• Firearms XI: Biden Double Barrel Bonanza; ITS UNHAPPENING
    14,810 replies, posted
It's a Samopal vzor 26 in this case (7,62 mm Tokarev and folding stock)
so i need help Polish radom built AK 7.62x39 $939+shipping [img]http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/aapolishfold27.jpg[/img] PTR G3 .308 for $899+free shipping [img]http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/ptr308gi.jpg[/img] or i buy a vz58 plus a wasr. or 2 wasrs
Ew why does that PTR come with a slimline and navy trigger group? It's either slimline HG+steel group or wide HG+navy group
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45195364]It's a Samopal vzor 26 in this case (7,62 mm Tokarev and folding stock)[/QUOTE] That still doesn't answer how you managed to acquire a submachine gun in Norwegia.
The secret of welding and lathes. [IMG]http://www.mediacom.no/media/2739209/norvegia%20ost%20reklameb%C3%B8rst_621%20x%20227.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45195398]Ew why does that PTR come with a slimline and navy trigger group? It's either slimline HG+steel group or wide HG+navy group[/QUOTE] i mean i can change the furniture no big deal
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45195509]The secret of welding and lathes. [IMG]http://www.mediacom.no/media/2739209/norvegia%20ost%20reklameb%C3%B8rst_621%20x%20227.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] I thought Norway had a list of approved semis, or are you in a position where you simply don't give a shit?
I really hope you guys don't think I'm dumb enough to post about illegal guns online.
Yeah... That's Umenat's territory, you Commie!
<3 Eesti & Sovjet <3
Well how do I know he's not Umenat in disguise, or maybe he's the Norwegian Umenat? I'm just trying to be accommodating to the investigators.
...The fact he's not completely annoying, just mostly pretentious... Also, he doesn't exclusively post suicide/execution mockups for no reason with his leet deactivated AK?
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45195364]It's a Samopal vzor 26 in this case (7,62 mm Tokarev and folding stock)[/QUOTE] Sexy. I was going to make one, but the fact that it's chambered in 7.62 tok kinda turned me off of it. Then I built an MP-5 instead.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;45196051]Well how do I know he's not Umenat in disguise, or maybe he's the Norwegian Umenat? I'm just trying to be accommodating to the investigators.[/QUOTE] You can tell whatever alphabet agency you contacted to pull around their Geländewagens and go home for the night. [t]http://puu.sh/9HmCj/5fdb040de5.jpg[/t] Got it as a collector's piece/shelf sitter since the Sa.23 series is as unfamiliar as it is to most western firearm enthusiasts. It's a neat gun, lots of ideas implemented in an era that would have me think the .cz are way ahead of their time. Don't see them here often, so I figured I'd just get it and sell it whenever I need the cash. Value doesn't sink when it sits on a shelf anyway! Figured I'd get some stripper clips to put rounds onto for photographs, I've tried loading magazines with one clip I found laying around in my spare-parts-and-unsorted-stuff-box, and it's just a pain in the ass. You have to line the clip perfectly up with the magazine or you just bend it before you shoot it out and it hits you in the leg. It's entirely useless and the Czechoslovaks behind it wasted good steel on it :(
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45196172]You can tell whatever alphabet agency you contacted to pull around their Geländewagens and go home for the night. [IMG]http://puu.sh/9HmCj/5fdb040de5.jpg[/IMG] Got it as a collector's piece/shelf sitter since the Sa.23 series is as unfamiliar as it is to most western firearm enthusiasts. Figured I'd get some stripper clips to put rounds onto for photographs, I've tried loading magazines with one clip I found laying around in my spare-parts-and-unsorted-stuff-box. It's entirely useless and the Czechoslovaks behind it wasted good steel on a good-for-nothing load ramp :([/QUOTE] Do you know what Norwegia's laws are for importing them? Because I could potentially mail you some. I have, like, 200 of them and they're totally worthless to me.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45196172]You can tell whatever alphabet agency you contacted to pull around their Geländewagens and go home for the night. [t]http://puu.sh/9HmCj/5fdb040de5.jpg[/t] Got it as a collector's piece/shelf sitter since the Sa.23 series is as unfamiliar as it is to most western firearm enthusiasts. It's a neat gun, lots of ideas implemented in an era that would have me think the .cz are way ahead of their time. Don't see them here often, so I figured I'd just get it and sell it whenever I need the cash. Value doesn't sink when it sits on a shelf anyway! Figured I'd get some stripper clips to put rounds onto for photographs, I've tried loading magazines with one clip I found laying around in my spare-parts-and-unsorted-stuff-box, and it's just a pain in the ass. You have to line the clip perfectly up with the magazine or you just bend it before you shoot it out and it hits you in the leg. It's entirely useless and the Czechoslovaks behind it wasted good steel on it :([/QUOTE] Looks like a technically challenging project. Was it fun?
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;45196197]Do you know what Norwegia's laws are for importing them? Because I could potentially mail you some. I have, like, 200 of them and they're totally worthless to me.[/QUOTE] We don't have any laws regarding import of things like that, our customs treat stripper clips like stripper clips (pieces of innocent metal). That'd be great, thanks for the offer. [QUOTE=ilikecorn;45196208]Looks like a technically challenging project. Was it fun?[/QUOTE] Not quite sure if you're asking if I put it together myself from parts, but if you are, I bought it deactivated (as you see in the first photo). I just disassembled and reassembled it for a quick photo. It's sad that guns like these are botchered the way they are. Shouldn't happen in any way, but it still does. If it's any consolation, I personally think it's better that collectors get the joy of getting to handle and enjoy the feel of them, and looking at how they work. Guns like these that aren't deactivated usually get demilled (lot more gruesome than the drilled barrel and ground bolt) and thrown into a crucible.. It's fascinatingly easy put together. If you're not familiar with it, you push in a small button in the middle of the rear tube end, twist off the cover, pull out the bolt, use the bolt to loosen the barrel nut, and then just pull it straight out. [t]http://puu.sh/9HnpN/e4604ebfd4.jpg[/t] Here's a photo of the magazine loader, by the way. You put a stripper clip onto the slot and just pust the magazine against it. When it's empty it pops out on the other end of the loader.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45196273]We don't have any laws regarding import of things like that, our customs treat stripper clips like stripper clips (pieces of innocent metal). That'd be great, thanks for the offer. Not quite sure if you're asking if I put it together myself from parts, but if you are, I bought it deactivated (as you see in the first photo). I just disassembled and reassembled it for a quick photo. It's fascinatingly easy put together. If you're not familiar with it, you push in a small button in the middle of the rear tube end, twist off the cover, pull out the bolt, use the bolt to loosen the barrel nut, and then just pull it straight out. [t]http://puu.sh/9HnpN/e4604ebfd4.jpg[/t] Here's a photo of the magazine loader, by the way. You put a stripper clip onto the slot and just pust the magazine against it. When it's empty it pops out on the other end of the loader.[/QUOTE] I thought you'd bought it in parts and assembled it into a functional weapon. Still not disappointed, as it's a nifty little toy now, though a nifty toy that doesn't go bang.. but doesn't get you arrested.. fair trade off.
It would be ten times more nifty if it went bang, but I'm pretty sure I'll get to fire one live someday if I decide to travel to Tallinn. Those drunk Estonians have a habit of renting out F/A guns on their old, worn-down ranges to earn some more eurobucks. [editline]24th June 2014[/editline] And you're right in assuming it would be technically challenging! I had always been under the impression that the steel tube is a paper-thin, stamped pipe, but it's really a very beautifully milled piece of heavy steel. It's probably 3-4 mm at its thickest. Weighs a fair bit (3,3 kg I believe). There's a huge amounts of spot welds, all around. The trigger group is spot welded onto the receiver and the trigger pins are staked in, no taking them out. It's got a very nifty double-stage trigger, pulling in quickly sets off one round in S/A, pressing it all the way in in one motion switches to F/A. The rear sight rotates on a spring-loaded piston, it's got four settings (100, 200, 300, and 400 metres.. which is a bit stupid considering how useless the sights really are).
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45196305]It would be ten times more nifty if it went bang, but I'm pretty sure I'll get to fire one live someday if I decide to travel to Tallinn. Those drunk Estonians have a habit of renting out F/A guns on their old, worn-down ranges to earn some more eurobucks. [editline]24th June 2014[/editline] And you're right in assuming it would be technically challenging! I had always been under the impression that the steel tube is a paper-thin, stamped pipe, but it's really a very beautifully milled piece of heavy steel. It's probably 3-4 mm at its thickest. Weighs a fair bit (3,3 kg I believe). There's a huge amounts of spot welds, all around. The trigger group is spot welded onto the receiver and the trigger pins are staked in, no taking them out. It's got a very nifty double-stage trigger, pulling in quickly sets off one round in S/A, pressing it all the way in in one motion switches to F/A. The rear sight rotates on a spring-loaded piston, it's got four settings (100, 200, 300, and 400 metres.. which is a bit stupid considering how useless the sights really are).[/QUOTE] Really ambitious with those sights weren't they? That's pretty nifty. One of the reasons I build my own stuff is learning all the in's and outs of the weapon, and it's little secrets.
When you look at the force the bolt has travelling forwards, it's safe to assume that it's hard to hit anything past 50 metres. It has a LOT of momentum.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45196418]When you look at the force the bolt has travelling forwards, it's safe to assume that it's hard to hit anything past 50 metres. It has a LOT of momentum.[/QUOTE] "dude how far should we make the sights go out to" "I dunno man, fuck it, lets just make it 400 meters" "but it'll never hit that far" "yea, but it's nice to set the bar high".
Comes to mind: [IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YnukvBCvWxc/TJ4e_oxq2vI/AAAAAAAAABM/9iO11WXIbFk/s1600/sights.jpg[/IMG] That said, there are confirmed stories about Norwegian WW2 snipers armed with Krag-Jørgensen rifles with diopter sights engaging German troops at long over a kilometre out, and hitting with multiple kills. A bunch of Norwegian DFS shooters - Det frivillige skytter* and hit, were hiding in a mountainside scree when a bunch of Germans with regular K98ks attacked them. They held out for a couple of weeks, if I remember right, and held off the Germans using their 6,5x55mm Krags. I'm not sure the Sa. 26 is a gun that can do the same feat, however.. divné, ne? * Our national rifle shooting association where people shoot match rifles at ranges from 15 to 500(with diopter sights!!) metres during competitions. The DFS totals about 170-180 thousand people. It's the second largest sport in Norway. Pretty sure the old DFS-gets-drafted-in-case-of-a-war-deal is still in effect, Vladimir in the East should probably stay away.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45196489]Comes to mind:[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YnukvBCvWxc/TJ4e_oxq2vI/AAAAAAAAABM/9iO11WXIbFk/s1600/sights.jpg[/IMG] That said, there are confirmed stories about Norwegian snipers with Krag-Jørgensen rifles with diopter sights engaging German troops at long over a kilometre out, and hitting with multiple kills. A bunch of Norwegian DFS shooters - Det frivillige skyttervesen, our national rifle shooting association where people use match rifles with diopters at ranges from 15 to 500(!) metres, and hit, where hiding in a mountainside scree when a bunch of Germans with regular K98ks attacked them. They held out for weeks, IIRC, and picked of kraut by kraut using their 6,5x55mm Krags. I'm not sure the Sa. 26 is a gun that can do the same feat, however.. divné, ne?[/QUOTE] Its the little machine pistol that could. It thinks it can, and that's all that matters.
That must've been the mindset of the guy that designed the sights. Proposing this to the approval board of Czech submachine gun designs must have required having balls so hard they can be used in APFSDS projectiles.. [t]http://puu.sh/9HpS7/28d742c1f1.jpg[/t] [I](Avatar is very much fitting)[/I]
Been working on this idea for a few hours. From what i know about ballistics, with a subsonic bullet, heavier is better in terms of energy. So i came up with the idea of loading some 600-700gr .500 S&W Magnum rounds with slow-burning powder to subsonic velocities, building a bolt-action rifle that works with .500 S&W Magnum, then putting a suppressor on it. I think it will put the VSS to shame in terms of armor piercing capabilities(the SP-5 rounds, not steel cored SP-6). This is just a basic idea, but i wonder what you guys think of it. I'm gonna work more on the details, but i'm not certain that it will ever happen though. It just seems like a cool idea that might be impractical. I realize now that it has already been done with the .510 Whisper. So it seems my idea is more practical. A 20rnd box of .510 Whisper goes for $140 in most places, so a .500 S&W Subsonic handload would be a better option.
The Czech make it possible to shoot an SMG at 400m, but we still can't get windage sights standard on our handguns here... I am shamed... (Actually, for that matter, I don't think I've owned a rifle with standard stock open sights that were adjustable for windage, actually.) [editline]23rd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=zombini;45196680]Been working on this idea for a few hours. From what i know about ballistics, with a subsonic bullet, heavier is better in terms of energy. So i came up with the idea of loading some 600-700gr .500 S&W Magnum rounds with slow-burning powder to subsonic velocities, building a bolt-action rifle that works with .500 S&W Magnum, then putting a suppressor on it. I think it will put the VSS to shame in terms of armor piercing capabilities(the SP-5 rounds, not steel cored SP-6). This is just a basic idea, but i wonder what you guys think of it. I'm gonna work more on the details, but i'm not certain that it will ever happen though. It just seems like a cool idea that might be impractical.[/QUOTE] Energy (kinetic) is mv²/2. Once you get below sonic speeds, you have to double and triple weights of the projectile to equal the initial energy of a supersonic round. When you start increasing the weights to the same levels, you start to tend to get rounds that deposit energy quickly, as opposed to breaking through with heavy pressure. Being as .500 s&w is a flat-nosed round, it's not going to penetrate armor very effectively.
[QUOTE=mastoner20;45196689] Energy (kinetic) is mv²/2. Once you get below sonic speeds, you have to double and triple weights of the projectile to equal the initial energy of a supersonic round. When you start increasing the weights to the same levels, you start to tend to get rounds that deposit energy quickly, as opposed to breaking through with heavy pressure. Being as .500 s&w is a flat-nosed round, it's not going to penetrate armor very effectively.[/QUOTE] I was considering a FMJ pointed round actually. I dug around a little and couldn't find any that were above 300gr, but it's a WIP idea. Plus the heavier round will have far more momentum, so even if there's not as much penetration, you're still hitting someone with an extremely heavy bullet that would have the energy of a 5.56. Unless the target was wearing a vest with SAPI plates, the impact alone would kill them.
Injure, definitely. Kill... maybe. Really depends on the vitals and trauma. Firearms have a nasty way of not killing with blunt force unless penetration is done. Broken bones and internal bleeding will likely happen if the armor isn't failed, but that rarely results in immediate or timely death. But, with heavier weight of the 5-600 grains also comes increased drag which further lowers the velocity, which has a negative impact on the energy, as well since a 4% drop in speed has a 4% drop in energy while the same 4% drop in mass has a nearly negligible amount in energy. (Sorry, my math was all sorts of mucked up in my head the first try.)
[QUOTE=mastoner20;45196829]Injure, definitely. Kill... maybe. Really depends on the vitals and trauma. Firearms have a nasty way of not killing with blunt force unless penetration is done. Broken bones and internal bleeding will likely happen if the armor isn't failed, but that rarely results in immediate or timely death. But, with heavier weight of the 5-600 grains also comes increased drag which further lowers the velocity, which has a negative impact on the energy, as well since a 4% drop in speed has a 4% drop in energy while the same 4% drop in mass has a nearly negligible amount in energy. (Sorry, my math was all sorts of mucked up in my head the first try.)[/QUOTE] The increased drag is more related to size, aerodynamics, and overall velocity. For example, a .22 WMR with a 30gr FMJ round would have a muzzle energy of 325ft-lbf and that drops to 120ft-lbf at 100yd. The same caliber with a 40gr JHP at a lower velocity gives a muzzle energy of 324ft-lbf and a drop to 162ft-lbf at 100yd. A heavier bullet loaded to the same energy in the same caliber will carry more energy further than a faster round would. Even thought the JHP is less aerodynamic than the FMJ, the extra weight overcame this deficiency and carried more energy down range. I got this example from Chuckhawks on his page comparing the .17 HMR and the .22 WMR.
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