• Columbus Day: Yay or Nay?
    69 replies, posted
OP is probably black/Indian/Hispanic. Anyways, yes everything you said was true. Columbus enslaved the Native Americans to work on Spanish plantations. He pushed his crew to the extreme and was generally really shitty at everything. He was never convinced that the Americas were not in fact Asia. He completely over-estimated the length of time to [B]circumnavigate the globe[/B] by nearly a month, sucked at managing Spain's colonies, and was generally stupid even by their time's standards. That's why no one celebrates Columbus Day anymore. Seriously? Was this new news? I thought everyone in American by now had agreed Columbus sucked and didn't deserve a holiday. Also, Columbus wasn't even the first white man to find the America. No, that would be the viking Lief Erikson, who you never even mentioned in your OP. Oh yeah, the OP. I was getting to this. Tell me, why in the holy hell does it matter if he was white or not. Why does it matter if the holiday supporters were white? Racism works both ways, dickhead. The racist label isn't just strictly confined to white people making fun of other races. So stop going all "White man evil he kill indian peoplez so he suck now and should feel bad James Cameron Avatar Dances with Wolves who-ha-ha." I'm tired of people trying to put down the white man just because his ancestor was an ass. Why the fuck should I have to feel bad and pay reparations for something I never even did?
Columbus was a faggot and doesn't deserve his own day.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;32718365]OP is probably black/Indian/Hispanic. Anyways, yes everything you said was true. Columbus enslaved the Native Americans to work on Spanish plantations. He pushed his crew to the extreme and was generally really shitty at everything. He was never convinced that the Americas were not in fact Asia. He completely over-estimated the length of time to [B]circumnavigate the globe[/B] by nearly a month, sucked at managing Spain's colonies, and was generally stupid even by their time's standards. That's why no one celebrates Columbus Day anymore. Seriously? Was this new news? I thought everyone in American by now had agreed Columbus sucked and didn't deserve a holiday. Also, Columbus wasn't even the first white man to find the America. No, that would be the viking Lief Erikson, who you never even mentioned in your OP. Oh yeah, the OP. I was getting to this. Tell me, why in the holy hell does it matter if he was white or not. Why does it matter if the holiday supporters were white? Racism works both ways, dickhead. The racist label isn't just strictly confined to white people making fun of other races. So stop going all "White man evil he kill indian peoplez so he suck now and should feel bad James Cameron Avatar Dances with Wolves who-ha-ha." I'm tired of people trying to put down the white man just because his ancestor was an ass. Why the fuck should I have to feel bad and pay reparations for something I never even did?[/QUOTE] Why should you personally have to pay reparations? I don't think you should, but look at it realistically. We started out like this: [img]http://i.imgur.com/mrjtl.jpg[/img] And of course we were colonists, but natives still had some land that wasn't being ruled over by the French or Spanish. [img]http://i.imgur.com/MUjn5.png[/img] Then Spain starts taking up more land, specifically in Western North America. And here we are today: [img]http://i.imgur.com/BmG0Z.png[/img] All in all imperial nations completely fucked the natives, and if anyone's going to be paying reparations it should be Spain, France, Britain, and the US government, especially after that nonsense known as Manifest Destiny and the Trail of Tears.
Columbus didnt discover America, Vikings did, so I see no point in celebrating.
He was nothing more than a drunk who needed money badly. No one else was really willing to make that exploration at that point in time. Plus he choked to death in a hotel room on his own vomit, true american hero. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Black;32718720]Columbus didnt discover America, Vikings did, so I see no point in celebrating.[/QUOTE] This is very true, but he 'discovered' it for the new world.
no way the dude deserves his own holiday, it's just an excuse for shopping and stuff plus I had to march in that fucking parade, it's a real bitch
[QUOTE=Black;32718720]Columbus didnt discover America, Vikings did, so I see no point in celebrating.[/QUOTE] Technically the native Indians did before the vikings.
[QUOTE=Werem00se;32718775]He was nothing more than a drunk who needed money badly. No one else was really willing to make that exploration at that point in time. Plus he choked to death in a hotel room on his own vomit, true american hero. This is very true, but he 'discovered' it for the new world.[/QUOTE] Wow, Columbus sounds like an old, washed-up rock singer.
I remember the Sopranos episode about this. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbbMIg-Aw8E[/media]
Vikings discovered America. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] I don't get your whole spiel about Native Americans being here first meaning that European contact with America isn't a big deal though. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] Columbus Day is just a minor holiday no matter what. I don't even get college off for it. No one really cares if it's Columbus Day, people just like days off. Rename it to Discovery Day or some shit, won't even matter.
Without Christopher Columbus, America as we know it today wouldn't exist. Saying we shouldn't celebrate Columbus Day because of all the bad things Columbus did is like saying we shouldn't be glad that man discovered fire because of all the bad things fire has done, completely ignoring the good that far outweighs the bad.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;32718365]Oh yeah, the OP. I was getting to this. Tell me, why in the holy hell does it matter if he was white or not. Why does it matter if the holiday supporters were white? Racism works both ways, dickhead. The racist label isn't just strictly confined to white people making fun of other races. So stop going all "White man evil he kill indian peoplez so he suck now and should feel bad James Cameron Avatar Dances with Wolves who-ha-ha." I'm tired of people trying to put down the white man just because his ancestor was an ass. Why the fuck should I have to feel bad and pay reparations for something I never even did?[/QUOTE] Calm down. I was using them as a comparison to the Indians. If you want I can change it to people-who-are-not-indians if you really want. I was not trying to lean racism onto one side or anything. :\ [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=cccritical;32719648]Without Christopher Columbus, America as we know it today wouldn't exist. Saying we shouldn't celebrate Columbus Day because of all the bad things Columbus did is like saying we shouldn't be glad that man discovered fire because of all the bad things fire has done, completely ignoring the good that far outweighs the bad.[/QUOTE] I understand that. But it's just my personal stance that we shouldn't have this holiday. I mean, someone else could've taken up the job and found the Americas and been a swell guy and I would be OK with that.
[QUOTE=cccritical;32719648]Without Christopher Columbus, America as we know it today wouldn't exist. Saying we shouldn't celebrate Columbus Day because of all the bad things Columbus did is like saying we shouldn't be glad that man discovered fire because of all the bad things fire has done, completely ignoring the good that far outweighs the bad.[/QUOTE] You make a good point but, and America would never be the same. Somebody would have found it eventually, but think, I could be typing in French right now.
Columbus did some fucked up shit. not gona lie.
Without Columbus, we would have a completely different America. One without 20-50 million dead Native Americans.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32715241]What Columbus did however, was he kick started the age of exploration and colonisation as suddenly it became a much more attractive prospect to sail overseas to exotic new lands.[/QUOTE] Actually, it was Marco Polo who did that by going to China and writing stories of it. Columbus was beaten by other Europeans actually, a few other spanish explorers made it before him.
Nuclear weapons were only possible with the discovery of fire. That's more than 70000 deaths from nuclear power alone. But without fire, humans would be little more than regular animals, only with a little less hair and crude weapons. Columbus started the genocide of the Native Americans but also started the future of the modern world.
Are you seriously trying to justify the genocide of tens of millions of people because "things would be different"
It barely effects me. I do get a day off from school, which is awesome. But even then I disapprove of why we have it. I mean its not really great having a holiday of someone who slaughtered millions of people for gold. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=cccritical;32719648]Without Christopher Columbus, America as we know it today wouldn't exist. Saying we shouldn't celebrate Columbus Day because of all the bad things Columbus did is like saying we shouldn't be glad that man discovered fire because of all the bad things fire has done, completely ignoring the good that far outweighs the bad.[/QUOTE] We should idolize good men, not men who did one minor good thing, and then a lot of horrible unspeakable things.
I think we should have a Columbo day. [img]http://www.dignews.com/legacy/screenshots/columbo_s67_box.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=WebbyKing;32720416]Are you seriously trying to justify the genocide of tens of millions of people because "things would be different"[/QUOTE] No. You wouldn't have a computer if Columbus didn't fuck them over. Internet wouldn't exist. Man wouldn't have landed on the moon. I'm not saying it wasn't a horrible terrible thing to do but it was necessary for the current level of progress we've achieved. The Dawes Act showed us that things would have been pretty much identical had we tried to get them up to the speed we were at when we found them.
Instead of Columbus day we should have Amerigo Vespucci day in honor of the italian dude who mapped America.
The guy that accidentally named the continent? How about Louis and Clark since, you know, they actually did something that didn't get facepunch's panties in a twist?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32717753]He does deserve credit, but Columbus was the fellow who encouraged Spain to invest heavily in the New World. It was a productive enterprise as half a century later Spain was a powerful empire, having only several decades before not even existing as a single entity under one monarch. Granted there was colonialisation and exploration beforehand. (Portugal began with Ceutia in the early 15th century) However the Spanish were the first to really profit from it and as a result the other countries of Europe all wanted a piece of the pie and began to send out explorers and traders in a relentless search for gold.[/QUOTE] The Portuguese profited massively from the spice trade prior to Columbus. That was the motivation. [editline]10th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=cccritical;32720911]No. You wouldn't have a computer if Columbus didn't fuck them over. Internet wouldn't exist. Man wouldn't have landed on the moon. I'm not saying it wasn't a horrible terrible thing to do but it was necessary for the current level of progress we've achieved.[/QUOTE] Without Hitler we might not be in the atomic age, but you don't see me asking for a holiday in celebration of Hitler. Yeah it's Godwin, but it's still the same reasoning. [QUOTE=cccritical;32720911]The Dawes Act showed us that things would have been pretty much identical had we tried to get them up to the speed we were at when we found them.[/QUOTE] Do you honestly consider the Dawes Act a valid attempt to "get them up to speed we were at"?
[QUOTE=Billiam;32721465]The Portuguese profited massively from the spice trade prior to Columbus. That was the motivation.[/QUOTE] Aye, but the gold was what made everyone want to go to the New World once they discovered it.
[QUOTE=cccritical;32720911]Internet wouldn't exist. Man wouldn't have landed on the moon.[/QUOTE] I'm sure it would have happened regardless
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32721555]Aye, but the gold was what made everyone want to go to the New World once they discovered it.[/QUOTE] But to say he kicked off the Age of Exploration and Colonization just isn't right.
where's that video I saw earlier on Immortal techniques facebook ah here it is [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il5hwpdJMcg[/media] it's not my place to decide being English, but I do think that honoring Columbus is a bit of a dodgy area[
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32721555]Aye, but the gold was what made everyone want to go to the New World once they discovered it.[/QUOTE] it was justified as bringing the 'proper' way of doing things the native americans were recognized as having the capability of being rational (unlike the africans, the spaniards took the arab idea that africans were just animals and really cheap labor), but were being rational the wrong way vitoria y u help create international system and legitimate the subjugation of native americans
I dislike Columbus greatly. He was a douche-bag who murdered thousands of Native Americans. Then again, I suppose if it wasn't him, it would be someone else. On-topic a bit, today in school we got an assignment where apparently Columbus, his men, the system, and the king and queen were getting sued by people for murdering Native Americans. We had to write a defense, and basically it boiled down to "we didn't fucking do it, they did it!".
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