• Ghosts and the paranormal
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35552399]Do you have examples of incidents which has baffled scientists?[/QUOTE] No, he probably has examples of incidents which have baffled him, and he was too lazy to think it through so he went with flying invisible people as the best explanation.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35552399]Do you have examples of incidents which has baffled scientists?[/QUOTE] As a matter of fact I do. Arimgat, Argentina. Something about a swing set that moves on its own without wind present. Apparently many people witnessed it and even recorded it swinging for a whole 10 days. That one is what caught my eye the most. The rest I did some research and it came up balony. Like I thought it was going tone. Go check out the ghost swingset one. [editline]13th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;35553143]No, he probably has examples of incidents which have baffled him, and he was too lazy to think it through so he went with flying invisible people as the best explanation.[/QUOTE] Haha, that's how most ghost reports are to be honest. I do not 100% believe in them but I'm not going to just say its fake and it's 100% wrong. There are some things in this world we have not even begin to grasp at yet. Edit: after researching for about a hour science has yet again disproved ghosts. I stand corrected. Oh well. I feel stupid now. I now will commence jumping off a bridge :suicide:
To be honest, the sense that I have that I trust the least is the sense of touch. It's the most predisposed to being vulnerable to suggestion. If I felt a "presence," it would set off a huge red flag in my mind that I am either experiencing a hallucination or some other form of impaired consciousness.
[QUOTE=halflife_123;35493601]I don't get it, you had stuff piled up in your room and it made you cry? Why did you cry?[/QUOTE] I'm about a week late, but I know what he's talking about. It's a 'common' phenomena in popular ghost stories where various loose items from around the room ranging from small books to chairs mysteriously end up stacked neatly in the center of the room. He says he woke up and saw his belongings stacked in the middle of the room, and started crying because this inexplicable event terrified him. Example of stacking chairs: [img]http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/Goqn-oAyb9s/hqdefault.jpg[/img] Book version made famous by The Ghostbusters: [img]http://jerome23.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/book.png[/img]
Sometimes when i see something in the corner of my eye and think 'was that a ghost?' i just discard it and think no because the proof isn't strong enough and can rationalise that it was me turning around to quickly. But when people tell me of ghosts they've seen i wonder if they do the same thing as me but instead of discard it they believe.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently and I do think that sometimes people do just 'see' things, the same way we make out patterns in clouds or how we can see a word in a sentence then you look back and you realise its a slightly different word (I'm not sure what this is called). However if someone you trust tells you they've seen a ghost and not just an anomaly in the corner of their eye, like a real encounter how are you meant to take that? You can't just put it down to a hallucination every time someone has a story about a ghost encounter but at the same time the idea of spirits walking around goes against what we know about life and the universe.
[QUOTE=Derpmonster;35558751]As a matter of fact I do. Arimgat, Argentina. Something about a swing set that moves on its own without wind present. Apparently many people witnessed it and even recorded it swinging for a whole 10 days. That one is what caught my eye the most. The rest I did some research and it came up balony. Like I thought it was going tone. Go check out the ghost swingset one.[/QUOTE] it's [B]Firmat[/B], Argentina [quote=Wiki]In June 2007, a swing in a children's playground was reported to the police after locals had discovered that it would move backwards and forwards non-stop on its own for ten days before stopping dead, while other swings would remain still. The police, who couldn't conclude an explanation called physics professors into Firmat, Argentina. But by October that year, even scientists were "baffled" and could not offer a logical explanation.[2] Parents and children were convinced that a ghost was to blame. According to a teacher: [B]“One child called it the Blair Witch Playground. We believe it is haunted.” [3] Parents decided that the playground must indeed be haunted.[/B][4] On an April 13, 2011 episode of the Syfy Channel show, Fact or Faked: Paranormal Files, the crew went to Firmat to investigate the haunted swing. They were able to recreate the movement of the swing with a monofilament, but determined that it was not a viable hoax. Ultimately, after covering the swing with an inflatable dome and performing simulated wind tests, they determined that wind was the likely culprit coupled with the fact that the haunted swing was slightly larger than the other swings and had more surface area to catch the wind.[/quote] basically this is the root of all supernatural claims. I can't explain it off the top of my head, so it must be god/ghosts/whatever I hate that fucking crap very legit story btw 10/10 as for the thread topic in general: I have no reason to believe in anything paranormal, so I don't. Things fall under the paranormal/supernatural blanket precisely because they require irrational belief based on emotion (or stupidity) rather than fact
There are no such things as ghosts, or spirits, or paranormal poltergeists or whatever. The human brain has an extreme propensity for [I]making shit up.[/I] Psychologically, we have evolved to HATE the act of [I]not knowing[/I] something. We hate the dark because we don't know what's in it, if anything. We hate seeing closed doors and shuttered windows because we don't know what's behind them. We hate seeing a rustling bush because we don't know if it's a bird or a chupacabra. Thus, the human brain faces a constant sense of cognitive dissonance when we WANT to know something but CAN'T. Regularly, to cope with the dissonance between information known and information unknown, the brain will actively speculate and attempt to fill in the blanks of the equation, typically in a "worst-case scenario" fashion. I'm not talking about conscious speculation, either, I'm talking about speculation as in "the part of your brain that processes visual information makes some shit up before sending it up to the conscious brain." This is a survival mechanism. Even if there's a one in one hundred chance that whatever is rustling in that bush is dangerous, the motherfucker who assumes it is despite all reason and rationale was the fucker who didn't get ate. This function of the human psyche gave birth to religion, spirituality, and general supernatural mythology. We are hard-wired to have an extreme desire to know things and to make shit up in our own heads when we can't. You see this phenomenon at work a lot in scientific circles, particularly historical scientists (Newton, for instance,) who turn to religion and supernaturalism when they reach the limits of their knowledge and simply do not have the tools or the means to learn more things legitimately. Additionally, human perceptions are extremely faulty. The human forebrain, to conserve energy, often gets "bored," so to speak, when it is presented with static, mundane information. For instance, a recent study (don't have a link, but google it) showed that a majority of human test subjects who were told to look at themselves in a mirror non-stop for long periods of time would eventually report that their own faces morphed, or were replaced by monstrous, inhuman figures. This is because, as the brain stops processing repetitious visual information, it starts making assumptions about what it *should* be seeing rather than actively processing sensory information. The brain is not very good at making assumptions, suffice to say. So, when you see something out of the corner of your eye, or immediately think "ghosts!" when something seems off, your brain is quite simply fucking with you. The "see it to believe it" logic is faulty considering our senses are so completely inept at actually giving us accurate information that we had to invent scientific tools just to compensate with our tendency to make shit up--scientific tools that have, thus far, returned negative results toward supernatural hypotheses 100% of the time. Your instincts function to help you survive, not to help you understand. If you think you see a ghost and you run, you will certainly survive to tell the tale. That does not mean your instinct is trustworthy in that regard. You can trust your brain to keep you alive, not to tell you the truth.
ghosts dont exist cuz they dont exist.. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating." - Megafan))[/highlight]
One time I was at this university tour, the tour guide, she said the top of the old library was locked, because it was haunted. No one on the tour said anything, like this was normal. Another school, but an accademy, again it was established as haunted in the actic, and no one was to go up there. The thing for awhile was people claimed to hear children up at that top, but then it turned out there was never anyone up there, and that area was locked. The problem was the angry contractor's who had to redo the roof, thought they heard something, but there was nothing. Private accademy with a fence, you really should not tresspass to an area that says keep out anyway. I am curious, but at the same time do not want to know, but personally, just because you hear noise thru an air vent, does not mean it's actually two floors below, instead of the one vaccated area. I think the most controversial thing was when I heard yet another school, I don't know the details of what was said that made it haunted, but I heard that it was the reason it had to be demolished by the city. I don't see many taking so kindly from a taxpayer perspective, their dollars had to be used to resolve something haunted. That said, just because something gets known as haunted, does not mean you have to believe it, it just does not change the fact about the situation, after so many expereince something they can't explain. One example I should share was about a cemetary. Various people had gotten to a point about mentioning a glow on an individual's site, but what eventually was resolved, was that after the streetlights on a bridge near-by were replaced, everytime a car were to go over the bridge, is what explained the lighting that appeared to come from the cemetary. Without knowing that traffic jam on the bridge is what stopped the street lights from making reflection upon one or more head stones, where there were no tree leaves to block the light otherwise, my thought are others, especially not native to the area, recgonize this situation as maybe, paranormal, maybe more, when there is wind, shifting the light and shadow around. However, it is also said, that the same site, if you walk in with infared vision, there are supposedly some moving shadows visible only with the infared, that can not be explained. I don't tend to find out, but I don't see what that would solve anyway. There is also this gem stone mine I went in one time, like everything else, the mine is old, and some had parished, back in the days, when that was allowed. However, the guy working alone down there, said he did not feel it was haunted, and this is 3000 feet under the Earth, and basically in the dark.
[QUOTE=npx190;35641690]The problem was the angry contractor's who had to redo the roof, thought they heard something, but there was nothing.[/QUOTE] Contractors always have the shittiest job in ghost stories. "Yeah just go up there all by yourself and starting changing shit around and making a lot of noise."
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;35643090]Contractors always have the shittiest job in ghost stories. "Yeah just go up there all by yourself and starting changing shit around and making a lot of noise."[/QUOTE] I did some oddjobs for a pest control company right out of highschool, and those fuckers always sent me into the crawlspace. I recall driving out to this one old, rickety 1-story with no basement. Had a crawlspace of maybe two feet, small enough that I had to shimmy like a motherfucker. Owner of the house was talking about how they had a "friendly ghost" living there, and we were all patronizing and shit like "wow, yeah, that's REALLY cool," rolling our eyes and and making vulgar expressions every time the dude looked away. And then, of course, motherfucker says he's got termites. And guess who got to go into the dark fucking hole with a gun that shoots deadly poison. I saw so much shit. There were spiders fighting rats over raccoon carcasses, there was like an entire, strange, animal fantasy society down there. It was dark, but I'm pretty sure I got into a fistfight with a rat-king. By the time I was done I'd been bitten by eight different things and I had to go get a preventative rabies shot. And what do my esteemed colleagues ask me when I escaped the murder hole? "Did you see any ghosts?" they asked, "bet that would have been scary!" they said. What I've seen, ghosts are the least of my problems.
I remember having a dream where I was talking to a ghost, and then she was all like "Hey, watch this, I'm so powerful" and I woke up. And then all the power in the house went off and came back on, which makes our oven clock start beeping like crazy. And I crapped my pants. Ghostgirl was pretty hot before you ask.
i don't know what to think of ghosts. people like to believe in them, so do i i guess. but they are nowhere to be inspected. the closest thing to a ghost would be a pale, long-gone, lost-soul crack addict.
Being a lucid dreamer (becoming aware you're dreaming while asleep) I have first-hand awareness of the shear power of the mind to create illusions. For those of you who aren't aware please look up Sleep Paralysis, it's a function of sleep that as you can guess paralyses us so we don't conduct our dream, as believe it or not while we sleep our mind is using all the identical bodily and neural functions required to move our muscles, in otherwords moving your hand in the dream is actually your real hand moving, just under a sheet of paralysis. The reason I talk about this is because one can potentially stay awake during Sleep Paralysis at the period where a dream begins to form, in fact this is part of a lucid dreaming technique known as W.I.L.D where you enter a dream fully conscious (i.e all memories and thoughts in tact) in this technique dreams can BE REAL, and by REAL I mean look and feel REAL they're almost indistinguishable. I'm going to go of on a tangent and say that philosophically speaking dreams are more real then reality anyway, and I say this because during R.E.M sleep where dreaming occurs the mind is more active then at any stage of waking life, which is often why REM is referred to as paradoxical sleep (the contradiction of being most awake when at a stage of sleep). Though this is all dependent on ones definition of what constitutes reality, but for all it's worth dreams are constructed using a lot of the same mental processes used while awake, and to our minds (maybe not to our conscious self if you're lucid) they're real. Not to mention during Sleep Paralysis you can experience hallucinations in your room, for instance I've seen shadowy figures in my room, full blown hallucinations manifesting right in my bedroom because my mind is falling asleep, although these experiences and hallucinations are purely driven by expectation, if you didn't know what Sleep Paralysis was and you immediately thought for instance "Oh shit ghosts" your mind would manifests ghosts, and they would perhaps hold you down. Even more interesting is the idea that this might explain the abundance of Alien Abduction stories. Specifically because most people note in Alien Abductions that they were strapped to a table Unable to move, sound like anything? It seems likely these people awoke from sleep, and immediately inferred out of ignorance that they were abducted and then the mind followed through with this hallucination. You should read up on the explanations people had for these occurrence at night before they knew what SP was, they used to think demons were holding you down or something. Crazy right. So whenever I hear ghosts and crap I'm already aware that if there was such occurrences there would be heaps of evidence, rather then all this anecdotal bullshit, OH I HAD A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE GUYS, what the hell does that even mean. No the mind is more powerful then the average person is aware of currently.
I seen alot of ghosts when i was little.
Shouldn't ghosts be stuck at the centre of the Earth, gravity? [editline]5th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Derpmonster;35558751]As a matter of fact I do. Arimgat, Argentina. Something about a swing set that moves on its own without wind present. Apparently many people witnessed it and even recorded it swinging for a whole 10 days. That one is what caught my eye the most. The rest I did some research and it came up balony. Like I thought it was going tone. Go check out the ghost swingset one.[/QUOTE] Pendulums, how do they work?
[QUOTE=Jookia;35822773]Shouldn't ghosts be stuck at the centre of the Earth, gravity?[/QUOTE] ~~~magic~~~
[QUOTE=Jookia;35822773]Shouldn't ghosts be stuck at the centre of the Earth, gravity?[/QUOTE] If they pass through the earth like that why would gravity effect them?
[QUOTE=Splarg!;35832735]If they pass through the earth like that why would gravity effect them?[/QUOTE] then why the fuck would they be chilling out at Earth to begin with when they have an eternity to explore the fucking universe. [editline]5th May 2012[/editline] Like I can understand maybe a few decades of haunting shit, but wouldn't these centuries-old ghosts be like "yo, this place is getting sort of old. Let's go to the fucking moon." [editline]5th May 2012[/editline] also what is ghosts maximum flight speed
[QUOTE=Lankist;35832801]also what is ghosts maximum flight speed[/QUOTE] My Monster Manual says 300' a minute with perfect maneuverability.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;35532187]I often find myself flip-flopping on my belief in the paranormal. (Ghosts and such) That statement sounds hypocritical, but being an Atheist sort of allows that. Why? Well science is just as much of a guessing game as anything else. What we don't know we try to guess and solve with logic; then we test it with experiments until it can be proven or disproven as a theory. I have had a few paranormal experiences, but I just haven't and inclination of what a ghost would be if souls aren't actually there. I don't think we'll know for quite a long time and I'm ok with that. Part of the excitement of living in this Universe is always having some goal or exciting truth to uncover about the Universe's mysterious internal workings.[/QUOTE] Guessing game? the fuck kinda science have you ever done that involved guess work? And you don't prove or disprove something with science, ever. [editline]5th May 2012[/editline] Also I don't even understand why this shit is up for debate man, this is the 21st century, there are no such things as ghosts and poltergeists.
Listen, everyone who believes in ghosts. If you cannot prove something, it is untrue or it does not exist. This has been the basis of philosophy and science for thousands of years. If you cannot disprove something, that is not evidence of its existence. And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence. And I challenge anyone to give an example of any well known paranormal event. I am completely sure that if it is high profile, it HAS been disproven by science.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;35862661]And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence.[/QUOTE] On this point, you can use just about any argument against the God of the Gaps to the same effect. Ignorance is not license to make shit up, and ignorance is only a temporary, perpetually shrinking state.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;35862661]Listen, everyone who believes in ghosts. If you cannot prove something, it is untrue or it does not exist. This has been the basis of philosophy and science for thousands of years. If you cannot disprove something, that is not evidence of its existence. And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence. And I challenge anyone to give an example of any well known paranormal event. I am completely sure that if it is high profile, it HAS been disproven by science.[/QUOTE] "Science is the only way in the whole world anything can be even remotely true." Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something. On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35864214]Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable.[/QUOTE] FYI eye-witnesses are the lowest form of testimony in any first-world court, and are completely inadmissible in any rational or scientific setting. There's a reason for that. They are unreliable. Millions of people CAN be wrong. They frequently are. In fact, they're wrong more often than they're right. I refer back to this post in which I explain how millions of people can be and are wrong: [QUOTE=Lankist;35613856]There are no such things as ghosts, or spirits, or paranormal poltergeists or whatever. The human brain has an extreme propensity for [I]making shit up.[/I] Psychologically, we have evolved to HATE the act of [I]not knowing[/I] something. We hate the dark because we don't know what's in it, if anything. We hate seeing closed doors and shuttered windows because we don't know what's behind them. We hate seeing a rustling bush because we don't know if it's a bird or a chupacabra. Thus, the human brain faces a constant sense of cognitive dissonance when we WANT to know something but CAN'T. Regularly, to cope with the dissonance between information known and information unknown, the brain will actively speculate and attempt to fill in the blanks of the equation, typically in a "worst-case scenario" fashion. I'm not talking about conscious speculation, either, I'm talking about speculation as in "the part of your brain that processes visual information makes some shit up before sending it up to the conscious brain." This is a survival mechanism. Even if there's a one in one hundred chance that whatever is rustling in that bush is dangerous, the motherfucker who assumes it is despite all reason and rationale was the fucker who didn't get ate. This function of the human psyche gave birth to religion, spirituality, and general supernatural mythology. We are hard-wired to have an extreme desire to know things and to make shit up in our own heads when we can't. You see this phenomenon at work a lot in scientific circles, particularly historical scientists (Newton, for instance,) who turn to religion and supernaturalism when they reach the limits of their knowledge and simply do not have the tools or the means to learn more things legitimately. Additionally, human perceptions are extremely faulty. The human forebrain, to conserve energy, often gets "bored," so to speak, when it is presented with static, mundane information. For instance, a recent study (don't have a link, but google it) showed that a majority of human test subjects who were told to look at themselves in a mirror non-stop for long periods of time would eventually report that their own faces morphed, or were replaced by monstrous, inhuman figures. This is because, as the brain stops processing repetitious visual information, it starts making assumptions about what it *should* be seeing rather than actively processing sensory information. The brain is not very good at making assumptions, suffice to say. So, when you see something out of the corner of your eye, or immediately think "ghosts!" when something seems off, your brain is quite simply fucking with you. The "see it to believe it" logic is faulty considering our senses are so completely inept at actually giving us accurate information that we had to invent scientific tools just to compensate with our tendency to make shit up--scientific tools that have, thus far, returned negative results toward supernatural hypotheses 100% of the time. Your instincts function to help you survive, not to help you understand. If you think you see a ghost and you run, you will certainly survive to tell the tale. That does not mean your instinct is trustworthy in that regard. You can trust your brain to keep you alive, not to tell you the truth.[/QUOTE] [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] Also science is may not be the answer to everything when you account for metaphysical bullshit, but it's the only field that has any real answers to begin with. [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] Also, using your "world is flat" example: Millions of people firmly believed the world was flat. They were fucking wrong. They were only proven wrong by a dude with science.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35864214]"Science is the only way in the whole world anything can be even remotely true." Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something. On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.[/QUOTE] Yes, eyewitness are notoriously, infamously unreliable. To be honest it seems like more of an excuse used to justify belief in something ignorant. Every day countless people see angels, aliens, ghosts, god, gods, monsters and more (and even have conversations with these), of which none obviously took place. And do you know why science says no? Because there is no evidence. If there had been actual, falsifiable evidence it wouldn't be so easy to rule it out as bullshit.
Also you can't just say 'prove they don't exist' because the fact of the matter is, at this moment in time, there is nothing to suggest they do. You can't disprove something that isn't currently proven.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35864214]On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little. [/QUOTE] The fact that if ghosts existed, the world would go around the sun to leave them floating in space.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35864593]The fact that if ghosts existed, the world would go around the sun to leave them floating in space.[/QUOTE] and the sun would be circulating around the black hole in the center of our galaxy, which itself is currently moving at around 400 km/s through empty space. Also, what happens to ghost when the world ends? When it's absorbed by the sun, where do they go?
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