• The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration
    487 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sonerin;36782226]Still doesn't change the fact that Islam is violent and shouldn't be welcomed.[/QUOTE] Then you're no better than the religion you try to condemn. Turning others away because of their religious backgrounds wreaks of the practices of past despots and assholes throughout history for 2000 years. I surely hope you will never mount to a leadership position with the level of ignorance bleeding out from your putrid mouth.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;36783099]That video has been proven false.[/QUOTE] By BBC. [QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36792020]Wow that's extremely racist[/QUOTE] This isn't about race, I am talking about the country/regional backgrounds. Someone from Africa is most likely uneducated and poor, which is true. Most Haitians are poor and uneducated, most Ethiopians are poor and uneducated, et cetera. These are true facts, don't pull the race card on me. [QUOTE=hypno-toad;36805097]Polytheism refers to Pagans and visa versa. Broadly it simply refers to people who believe/d in multiple gods. Christians and Jews were not polytheistic so those lines you quoted really have no meaning.[/QUOTE] Non-believers in Islam = Anyone who isn't a Muslim/anyone who doesn't believe in Islam. [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36805212]Then you're no better than the religion you try to condemn. Turning others away because of their religious backgrounds wreaks of the practices of past despots and assholes throughout history for 2000 years. I surely hope you will never mount to a leadership position with the level of ignorance bleeding out from your putrid mouth.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I dislike and discriminate people with violent beliefs. Hate me all you want.
Violent beliefs huh. Give me Koran quotes with your full analysis. Each religion has its history steeped in violence. Why do you think Islam is perceived to be so militant and defensive? Look at the Crusades and the centuries of aggressive wars waged in the name of Christianity. EDIT: And what the hell, immigrants stealing 'spots?' There isn't some quota system that countries abide by.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36806688]Violent beliefs huh. Give me Koran quotes with your full analysis. Each religion has its history steeped in violence. Why do you think Islam is perceived to be so militant and defensive? Look at the Crusades and the centuries of aggressive wars waged in the name of Christianity. EDIT: And what the hell, immigrants stealing 'spots?' There isn't some quota system that countries abide by.[/QUOTE] Qur'an's at least 25 verses: Kill non-muslims unless they convert, kill anyone who isn't a Muslim, women are inferior to men. I just summed up the violent verses to you. If you want to read them, here. And don't ever pull the "but Christians are violent too!11" card. Just because someone is a dick doesn't mean you are OK to be a dick too. [QUOTE]"Qur'an 9:5: And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." "Qur'an 4:89: They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper." "Qur'an 8:12: [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." "Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled." [/QUOTE] This one is a story about Muhammad. wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Story_of_Umm_Qirfa There are a lot more verses I can show you if you wish, just ask.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36806775] I just summed up the violent verses to you. If you want to read them, here. And don't ever pull the "but Christians are violent too!11" card. Just because someone is a dick doesn't mean you are OK to be a dick too. [/QUOTE] That's the whole reason why Islam has become militant. The Koran was written when there were an assload of rival tribes that were present throughout the Middle East. How could you defend a faith or a group of followers? Militarize them, rally them with verses from a holy text. You ever wondered why they encourage women to have offspring or polygamy? So that they can insure the survival of their followers and establish a defense of their families and follower tribes. [editline]17th July 2012[/editline] Your childish one-sided nature is not putting any weight on your points. Declaring Islam as a Death Cult. What the fuck are you on.
We need opinion on turks from someone german...
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36806825]That's the whole reason why Islam has become militant. The Koran was written when there were an assload of rival tribes that were present throughout the Middle East. How could you defend a faith or a group of followers? Militarize them, rally them with verses from a holy text. You ever wondered why they encourage women to have offspring or polygamy? So that they can insure the survival of their followers and establish a defense of their families and follower tribes. [editline]17th July 2012[/editline] Your childish one-sided nature is not putting any weight on your points. Declaring Islam as a Death Cult. What the fuck are you on.[/QUOTE] So everything you say above makes it okay for the Muslims to kill people if they don't convert into Islam? This isn't about war, it's about killing people who don't join Islam and the rule still applies. You are to kill non-muslims if you don't convert. And Islam was violent in the beginning, this isn't about Christians or Jews. [URL]http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Story_of_Umm_Qirfa[/URL] Read that, Mohammad lad slaughtered a lot of people just like Umm Qirfa for greed and personal desires. This isn't about war. [QUOTE=Dummkopfs!;36807355]We need opinion on turks from someone german...[/QUOTE] What do you want to hear about Turks?
[QUOTE=sonerin;36780696]But have a walk in the streets of Saudi Arabia with a cross necklace and the next thing you'll feel is your head dropping on the ground.[/QUOTE] this statement doesn't make any sense at all from the part about being be-headed in the streets of Saudi Arabia, to the idea that you can feel something when your brainstem is disconnected from your brain
[QUOTE=thisispain;36808157]this statement doesn't make any sense at all from the part about being be-headed in the streets of Saudi Arabia, to the idea that you can feel something when your brainstem is disconnected from your brain[/QUOTE] Search for Saudi Arabia beheadings. And apparently, you don't lose consciousness for a few seconds after you are beheaded, Einstein.
Immigration is not as big a problem as people make out, at least not in the uk. The problem is that different cultures find it difficult to integrate over a short period of time, it takes longer to establish multi-culturism which is why you get a lot of bigoted people complaining about immigrants taking jobs etc. which is just downright stupid. What gives a person born in the country they live have more rights than an immigrant? The only issue is that it could possibly lead to overcrowding in the cities, but that can be solved by various means anyway.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36780357]Because African and Middle Eastern immigrants are usually coming from low-tier families and the majority of them are uneducated and poor so they end up wasting others' spaces and most of them become criminals.[/QUOTE] Is this satire?
[QUOTE=McGii;36808474]Is this satire?[/QUOTE] No.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36806775]Qur'an's at least 25 verses: Kill non-muslims unless they convert, kill anyone who isn't a Muslim, women are inferior to men. I just summed up the violent verses to you. If you want to read them, here. And don't ever pull the "but Christians are violent too!11" card. Just because someone is a dick doesn't mean you are OK to be a dick too. This one is a story about Muhammad. wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Story_of_Umm_Qirfa There are a lot more verses I can show you if you wish, just ask.[/QUOTE] You can quote the Qur'an all you want, that really doesn't matter. Even as someone who is against religion generally for reasons such as not liking faith and putting evidence over blind claims, I still can see the ignorance seeping from you. Religion is much deeper than "well, their holy book says this, so they all must be this way!" By this train of thought, you would believe that America in its current form would be killing Muslims, Jews, non-believers and such simply because Christians are a majority in the country. It doesn't work that way. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Minds"]According to a study by a Harvard psychologist[/URL], we all have similar morals. To quite Hauser, the author, "Driving our moral judgements is a universal moral grammar, a faculty of the mind that evolved over millions of years to include a set of principles for building a range of possible moral systems. As with language, the principles that make up our moral grammar fly beneath the radar of our awareness." He surveyed a large portion of people from varying backgrounds, sexes, and religions. He found out they all have common morals. There is no reason to say that if people who are Muslim became a majority in the country, they would begin to execute non-Muslims. There is no proof of that, so to say that would be asinine.
[QUOTE=Zally13;36809559]You can quote the Qur'an all you want, that really doesn't matter. Even as someone who is against religion generally for reasons such as not liking faith and putting evidence over blind claims, I still can see the ignorance seeping from you. Religion is much deeper than "well, their holy book says this, so they all must be this way!" By this train of thought, you would believe that America in its current form would be killing Muslims, Jews, non-believers and such simply because Christians are a majority in the country. It doesn't work that way. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Minds"]According to a study by a Harvard psychologist[/URL], we all have similar morals. To quite Hauser, the author, "Driving our moral judgements is a universal moral grammar, a faculty of the mind that evolved over millions of years to include a set of principles for building a range of possible moral systems. As with language, the principles that make up our moral grammar fly beneath the radar of our awareness." He surveyed a large portion of people from varying backgrounds, sexes, and religions. He found out they all have common morals. There is no reason to say that if people who are Muslim became a majority in the country, they would begin to execute non-Muslims. There is no proof of that, so to say that would be asinine.[/QUOTE] It does matter, it sure as hell does. Qur'an = Islam. Islam is based on this piece of book, and in this piece of book you are commanded to kill non-muslims.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36810716]It does matter, it sure as hell does. Qur'an = Islam. Islam is based on this piece of book, and in this piece of book you are commanded to kill non-muslims.[/QUOTE] Find me where the majority of Muslims are out constantly killing non-Muslims. I'm not talking a splinter, crazy group who are against everybody because we can find that in everybody. Christians firebomb abortion clinics, for example. The books the Christians follow also tell the same thing, so why don't you address all my points instead of screaming the Qur'an. It's a more complex issue than that.
i personally have nothing against immigration that is, without a welfare state. remove the welfare state and i welcome open borders policy
[QUOTE=Zally13;36812057]Find me where the majority of Muslims are out constantly killing non-Muslims. I'm not talking a splinter, crazy group who are against everybody because we can find that in everybody. Christians firebomb abortion clinics, for example. The books the Christians follow also tell the same thing, so why don't you address all my points instead of screaming the Qur'an. It's a more complex issue than that.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter, Champ. Qur'an asks you to kill non-muslims and that is enough reason for us to class Islam as a violent death cult and not welcome it amongst us, I don't know what the Muslims do with their commands. It's up to them.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36812958]It doesn't matter, Champ. Qur'an asks you to kill non-muslims and that is enough reason for us to class Islam as a violent death cult and not welcome it amongst us, I don't know what the Muslims do with their commands. It's up to them.[/QUOTE] You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) Islam as a violent death cult huh.
i may not like islam or religion for that matter but nobody has the right to deny people emigrating or moving as i like to call it.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36813177]You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) Islam as a violent death cult huh.[/QUOTE] Because trying to tell me Christianity is also violent makes it okay for the Muslims to be violent too huh. You reached a point where your throat is clogged and your words don't even make sense anymore. You argue like a freshman who just made his first way into such discussion.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36814394]Because trying to tell me Christianity is also violent makes it okay for the Muslims to be violent too huh. You reached a point where your throat is clogged and your words don't even make sense anymore. You argue like a freshman who just made his first way into such discussion.[/QUOTE] Since when I condone Muslim violence? Your one-sideness on Islam and making it look like they're the only violent ones is moot when you neglect other religions and their bloody history. Any kid can pull quotes from any other religious text and say that the religion is violent.
Ignoring sonerin's horrible bigotry for a moment [QUOTE]But one issue I have is that some of them come here without mixing in with the communities, always among their own communities, because they feel safe. This annoys me especially when they are having shitloads of problems about what to buy and shit. They do not try to improve and understand the environment when they come over to a new place, and they blame the locals for being too impolite/harsh on them. Don't come flying to a country when you have no idea what its like living there, then proceed to complain.[/QUOTE] Always consider the possibility that they're trying and just having a hard time with it. It may not always be true, but most immigrants would be very happy if they could easily learn to fit in. I agree that it is their responsibility to adapt, but they shouldn't be forced to do so at a certain speed or to a certain amount. If they want to avoid adapting in a certain way because it makes them uncomfortable, there's already going to be consequences they'll have to face, we don't need to give them more.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36814394]Because trying to tell me Christianity is also violent makes it okay for the Muslims to be violent too huh. You reached a point where your throat is clogged and your words don't even make sense anymore. You argue like a freshman who just made his first way into such discussion.[/QUOTE] You're ignoring his argument. He's saying if people really did murder people solely based off their religious text, people would be getting murdered by religious people to this day.
[QUOTE=Zally13;36818740]You're ignoring his argument. He's saying if people really did murder people solely based off their religious text, people would be getting murdered by religious people to this day.[/QUOTE] And what I am saying is Islam commands people to kill non-muslims, but since 80% of the Muslims didn't and don't read Qur'an to see these commands, most of them remain passive. And if they did read them, a lot of Muslims would drop their beliefs because of the contradictions and violent verses. [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36815393]Since when I condone Muslim violence? Your one-sideness on Islam and making it look like they're the only violent ones is moot when you neglect other religions and their bloody history. Any kid can pull quotes from any other religious text and say that the religion is violent.[/QUOTE] One-sideness? I don't talk about Christianity because I haven't studied it yet. Islam is something I've been living next to for years.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36821120]And what I am saying is Islam commands people to kill non-muslims, but since 80% of the Muslims didn't and don't read Qur'an to see these commands, most of them remain passive. And if they did read them, a lot of Muslims would drop their beliefs because of the contradictions and violent verses. One-sideness? I don't talk about Christianity because I haven't studied it yet. Islam is something I've been living next to for years.[/QUOTE] You could say the same thing about Christians. I know Christians who read the Bible, actually believe in it, and haven't killed me yet for not believing, or any others. Your argument's tumbling apart because of your bigotry.
[QUOTE=Zally13;36821130]You could say the same thing about Christians. I know Christians who read the Bible, actually believe in it, and haven't killed me yet for not believing, or any others. Your argument's tumbling apart because of your bigotry.[/QUOTE] So that means they don't follow the commands, what they are ordered to do. That means they're not following the rules, thus making them "Christians" who think they're Christians but don't follow what the Bible says. That's not how you're a Christian/Muslim. In order to be one, you have to follow everything your book says. That's the whole point, the concept of religion is dumb. Especially Islam and Christianity. The way people follow it are dumb, too. And no, my arguement is not tumbling away. I am speaking simple facts with strong proof.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36821342]That's not how you're a Christian/Muslim. In order to be one, you have to follow everything your book says.[/QUOTE] so we're dismissing the existence of all sects and differentiated religions?
[QUOTE=thisispain;36821349]so we're dismissing the existence of all sects and differentiated religions?[/QUOTE] Such as?
you say you have to follow everything your book says if you are a christian or a muslim. if that was true then Catholism and Baptism wouldn't exist, neither would Sufi-ism or Sunni-ism. please tell me which sect has the correct interpretation of their religious book, and which sect is wrong.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36821394]you say you have to follow everything your book says if you are a christian or a muslim. if that was true then Catholism and Baptism wouldn't exist, neither would Sufi-ism or Sunni-ism. please tell me which sect has the correct interpretation of their religious book, and which sect is wrong.[/QUOTE] A religion is never true/correct to begin with, all Islamic sects are bullshit made on bullshit.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.