• Do you think America is doomed, or that it hit a bump in it's progression as a nation?
    607 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34968747]Off the top of my head, [B]sexuality based equality[/B], as he mentioned, laws pertaining to corporations, there's the fact that basic financial regulatory law is a loophole ridden piece of shit, and current tax law is pathetic.[/QUOTE]Thanks for reminding me, that's another area we're miserably far behind, even countries like Malaysia and India have far more Women in the government and other areas than us. As the saying goes (a painfully true one), it's a free country, as long as you're a white straight christian male.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34968747]Off the top of my head, sexuality based equality, as he mentioned, laws pertaining to corporations, there's the fact that basic financial regulatory law is a loophole ridden piece of shit, and current tax law is pathetic. Uh, we were behind in our public transportation well before WWII, and, again, off the top of my head, there are longstanding unaddressed flaws in things that are not affected by population whatsoever, such as energy efficiency standards for buildings, which are simply unscientific and useless. Nah, I'm pretty sure he's just being vague, and you're just fishing for an easy zing while failing miserably.[/QUOTE] You and him both failed at understanding, so let me help you. With regards to public transport, the United States has a far more spread out population over a much wider area, thus making the cost of effective public transportation far higher than in Europe. Infrastructure in America services well over 300 million people as well, which means it's far superior in simple size and scope than anything any European countries have to deal with. This makes completely revamping it a several trillion dollar investment. We also didn't have the luxury of our entire infrastructure being bombed to oblivion forcing us to rebuild it to a more modern standard. It's not even close to a fair apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with Europe (Or Japan) being superior in this aspect. I'm not even going to touch the laws aspect because that's not a field of interest for me, so don't try to use it to "prove my ignorance".
Compared to the rest of the world, I think we're doing just fine. Nothing can last forever. Everything and everyone is inevitably doomed to fade into history and time. The question is not if but when. I am sure we'll be around for the next hundred years or so.
[QUOTE=ice445;34969170]You and him both failed at understanding, so let me help you. With regards to public transport, the United States has a far more spread out population over a much wider area, thus making the cost of effective public transportation far higher than in Europe. Infrastructure in America services well over 300 million people as well, which means it's far superior in simple size and scope than anything any European countries have to deal with. This makes completely revamping it a several trillion dollar investment. We also didn't have the luxury of our entire infrastructure being bombed to oblivion forcing us to rebuild it to a more modern standard. It's not even close to a fair apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with Europe (Or Japan) being superior in this aspect. [/QUOTE]Several trillion dollar investment? You're out of your mind, it's not even close, we can easily afford to fix up our infrastructure, especially around populated areas where it's the absolute worst, also over half the stuff modern European and Japanese infrastructure uses wasn't even a concept back when they were bombed, a lot of that stuff wasn't made until the 70's/80's, especially the trains. [QUOTE=ice445;34969170]I'm not even going to touch the laws aspect because that's not a field of interest for me, so don't try to use it to "prove my ignorance".[/QUOTE]Wooooooow, are you for real? So you're going to ask how we're behind, than when someone proves you wrong you try to claim our arguments are invalid because of your lack of interest? Congratulations you win the award for worst debater.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;34969814]Several trillion dollar investment? You're out of your mind, it's not even close, we can easily afford to fix up our infrastructure, especially around populated areas where it's the absolute worst, also over half the stuff modern European and Japanese infrastructure uses wasn't even a concept back when they were bombed, a lot of that stuff wasn't made until the 70's/80's, especially the trains. Wooooooow, are you for real? So you're going to ask how we're behind, than when someone proves you wrong you try to claim our arguments are invalid because of your lack of interest? Congratulations you win the award for worst debater.[/QUOTE] Your comprehension skills are really poor. First of all, you're wrong about the infrastructure being a cheap fix. You should do some research. Second, I wasn't proven wrong about anything. I merely asked how you thought we were "behind" in laws, and you gave some plausible points. So is that part of the discussion not concluded? I'm not going to try to debate something I know barely anything about. You shouldn't try either.
[QUOTE=ice445;34969170]You and him both failed at understanding, so let me help you. With regards to public transport, [B]the United States has a far more spread out population over a much wider area[/B], thus making the cost of effective public transportation far higher than in Europe. [/QUOTE] I wasn't aware we didn't have cities. I can't even address the rest of this post because it's awful. Do you know how public transportation works? No country tries to set up a rail service to every single farm and mountain town.
[QUOTE=ice445;34971125]Your comprehension skills are really poor. First of all, you're wrong about the infrastructure being a cheap fix. You should do some research. Second, I wasn't proven wrong about anything. I merely asked how you thought we were "behind" in laws, and you gave some plausible points. So is that part of the discussion not concluded? I'm not going to try to debate something I know barely anything about. You shouldn't try either.[/QUOTE]I didn't say it was going to be a cheap fix, you're the one with comprehension problems. Also, no, it is not going to cost several trillion dollars, it was obvious the second you said that you have no idea what you're talking about. The materials used to construct railways and roads is incredibly cheap and widely available, the people that would be building these things wouldn't be paid 100,000 a year salary's, and the only even remotely costly thing would be how long it would take, it wouldn't even come up to five hundred billion dollars.
It's because we're 'MERICA and we do things our way, and if you dont like it you can just GEEET Out and go to the socialist shithole that is Europe. [/joke] I don't really see anything wrong with america at the moment in my current scope of living.
The economy is good and unemployment is decreasing. I don't see the problem.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;34975962]The economy is good and unemployment is decreasing. I don't see the problem.[/QUOTE] Totally, because CNN reported that the economy is up by 2% and everything is A-OK!
[QUOTE=Atlascore;34975510]I didn't say it was going to be a cheap fix, you're the one with comprehension problems. Also, no, it is not going to cost several trillion dollars, it was obvious the second you said that you have no idea what you're talking about. The materials used to construct railways and roads is incredibly cheap and widely available, the people that would be building these things wouldn't be paid 100,000 a year salary's, and the only even remotely costly thing would be how long it would take, it wouldn't even come up to five hundred billion dollars.[/QUOTE] Keep rambling, you have no idea what you're going on about. As I said, do some research. Also, infrastructure as a whole includes far more than just roads and railways. Actually, let me help you. [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/infrastructure-urban-land-institute-2011-10[/url]. Keep in mind that estimate is on the low side simply due to the staggering amount of infrastructure that needs to be replaced. Our entire highway system was only designed to last 50 years, as were most bridges. [editline]3rd March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34975307]I wasn't aware we didn't have cities. I can't even address the rest of this post because it's awful. Do you know how public transportation works? No country tries to set up a rail service to every single farm and mountain town.[/QUOTE] You're amusing. Let's look at an average American city for a moment. You have the central core, where most of the businesses lie, and then you have the outer skirts which almost always includes several suburbs. The distances that an effective public transportation network would have to cover are immense. Couple that with the cheap price of fuel and there simply has never been a reason to heavily invest in public transport. You're an idiot if you really think I was talking about linking every town in existence with public transportation.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;34976448]Totally, because CNN reported that the economy is up by 2% and everything is A-OK![/QUOTE] My post was rash and badly worded. The economy isn't "good" but it's not "bad" and America is far from being "doomed as a nation."
Public transportation is down because the conservative republicans would rather cut taxes on wealthy bankers and destroy meager social programs. Most of them blame the low gas prices on the president for christ-sake.
[QUOTE=ice445;34978671]Keep rambling, you have no idea what you're going on about. As I said, do some research. Also, infrastructure as a whole includes far more than just roads and railways. Actually, let me help you. [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/infrastructure-urban-land-institute-2011-10[/url]. Keep in mind that estimate is on the low side simply due to the staggering amount of infrastructure that needs to be replaced. Our entire highway system was only designed to last 50 years, as were most bridges.[/QUOTE]Welp, I was wrong, I apologize.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;34975962]The economy is good and unemployment is decreasing. I don't see the problem.[/QUOTE] The economy is improving very slightly, I don't think that's "good" [editline]3rd March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;34979225]My post was rash and badly worded. The economy isn't "good" but it's not "bad" and America is far from being "doomed as a nation."[/QUOTE] The economy may be doing better, but America's deteriorating culture is running itself into the ground.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;34980122]Welp, I was wrong, I apologize.[/QUOTE] And I apologize for calling you ignorant in my first post. I just dislike seeing subjectivity with regards to topics like this. Keep in mind there is no doubt at all that we can and should improve our infrastructure and public transport to at least better mirror the more efficient systems in europe, but I don't think it can ever really be the same just because of the differences in population and how the cities were laid out.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34980311] The economy may be doing better, but America's deteriorating culture is running itself into the ground.[/QUOTE] Are you even American?
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34980311]The economy is improving very slightly, I don't think that's "good" [editline]3rd March 2012[/editline] The economy may be doing better, but America's deteriorating culture is running itself into the ground.[/QUOTE] Deteriorating culture? People's mindsets are improving, that much is clear. It's just that we're going a lot slower than everyone else. [editline]4th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Marbalo;34976448]Totally, because CNN reported that the economy is up by 2% and everything is A-OK![/QUOTE] It's improving. According to our past economic trend, it doesn't really have anywhere else to go but up at this point.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;34981442]Deteriorating culture? People's mindsets are improving, that much is clear. It's just that we're going a lot slower than everyone else.[/quote] For every step forward, America seems to take many back. [editline]4th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz76;34981368]Are you even American?[/QUOTE] I live in America at the second, but I'm not a native.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34981648]For every step forward, America seems to take many back. [editline]4th March 2012[/editline] I live in America at the second, but I'm not a native.[/QUOTE] Then you're just not paying attention. The difference now from what people thought decades ago is pretty phenomenal.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34981648]For every step forward, America seems to take many back. [/QUOTE] *Citation Needed*
[QUOTE=Pantz76;34982056]*Citation Needed*[/QUOTE] Yeah, American culture is fucking perfect, right?
[QUOTE=Megafan;33979131]Okay, for one that video cannot seem to get any more pretentious. For two, I find the fact that it associates foreign bases as a whole with the problems in Iraq or Afghanistan. Those affairs have caused nothing but horrific problems, but military bases as a 'thing' aren't causing death and destruction. What about the US bases in Germany or Japan? Are they killing civilians the same way they are in Afghanistan? But they are military bases, surely they must be operating above the law and torturing the local Germans and Japanese? Bad policy is bad policy, it doesn't hinge on the fact that there are military bases elsewhere. If you wish to come it from a 'cut the defense budget, it's ridiculously bloated' standpoint for these peaceful deployments, that's fine, but don't make the claim that all military bases bring death and destruction.[/QUOTE] Military bases themselves may not be the specific problem, I think relaying the problem to that is missing the point (although Japanese have complained over US military activity near one base as causing too much noise and also a helicopter crash that happened on a Japanese school nearby). Attributing the problem solely as a military base issue may not be the issue, but the jist of the issue lies upon the fact that enforcing a presence upon a mortal enemy's homeland will cause more problems than fix them. It could be argued that it was our mortal enemy that struck first (9/11), but as Ron Paul points out: our presence and influence in foreign countries have not done us favors in the past. While as immature and pre-emptive the terrorists were to attack us, their anger and frustrations have a root in our foreign influence (aiding dictators for economic gain in the name of world democracy). I'm also sure there are many of us that already foster hate and fear from China's incline.
Calm down cowboy... [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34981648]For every step forward, America seems to take many back.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34983004]Yeah, American culture is fucking perfect, right?[/QUOTE] Notice, there is a difference between disagreeing with your first statement and saying American culture is perfect. Lets take a deep breath and take it easy now...
Are you going to actually make a valid point, or assume because I said fucking, I'm some now fuming with incomprehensible rage (Which is a pretty stupid conclusion mind you.) Here, let me use your tactics to determine you. hmm, okay, I see you ended your sentence with an ellipse, well, that means you're a rapist [editline]4th March 2012[/editline] Yeah doesn't make any sense, now does it? You should try that whole 'thinking' thing, it really works well.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34986685]Are you going to actually make a valid point, or assume because I said fucking, I'm some now fuming with incomprehensible rage (Which is a pretty stupid conclusion mind you.) Here, let me use your tactics to determine you. hmm, okay, I see you ended your sentence with an ellipse, well, that means you're a rapist [editline]4th March 2012[/editline] Yeah doesn't make any sense, now does it? You should try that whole 'thinking' thing, it really works well.[/QUOTE] His point is that you were trying to strawman. Just because someone disagreed with that statement doesn't in any way give any clues to their actual opinion (or anything for that matter).
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34986685]Are you going to actually make a valid point, or assume because I said fucking, I'm some now fuming with incomprehensible rage (Which is a pretty stupid conclusion mind you.) Here, let me use your tactics to determine you. hmm, okay, I see you ended your sentence with an ellipse, well, that means you're a rapist [editline]4th March 2012[/editline] Yeah doesn't make any sense, now does it? You should try that whole 'thinking' thing, it really works well.[/QUOTE] Now you're just being hostile. We're just having a discussion ok? Why are you being condescending? Why can't you be nice to me?
Because you're making dumb assertions instead of making valid arguments?
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34983004]Yeah, American culture is fucking perfect, right?[/QUOTE] yeah good job instead of arguing your initial claim attack the other extreme talk about making a valid point huh
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34988321]Because you're making dumb assertions instead of making valid arguments?[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean you have to get angry. We are simply having a discussion. We are all learning here, you don't have to be condescending even if I am being "dumb".
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