claimed that America will remain as anything. I said it isn't "doomed" and that people only think it is because the current generation ALWAYS think that the world is "doomed".
America has only 2 parties? You'll need more to get some alternative policies.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;33930538]With current standings today, only 9% of American's polled said they supported Congress, which is a sad thing to ever hear about a government institution if you live in said country. So, we have a government which obviously seems corrupt, we have an extremely widening income gap, and our economy is so volatile it could bring depression to the world. So my question in short is, through your own opinion and facts, do you think our country is doomed, or are we seriously stressing out over small things while we're in a slow point? [url]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html[/url] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/21/opinion/obeidallah-congress-failure/index.html[/url] - source for the 9% reference. Herpes is more popular than Congress.[/QUOTE] This, ladies and gentlemen is what we refer to as historicism.
america survived the great depression fine and this doesnt come close
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;34075744]This, ladies and gentlemen is what we refer to as historicism.[/QUOTE] Do elaborate. What is historicism and why is this an example of it?
America has been through this before, tons of times. The Great Depression is a fine example, did America collapse? Nope, it got out of debt and got over the depression. Were basically in The Great Depression: Episode 2: Depression Strikes Back
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;34100715]Do elaborate. What is historicism and why is this an example of it?[/QUOTE] we view history through a subjective lens and imbue our own meanings on it
[QUOTE=NightmareXx;34100288]america survived the great depression fine and this doesnt come close[/QUOTE] Because they started worlds most largest infrastructure projects in the world.
I'll say it again: the country isn't doomed yet, but people insisting it is can eventually doom it if they don't drop the delusion.
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