• Death sentence
    413 replies, posted
For those of you who say that prison is about rehabilitation - what do you think about a murderer who did his crime just our of revenge, knowing what he did was wrong, being completely sane. Why wouldn't he deserve death sentence?
[QUOTE=jbthekid;32378037]I am also for the death penalty in certain situations, but I agree that it has been used to our advantage sometimes. In some cases, people really did not deserve it especially when they were innocent. Some people though, just need to be put to death.[/QUOTE] I also think something like this People should be in prision to be rehabilitated, which will mostly do the trick But some people are just beyond any fucking repair (Not saying we shouldent try though)
[QUOTE=overpain;32376515]Not i will kill him,the poison will. [/QUOTE] Well, in that case, you'd better let him go free - after all, he didn't kill anyone, it was just his gun. I would say that it's very easy to justify the death penalty by saying that murderers and the like are 'no longer human' and so are no longer deserving of human rights. I think that's a very dangerous view; the idea that at any point the government can decide that someone no longer deserves human rights for any arbitrary reason. Surely the point of human rights is that they apply to all humans, regardless of what they've done.
You can debate morals forever. I'd like to point out there is no deterrent effect, in fact, states WITH the death penalty have a higher crime rate, and states that drop the death penalty show NO CHANGE. It costs much more to do the death penalty then life in prison, about 2-3 times more also. And freeing up prison room? Yeah, a couple of cells. Might as well make minor offenders do community service.
I think if people have the ability to commit murder or such savage crimes anyway, then they're probably pretty numb to any sort of emotion, including fear of death, so I don't think it'll ever deter murder or crime in that sense
Sometimes I feel like the only person who value human life, so it's nice with threads like these. I mean, even if I read about a person who slaughters countless human beings, I don't want him to die. Lock him up for the rest of his life, sure, but I don't think he should be killed. Let him sit and think about what he did.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;32377846] 3.By killing them others will be less likely to do it because they probably don't want to die. [/QUOTE] Not really. Around 88% of criminologists agree that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent for homicide. Even if the death penalty was more frequently used, nothing will change. [url=http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88-criminologists-do-not-believe-death-penalty-effective-deterrent]Source[/url]
[QUOTE=mac338;32375307]11) Mentally ill people who need treatment may be killed instead.[/QUOTE] But hey, if they're that mentally ill, it's likely that it's genetic and a good idea to end their gene pool so that they no longer are a threat. [QUOTE=mac338;32375307]10) I fail to see how killing someone actually helps anyone.[/QUOTE] If I murder someone, I would want to get the death sentence. I could never live with it.
If you go to prison for killing someone, would you rather spend your entire life in prison and get treated like shit? Or just die and get it over with. Plus, I don't want to give some serial killer the chance to escape from a prison, or some gang leader to get busted out and continue with their crimes.
Political debates, hurrah. I plan to be a magistrate in the future and I research law, so here we go... I see no wrong in culling anothers life, yet I do konw that it shouldn't be a court sentence. The fact is that we go to wars and we're OK with it. We sentence someone to death and everyone gets rowdy. Think about that. I only know it shouldn't be in court because, well, you've already listed the reasons.
[QUOTE=CatFodder;32378543]Well, in that case, you'd better let him go free - after all, he didn't kill anyone, it was just his gun. I would say that it's very easy to justify the death penalty by saying that murderers and the like are 'no longer human' and so are no longer deserving of human rights. I think that's a very dangerous view; the idea that at any point the government can decide that someone no longer deserves human rights for any arbitrary reason. Surely the point of human rights is that they apply to all humans, regardless of what they've done.[/QUOTE] Really, the view that human life means nothing as it becomes more convenient to your own morality is the most dangerous view of all. It's no different to the killer's own morality most of the time - that his killings mean little because those he killed meant little. If our own government and those in power take this view, then it's the same person sitting up high - just more power to get away with his killings. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Irockz;32380024]Political debates, hurrah. I plan to be a magistrate in the future and I research law, so here we go... I see no wrong in culling anothers life, yet I do konw that it shouldn't be a court sentence. The fact is that we go to wars and we're OK with it. We sentence someone to death and everyone gets rowdy. Think about that. I only know it shouldn't be in court because, well, you've already listed the reasons.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, because killing someone in self-defense is always the same as killing someone who's bound and helpless.
I would just base this whole system upon this. If you kill someone or try to attempt murder you will be executed as either way you have killed or tried to.
It disturbs me that people try to justify capital punishment with the 'if they do something reprehensible then they're not people any more' argument. Everyone is equal before the law, and it's not hard to see how judging someones intrinsic value as a human being based on their crime goes against that principle.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32380238]It disturbs me that people try to justify capital punishment with the 'if they do something reprehensible then they're not people any more' argument. Everyone is equal before the law, and it's not hard to see how judging someones intrinsic value as a human being based on their crime goes against that principle.[/QUOTE] Really, it's kind of shocking to see so many people are taking this view. I mean... how do you become less than human from killing someone? You become in need of help in that event, not the scum of the Earth.
[QUOTE=Tobba;32378269]I also think something like this People should be in prision to be rehabilitated, which will mostly do the trick But some people are just beyond any fucking repair (Not saying we shouldent try though)[/QUOTE] Prison makes people hardened criminals even more when they get out(if they do)
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;32380639]Prison makes people hardened criminals even more when they get out(if they do)[/QUOTE] That's far more a sign of the inadequecy of many prison systems than it is a sign of any problem with the idea of rehabilitation.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;32375380]I was pretty pro-death penalty up until a few months ago. I don't know what did it, but I changed my mind pretty much overnight. I suppose it was the argument that executing a killer makes the state just as bad.[/QUOTE] Puberty can do that to a person. --- I'm pro Death Penalty. But not for small cases, like murder, that should be jailed. I'm talking about cases like mass murder, mass pedo, anything with a mass prefix.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;32380723]I'm pro Death Penalty. But not for small cases, like murder, that should be jailed. I'm talking about cases like mass murder, mass pedo, anything with a mass prefix.[/QUOTE] I can understand that viewpoint, but why not the more humane option of giving those kind of criminals a full life sentence with access to euthanasia if they so desire? Either way they're not being let out into society again, so we might as well let them pick which option they prefer.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;32380723]Puberty can do that to a person. --- I'm pro Death Penalty. But not for small cases, like murder, that should be jailed. I'm talking about cases like mass murder, mass pedo, anything with a mass prefix.[/QUOTE] How does one "mass pedo"? Anyways, why does commiting the crime multiple times make them worth killing? Why not the first time, other than what I've alread said?
Personaly, if someone murdured my whole familly. I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to keeping them alive and healthy, while they sit in a prison that may well be nicer than there house. Maybe it is just my lust for revenge, but I wouldn't want a person to enjoy there time in prison. They comitted a crime, and should be punished for it.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];32380957']Personaly, if someone murdured my whole familly. I wouldn't want my tac dollars going to keeping them alive and healthy.[/QUOTE] Of course not, but we don't pass laws based on the emotions of the victims. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] Besides your tax dollars will be going towards them whether they get prison or the death sentence, so that argument doesn't serve much purpose.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32380990]Of course not, but we don't pass laws based on the emotions of the victims.[/QUOTE] There is also practical reasoning behind this. Although it may sound a little extreme, I don't even think there should be a life sentence in prison, It never rehabilitates anyone, since they will never get out anyway. If someone has a life sentence, they obviously committed an awful crime, and should either have a way to make themselves profitable to the outside, law abiding world, or get out of the world (capital punishment)
[QUOTE='[sluggo];32381076']There is also practical reasoning behind this. Although it may sound a little extreme, I don't even think there should be a life sentence in prison, It never rehabilitates anyone, since they will never get out anyway. If someone has a life sentence, they obviously committed an awful crime, and should either have a way to make themselves profitable to the outside, law abiding world, or get out of the world (capital punishment)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32380779]I can understand that viewpoint, but why not the more humane option of giving those kind of criminals a full life sentence with access to euthanasia if they so desire? Either way they're not being let out into society again, so we might as well let them pick which option they prefer.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32381093][/QUOTE] Well, what options?
[QUOTE='[sluggo];32381104']Well, what options?[/QUOTE] Life in prison or voluntary euthanasia. Either way the persons permanently removed from society, it's the most moral solution, plus it would probably work out less expensive than capital punishment.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;32377846]1. Their's nothing "sacred" about a murders, rapists, and child molesters. if you think it's lowering people to their level by killing them, well that's your opinion, but it doesn't mean you're right. 2. One bullet doesn't cost a lot, and yes you might have a hard time finding someone to kill the person, not to mention they might regret it, but overall you won't have to use expensive chemicals or waste billions keeping them in prison. [B]3.By killing them others will be less likely to do it because they probably don't want to die.[/B] 4. yes it sucks for their families, if I had a family member in prison I would feel sad as fuck, but they did a terrible crime and it's their fault for doing it.[/QUOTE] I don't think that logic has ever worked in the course of civilized history. Take the US prison system for example. Or punitive parents. Or any time that logic was ever used.
[QUOTE=Mcpaddyquack;32380021]If you go to prison for killing someone, would you rather spend your entire life in prison and get treated like shit? Or just die and get it over with. Plus, I don't want to give some serial killer the chance to escape from a prison, or some gang leader to get busted out and continue with their crimes.[/QUOTE] Accused murderers also stay in a highly secured prison for a "small" amount of years (max I've seen was 17) before they get executed. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SpaceGhost;32377846] 2. One bullet doesn't cost a lot, and yes you might have a hard time finding someone to kill the person, not to mention they might regret it, but overall you won't have to use expensive chemicals or waste billions keeping them in prison..[/QUOTE] People have to plan the execution carefully so that the criminal won't survive from it. I remember that in some states, if the criminal survives, he is free to go.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32381173]Life in prison or voluntary euthanasia. Either way the persons permanently removed from society, it's the most moral solution, plus it would probably work out less expensive than capital punishment.[/QUOTE] Life in prison is not the moral option from the victims perspective (atleast not generally) and I think the victim is allot more important than the murdurer/rapist/whatever the hell he did. If anything you could let the victim decide, or have some way for inmates that choose life in prison to make themselves productive, and costless.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];32381421']Life in prison is not the moral option from the victims perspective (atleast not generally) and I think the victim is allot more important than the murdurer/rapist/whatever the hell he did. If anything you could let the victim decide[/QUOTE] yes because a dead person sure can make decisions
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;32381198]Accused murderers also stay in a highly secured prison for a "small" amount of years (max I've seen was 17) before they get executed. People have to plan the execution carefully so that the criminal won't survive from it. I remember that in some states, if the criminal survives, he is free to go.[/QUOTE] If you shoot them right between the eys you won't live, honestly how do people survive getting injected with chemicals or survive a gunshot to the head, it's a tiny chance they will anyway.
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