• The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration
    487 replies, posted
okay yet say not following "the rules" means you're not a muslim or a christian? according to you a muslim isn't a muslim if they don't kill people. if that is true then what the fuck are they?
[QUOTE=sonerin;36821448]A religion is never true/correct to begin with, all Islamic sects are bullshit made on bullshit.[/QUOTE] A Christian believes in Christ, and that he died for. Really, that's it. There's loads of interpretations of it that I really don't agree with, but that's how it goes.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36780317]Immigration is good as long as the immigrants are from European countries to other European countries. But African immigrants, Middle Eastern immigrants and such? Nah.[/QUOTE] Heh, My uncle emigrated to Britain from Iran during the 1979 revolution. He was a communist at the time a dirt poor. Now he provides [URL="http://www.circlepartnership.co.uk/"]healthcare[/URL] in the UK and has met the prime minister and Prince Charles. But yeah I guess you're right, people from africa and the middle east never amount to anything. [editline]18th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sonerin;36821342]So that means they don't follow the commands, what they are ordered to do. That means they're not following the rules, thus making them "Christians" who think they're Christians but don't follow what the Bible says. That's not how you're a Christian/Muslim. In order to be one, you have to follow everything your book says.[/QUOTE] Yup that's why we have Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, Orthodoxists, Pentecostalists, Adventists, Puritans, Presbytarians, Reformists, Jehovah Witnesses, Assyrianists, Christadelphians etc etc there are a bunch more I don't want to type out. They all read the same book and they all interpret it different ways.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;36821824]Heh, My uncle emigrated to Britain from Iran during the 1979 revolution. He was a communist at the time a dirt poor. Now he provides [URL="http://www.circlepartnership.co.uk/"]healthcare[/URL] in the UK and has met the prime minister and Prince Charles. But yeah I guess you're right, people from africa and the middle east never amount to anything. [editline]18th July 2012[/editline] Yup that's why we have Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, Orthodoxists, Pentecostalists, Adventists, Puritans, Presbytarians, Reformists, Jehovah Witnesses, Assyrianists, Christadelphians etc etc there are a bunch more I don't want to type out. They all read the same book and they all interpret it different ways.[/QUOTE] Persians are great people, Africans and such too. I'm not insulting anyone's country, I am just saying that a lot of African countries are unwealthy and people are uneducated because of low wealth. Middle East is about the same. And like I said before, religions are never correct/true, so their sects are also bullshit since they're coming from the root religion (Christianity, Islam, etc.). The Catholic belief's falseness is just as the same with Protestanism. What I'm trying to say is, the root/main religion is violent. If you follow Qur'an, you are violent. [QUOTE=thisispain;36821465]okay yet say not following "the rules" means you're not a muslim or a christian? according to you a muslim isn't a muslim if they don't kill people. if that is true then what the fuck are they?[/QUOTE] They are people who think they are Muslims. If you're not going to follow your religion's rules, then why would you call yourself the follower of a religion? (ie: a Muslim) If you call yourself a Muslim and don't bother following your Qur'an's rules, then you're not a Muslim, you're a fucking dumbarse.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36823534]Persians are great people, Africans and such too. I'm not insulting anyone's country, I am just saying that a lot of African countries are unwealthy and people are uneducated because of low wealth. Middle East is about the same. And like I said before, religions are never correct/true, so their sects are also bullshit since they're coming from the root religion (Christianity, Islam, etc.). The Catholic belief's falseness is just as the same with Protestanism. What I'm trying to say is, the root/main religion is violent. If you follow Qur'an, you are violent. They are people who think they are Muslims. If you're not going to follow your religion's rules, then why would you call yourself the follower of a religion? (ie: a Muslim) If you call yourself a Muslim and don't bother following your Qur'an's rules, then you're not a Muslim, you're a fucking dumbarse.[/QUOTE] That's like saying we have to read through the entire end users' agreement in order for us to be good and loyal customers.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36826744]That's like saying we have to read through the entire end users' agreement in order for us to be good and loyal customers.[/QUOTE] You gave a bad example here. Let me give you a better one. Calling yourself a Muslim/Christian before reading Quran/Bible is like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery. It's plain dumb to call yourself a Muslim/Christian before knowing what your own religion is about, and to know what your own religion is about, you need to read your holy book.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36827492]You gave a bad example here. Let me give you a better one. Calling yourself a Muslim/Christian before reading Quran/Bible is like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery. It's plain dumb to call yourself a Muslim/Christian before knowing what your own religion is about, and to know what your own religion is about, you need to read your holy book.[/QUOTE] Does their title really matter?
The problem with immigration is that many times the immigrants are willing, for many reasons, to work harder but more importantly work [I]better[/I] than the local population, who feel out-competed out of things they do not deserve. This creates conflict, which is bad
multiculturalism destroys nations, fact look at us, sweden, norway, france, germany, even mexico (which is even more colonized than the US)... pretty much the entire western world is being undermined by zionist immigration policy.
[QUOTE=Hayburner;36832478]multiculturalism destroys nations, fact look at us, sweden, norway, france, germany, even mexico (which is even more colonized than the US)... pretty much the entire western world is being undermined by zionist immigration policy.[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you going on about now.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36823534]then you're not a Muslim, you're a fucking dumbarse.[/QUOTE] okay, so then you should be fine with dumbarse's entering your country because they aren't muslims. problem solved. [editline]18th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Hayburner;36832478]multiculturalism destroys nations[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hayburner;36832478]sweden, norway, france, germany[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hayburner;36832478]destroys nations[/QUOTE] they seem pretty fine to me
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;36832785]What the fuck are you going on about now.[/QUOTE] He has a point. [QUOTE=thisispain;36832864]okay, so then you should be fine with dumbarse's entering your country because they aren't muslims. problem solved.[/QUOTE] They are still dumbarses, so I'm afraid not.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36835199]He has a point. They are still dumbarses, so I'm afraid not.[/QUOTE] Then what exactly are you argueing? That people who you consider stupid shouldn't be able to immigrate to a country? What is the criteria for your immigration?
[QUOTE=Valnar;36835662]Then what exactly are you argueing? That people who you consider stupid shouldn't be able to immigrate to a country? What is the criteria for your immigration?[/QUOTE] If someone is dumb enough to even call himself a Christian/Muslim before reading their own holy book and knowing what their religion is about, then yeah, stay in your own country.
[QUOTE=Hayburner;36832478]multiculturalism destroys nations, fact look at us, sweden, norway, france, germany, even mexico (which is even more colonized than the US)... pretty much the entire western world is being undermined by zionist immigration policy.[/QUOTE] Norway has the highest standard of living in the world doesn't it? I think they're pretty stingy about immigration already though. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Absynth;36836155]If someone is dumb enough to even call himself a Christian/Muslim before reading their own holy book and knowing what their religion is about, then yeah, stay in your own country.[/QUOTE] why [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] are they incapable of being a functioning member of society if they don't read the bible or the koran? do they have no purpose other than what their holy book tells them?
[QUOTE=Absynth;36836155]If someone is dumb enough to even call himself a Christian/Muslim before reading their own holy book and knowing what their religion is about, then yeah, stay in your own country.[/QUOTE] well you're just a bigot
[QUOTE=Lambeth;36836431]Norway has the highest standard of living in the world doesn't it? I think they're pretty stingy about immigration already though. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] why [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] are they incapable of being a functioning member of society if they don't read the bible or the koran? do they have no purpose other than what their holy book tells them?[/QUOTE] If they don't read the Bible or the Quran and then call themselves Christians or Muslims, then yes. It's like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36836888]If they don't read the Bible or the Quran and then call themselves Christians or Muslims, then yes. It's like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery.[/QUOTE] No, it's not. You're comparing a mechanical engineer to a spiritual belief. It's like saying that you're not allowed to be a liberal or a conservative without reading the texts that effectively spurred those movements. Why do you care what they call themselves? Why are you the determining factor on what can or cannot be Christian? Many people have, in fact, read the Qur'an and simply leave it open to interpretation as many Christians do with their Bible. People who believe in the Qur'an aren't more stupid, and they have a moral compass as well, you know. Also, why is it NOW a problem if they're Christian? You didn't mention that the first time you opened your bigoted mouth and said that Middle Easterners/Africans shouldn't move to whatever country you inhabit. There's no evidence saying that they're more poor than other people, and if they ARE poor when living there despite being having the same/more income as most immigrants, then that's a problem with integration into the country, not the people themselves. The government should be there to integrate the people correctly into society.
[QUOTE=Zally13;36837506]No, it's not. You're comparing a mechanical engineer to a spiritual belief. It's like saying that you're not allowed to be a liberal or a conservative without reading the texts that effectively spurred those movements. Why do you care what they call themselves? Why are you the determining factor on what can or cannot be Christian? Many people have, in fact, read the Qur'an and simply leave it open to interpretation as many Christians do with their Bible. People who believe in the Qur'an aren't more stupid, and they have a moral compass as well, you know. Also, why is it NOW a problem if they're Christian? You didn't mention that the first time you opened your bigoted mouth and said that Middle Easterners/Africans shouldn't move to whatever country you inhabit. There's no evidence saying that they're more poor than other people, and if they ARE poor when living there despite being having the same/more income as most immigrants, then that's a problem with integration into the country, not the people themselves. The government should be there to integrate the people correctly into society.[/QUOTE] I gave a perfect example. If you don't know what your religion is about, what you are supposed to believe in, what your rules are, then why do you tell people that you believe in this religion? (simply put, call yourself a Muslim?) And what I'm saying about Christianity is; If a Christian calls himself a Christian before reading the Bible, he's just as dumb as a Muslim who calls himself a Muslim before reading the Qur'an.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36837672]I gave a perfect example. If you don't know what your religion is about, what you are supposed to believe in, what your rules are, then why do you tell people that you believe in this religion? (simply put, call yourself a Muslim?) And what I'm saying about Christianity is; If a Christian calls himself a Christian before reading the Bible, he's just as dumb as a Muslim who calls himself a Muslim before reading the Qur'an.[/QUOTE] I'm saying it doesn't matter and doesn't make them stupid. Titles don't mean jack shit.
[QUOTE=Zally13;36837757]I'm saying it doesn't matter and doesn't make them stupid. Titles don't mean jack shit.[/QUOTE] Titles? What are you even talking about? And it does matter, you have to read your holy book before calling yourself a Muslim. Qur'an tells you what you're supposed to believe in, what your rules are, what you have to do, what is forbidden, what Islam is, et cetera. But calling yourself a Muslim without knowing a a single shit about Islam means you're so fucking dumb.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36837809]Titles? What are you even talking about? And it does matter, you have to read your holy book before calling yourself a Muslim. Qur'an tells you what you're supposed to believe in, what your rules are, what you have to do, what is forbidden, what Islam is, et cetera. But calling yourself a Muslim without knowing a a single shit about Islam means you're so fucking dumb.[/QUOTE] Titles. The name, Muslim, doesn't really matter. The thing is, you're ignoring my primary point. INTERPRETATION. Many Muslims say that the violent texts are to be interpreted in self-defense. They should be used only in certain circumstances. Religion is more complex than what their holy book says, just ask anybody with faith.
[QUOTE=sonerin;36780357]Because African and Middle Eastern immigrants are usually coming from low-tier families and the majority of them are uneducated and poor so they end up wasting others' spaces and most of them become criminals.[/QUOTE] Not only racist, but generalising as heck. You're the one wasting my space by being discriminatory. There should be a requirement of immigrants who want to live in this country so that they can help others. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sonerin;36823534] They are people who think they are Muslims. If you're not going to follow your religion's rules, then why would you call yourself the follower of a religion? (ie: a Muslim) If you call yourself a Muslim and don't bother following your Qur'an's rules, then you're not a Muslim, you're a fucking dumbarse.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly sure it's not a requirement of Muslims to murder people. For that reason, please stop getting your knowledge from imbecile extremists. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sonerin;36821342]In order to be one, you have to follow everything your book says. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. Unless you want to be an extremist. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] This thread isn't about religion.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36837809]Titles? What are you even talking about? And it does matter, you have to read your holy book before calling yourself a Muslim. Qur'an tells you what you're supposed to believe in, what your rules are, what you have to do, what is forbidden, what Islam is, et cetera. But calling yourself a Muslim without knowing a a single shit about Islam means you're so fucking dumb.[/QUOTE] so are you saying most muslims are fake or what, would you like me to cite the rape-inducing verses from the bible? last time i checked, most christians aren't rapists.
[QUOTE=AK'z;36838088]Not only racist, but generalising as heck. You're the one wasting my space by being discriminatory. There should be a requirement of immigrants who want to live in this country so that they can help others. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] I'm fairly sure it's not a requirement of Muslims to murder people. For that reason, please stop getting your knowledge from imbecile extremists. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] Not necessarily. Unless you want to be an extremist. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] This thread isn't about religion.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily? It's what your religion commands you to do so. If you go against your religion, then you're pretty much going against your own religion. That makes you a dumb religious person. It's like breaking the regular law and calling yourself a law abiding citizen. And I'm not the one who brought up the religion topic. [QUOTE=Zally13;36837975]Titles. The name, Muslim, doesn't really matter. The thing is, you're ignoring my primary point. INTERPRETATION. Many Muslims say that the violent texts are to be interpreted in self-defense. They should be used only in certain circumstances. Religion is more complex than what their holy book says, just ask anybody with faith.[/QUOTE] Self defense? Qur'an: Kill all non-muslims unless they convert into Islam. Qur'an: Women are inferior to men. The story of Umm Qirfa. Do they sound any self defensive to you? [QUOTE=Bobie;36838214]so are you saying most muslims are fake or what, would you like me to cite the rape-inducing verses from the bible? last time i checked, most christians aren't rapists.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they are fake.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36838281]Not necessarily? It's what your religion commands you to do so. If you go against your religion, then you're pretty much going against your own religion. That makes you a dumb religious person. It's like breaking the regular law and calling yourself a law abiding citizen. [/QUOTE] It's up to the individual if he's breaking the law or not. It's not your call as to whether he's a "lukewarm" muslim/christian, and quite frankly I don't care if they do not wholeheartedly submit to their holy books. I only judge their perspective and not how strict they are as a religious person. I don't pick fights with "lukewarm" Christians. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Absynth;36838281] Self defense? Qur'an: Kill all non-muslims unless they convert into Islam. Qur'an: Women are inferior to men. The story of Umm Qirfa. [/QUOTE] Sounds like you only respect religious people who are murderers and sexists.
I think, as a nationalist trying to explain why you disprove immigration you won't get much appreciation if you only speak about the cultural impact on the country in question. Even if you think that reason is enough, they won't sadly. Therefore you must also bring in the objective downsides of immigration. Like crime rate, economy and welfare. As far as I know, Sweden don't keep any statistics of ethnicity in crime charts but I know Norway does, which also have the same large mass-immigration. [url=http://drommerjagbara.blogspot.se/2011/05/aftonbladet-orerar-om-norsk.html]This is a good explanation[/url]. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaAjUA2DJ9c]And here is an interview about sexual crimes in Oslo and reported ethnicity of the offender[/url]. [url=http://www.ssb.no/a_krim_tab/tab/tab-2007-02-21-04.html]Norway had 840 reported rapes in 2006[/url]. [url=http://www.bra.se/download/18.395cc8381309cd1546c80002965/10La_anm_fr1950.xlsx]Sweden had 4 749 reported rapes in 2007[/url]. And this is sexual crimes alone. You can find some very interesting statistics about other crimes too if you look at the charts. [url=http://www.eso.expertgrupp.se/Uploads/Documents/ESO%20rapport%203.pdf]Economy has been reportedly declining[/url]. Either way, whether immigration is good or bad for a country, it doesn't change anything in the country the asylum seekers migrated from. We don't make a noticeable difference. What I feel is that, with the huge amount of resources spent on immigration ([I]in my country atleast[/I]), you could make a bigger difference by using these resources and make sure the country where these people come from gets the help they need, where they need it. Their nation/society isn't going to fix itself. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE"]Immigration only speeds up world poverty[/URL]. I'm against immigration, but I would gladly keep paying the same taxes if I knew the money went to localized help organisations.
[QUOTE=AK'z;36838368]It's up to the individual if he's breaking the law or not. It's not your call as to whether he's a "lukewarm" muslim/christian, and quite frankly I don't care if they do not wholeheartedly submit to their holy books. I only judge their perspective and not how strict they are as a religious person. I don't pick fights with "lukewarm" Christians. [/QUOTE] If you don't follow your religious book, don't do what it says, you're not a Muslim. That's the simple truth. [QUOTE=AK'z;36838368] Sounds like you only respect religious people who are murderers and sexists.[/QUOTE] Then why would I be trying to prove that Islam is violent and it shouldn't be welcomed amongst us? ;)
Here in Portugal we have a balanced immigration. There are lots of Chinese, African, Eastern Euopean (these guys really work like hell and they get results), Brazilians and Indian people. I'm not against it, I have lots of friends from those countries, specially Eastern Europeans, they are really nice. But I feel there's a pattern of behaviour, if not a stereotype, that most immigrants kinda act for. For example, chinese people are into commerce, indian people are usually asociated with selling useless junk or drugs... etc etc... Also the statistics speak for themselves. Police commands complain about them since most of the criminals here in Portugal are Brazilian and the next majority of criminals are African. Most of them don't even look for work, they just get here and live of social benefits. I think immigration is ok, but the law and control should be stricter. I love having diversity but I can't stand when foreigners disrespect our country as much as I don't like strange people in my home abusing my hospitality. But hey, I'm just speaking for what I see here. I'm totally ok with foreigners here in general.
[QUOTE=Absynth;36836888]If they don't read the Bible or the Quran and then call themselves Christians or Muslims, then yes. It's like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery.[/QUOTE] It's nothing like that. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] Imagine if none of it was written down. If the religion existed only on word of mouth and in the minds of people. [editline]19th July 2012[/editline] Does it make sense in that context for people to know everything about their religion?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.