• Columbus Day: Yay or Nay?
    69 replies, posted
So. It's Columbus Day here in America. This celebrates some guy who "discovered" the New World. (SPOILER: He didn't discover it. I mean not really.) But you know what I think about Christopher Columbus? [h2]Fuck him, thats what I think.[/h2] "But Silentjubjub, he discovered the Americas! How could you say that about him?!" No he didn't. You may think he did but NOPE. Sure, he "discovered" the Americas for the Europeans. However, he wasn't even the first to know about it. That's right. Indians who crossed over from India over the Bering Sea Land Bridge knew about the Americas [I]thousands[/I] of years before Columbus. This is common knowledge, yet we still hail him as the discoverer of the Americas. FOR THE ~WHITE FOLK~. Which brings me to my point about how this holiday is biased as [B]fuck[/B]. Who was Christopher Columbus? - Some white guy. Who sent him to the West Indies? - Some white people. Who was America claimed for? - White people. Who were fucked in the ass at this point? - Indians. Who created a holiday dedicated to Chris? - White people. Who celebrates the holiday? - Uneducated people. (Some schools let their students break for this shit. WHY?) HMMMM. "Hey SilentAssHole, nobody cares what race devised this wondrous holiday." I'm trying to prove a point here. Calm down. That shit up there wasn't even the MEAT of my argument. OH NO. Let us take a look at how Mr. Columbus treated the Indians. OK Chris comes over, Indians give him free shit right off the bat. He LOVES this and praises them and their well-built bodies that would just make ADORABLE SLAVES. - Totally deserving of having a holiday named after him Oh hey, GOLD. Chris LOVES gold. Hey Indians, LET HIM HAVE SOME AND HE WON'T CUT OFF YOUR HANDS. Ata boy. - Totally deserving of having a holiday named after him Oh let us reminisce on the countless murders that took place under Chris. Oh GLORIOUS GENOCIDE. -Totally deserving of having a holiday named after him Christopher Columbus is totally deserving of having a holiday named after him in a country that is the biggest melting pot of cultural identity in the world. I wholeheartedly welcome this holiday with open arms and PRAISE THE LORD for slavery, severed limbs, and genocide. Wonderful. [sp]If you thought I was serious about the last bit you can go fuck yourself.[/sp] [b]I expect an opposing side due to the silliness of Facepunch. So go ahead.[/b]
I highly doubt Columbus did half of what you said
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32714560]I highly doubt Columbus did half of what you said[/QUOTE] Ok. You just proved a point. Thanks. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] They don't teach this shit. That's why.
[QUOTE=silentjubjub;32714575]Ok. You just proved a point. Thanks. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] They don't teach this shit. That's why.[/QUOTE] Provide me with some citations then I'll believe you. I just feel you're getting the colonists mixed up with Columbus
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32714610]Provide me with some citations then I'll believe you. I just feel you're getting the colonists mixed up with Columbus[/QUOTE] Just a sec. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] I have some articles to bolster this. [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-kasum/columbus-day-a-bad-idea_b_742708.html[/url] That explains quite a bit. As for the gold thing: [quote=]...they ordered all persons fourteen years or older to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they brought it, they were given copper tokens to hang around their necks. Indians found without a copper token had their hands cut off and bled to death. [/quote] [url=http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncol1.html]Source[/url] [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] Like, I know that it was acceptable back then to do those horrible things. However, I don't see why the hell we have this holiday in this day and age. :\
Columbus was just another human. If he perished on his voyage or some shit another explorer would come along and take his place and history would progress as normal. For example John Cabot. Instead we'd be all "Cabot day" "Fuck Cabot day" and places called Columbia would instead be called Cabotia. You also seem extremely angry about him and the arrival of Europeans in the New world. Discovery of the New World was inevitable anyways. You had English and Norwegians who trawled the coasts of Newfoundland and Greenland for decades before Columbus set sail, and pressure by the Ottoman empire forced Europeans to find new trade routes.
[QUOTE=silentjubjub;32714490]So. It's Columbus Day here in America. This celebrates some guy who "discovered" the New World. [/QUOTE] Look at your little country flag. Without Columbus it wouldn't be there. Be grateful our Queen decided to sell her jewels to fund Columbus' voyage.
[QUOTE=Maximo13;32714919]Look at your little country flag. Without Columbus it wouldn't be there. Be grateful our Queen decided to sell her jewels to fund Columbus' voyage.[/QUOTE] No, I'd be a native American kid instead. The flag would probably be a heck of a lot more badass, as would the name. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] Well the name would make sense anyway...
[QUOTE=Zedicus Mann;32714948]No, I'd be a native American kid instead. The flag would probably be a heck of a lot more badass, as would the name. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] Well the name would make sense anyway...[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be him posting though, would it?
[QUOTE=Maximo13;32714919]Look at your little country flag. Without Columbus it wouldn't be there. Be grateful our Queen decided to sell her jewels to fund Columbus' voyage.[/QUOTE] Somebody else would have done it. :v:
The first white guy to discover America was FYI [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson"]Leiv Eriksson.[/URL]
I just think we should get rid of the holiday. :\
[QUOTE=Maximo13;32714957]It wouldn't be him posting though, would it?[/QUOTE] It would be his spirit, just placed into a different body since history would be different.
[QUOTE=mac338;32714970]The first white guy to discover America was FYI [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson"]Leiv Eriksson.[/URL][/QUOTE] Happy Lief Eriksson Day.
The only thing I dislike about this particular Columbus Day is that the banks are all closed so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get a car loan :( Otherwise, I honestly don't see why there's even a reason to "debate" about this day because it's not like anybody actually celebrates it to condone slavery or the inevitable slaughter of native americans from the Europeans-people just appreciate not having to go to work today. It's not a big deal.
[QUOTE=mac338;32714970]The first white guy to discover America was FYI [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson"]Leiv Eriksson.[/URL][/QUOTE] [video=youtube;FBrQ6qNdpKg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBrQ6qNdpKg[/video] Yerga hinger dinger!
Here in California we don't celebrate Columbus Day. Though I wouldn't mind a day off, I don't really care.
[QUOTE=silentjubjub;32714490] Chris comes over, Indians give him free shit right off the bat. He LOVES this and praises them and their well-built bodies that would just make ADORABLE SLAVES. - Totally deserving of having a holiday named after him[/QUOTE] Also its a fallacy that the natives were a peaceful utopian people. They still practised in the art of war like other humans in history, and sometimes practised a bit of cannibalism for defeated warriors. While the stories of cruelty are true, do not discount the fact that native peoples can be just as vicious and bloodthirsty. Many, many, many explorers have learned this the hard way.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;32714994] Otherwise, I honestly don't see why there's even a reason to "debate" about this day because it's not like anybody actually celebrates it to condone slavery or the inevitable slaughter of native americans from the Europeans-people just appreciate not having to go to work today. It's not a big deal.[/QUOTE] Yes but we are celebrating someone who partook in such activities. :eng101: Honestly, I find it a big deal and don't think the holiday should exist. That's all and there's not much more I can say. :C
[QUOTE=Zedicus Mann;32715003][video=youtube;FBrQ6qNdpKg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBrQ6qNdpKg[/video] Yerga hinger dinger![/QUOTE] Silly you. You don't know Norwegian whatsoever. It's Hångæ Dænger Fjørgen.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32715055]Also its a fallacy that the natives were a peaceful utopian people. They still practised in the art of war like other humans in history, and sometimes practised a bit of cannibalism for defeated warriors. While the stories of cruelty are true, do not discount the fact that native peoples can be just as vicious and bloodthirsty. Many, many, many explorers have learned this the hard way.[/QUOTE] The Indians that Columbus encountered (The Arawak or something) prided themselves in hospitality and sharing. Explain to me how these Indians were deserving of what came to them. :allears: [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] I understand that not all Indians are like this but let's keep it to the affected ones and the one's I am arguing for please.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32715055]Also its a fallacy that the natives were a peaceful utopian people. They still practised in the art of war like other humans in history, and sometimes practised a bit of cannibalism for defeated warriors. While the stories of cruelty are true, do not discount the fact that native peoples can be just as vicious and bloodthirsty. Many, many, many explorers have learned this the hard way.[/QUOTE] They killed all his men at La Navidad because they were raping the women. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] And yeah, Indochinese, Vikings, Asians, they were all here first. Columbus was late to the party by a thousand years or so.
[QUOTE=OvB;32715141]They killed all his men at La Navidad because they were raping the women. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] And yeah, Indochinese, Vikings, Asians, they were all here first. Columbus was late to the party by a thousand years or so.[/QUOTE] What Columbus did however, was he kick started the age of exploration and colonisation as suddenly it became a much more attractive prospect to sail overseas to exotic new lands.
Fuck Columbus, i'll choose Leif Eiríksson over Columbus any day, seeing as he probably was the man who actually discovered America.
I get a day off from school so THANK YOU CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS YOU ROCK!
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32715241]What Columbus did however, was he kick started the age of exploration and colonisation as suddenly it became a much more attractive prospect to sail overseas to exotic new lands.[/QUOTE] Well yeah. Which is why he's seen as an important figure. If he had gone and came back without telling anyone then he would have faded away into history like the other people that went to the Americas without doing much major colonizing.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32715241]What Columbus did however, was he kick started the age of exploration and colonisation as suddenly it became a much more attractive prospect to sail overseas to exotic new lands.[/QUOTE] Kicked off? Hardly. The Age of Exploration and Colonization was in full swing by the time Columbus reached the Americas, if anyone deserves credit it's Henry the Navigator.
[QUOTE=Billiam;32717285]Kicked off? Hardly. The Age of Exploration and Colonization was in full swing by the time Columbus reached the Americas, if anyone deserves credit it's Henry the Navigator.[/QUOTE] He does deserve credit, but Columbus was the fellow who encouraged Spain to invest heavily in the New World. It was a productive enterprise as half a century later Spain was a powerful empire, having only several decades before not even existing as a single entity under one monarch. Granted there was colonialisation and exploration beforehand. (Portugal began with Ceutia in the early 15th century) However the Spanish were the first to really profit from it and as a result the other countries of Europe all wanted a piece of the pie and began to send out explorers and traders in a relentless search for gold.
A kind of agree with OP, but you know, after all its not only about discovery of America, but rather about the start of populating (and, yeah, enslaving) the new world. Yet, it was a big leap and change in the history of mankind. And you've got to remember, those times were different. So, basically I'm too lazy to write down myself rather properly, but my point is, that indeed, He did not deserve a holiday named after him. But still, he did deserve mention.
We don't celebrate it my school just has an in service day so we don't have to go to school.
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