• Homosexuality - Is it a gene or a choice?
    516 replies, posted
[QUOTE=deaded38;35615328]That's awfully shitty to be honest. Not that rule. But the sheer fact people these people will rely more on a "credible" article rather than something that actually makes sense just because "it wouldn't be debating".[/QUOTE] Putting credibility in quotes doesn't suddenly mean it doesn't matter. You cannot make a sound argument on the basis of supposed common sense alone. [editline]17th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;35615376]I'm not the only one who believes this. I'm sure there are sources (like I really need them...)[/QUOTE] If there are then by all means posted them. Continuing to argue like this unsubstantiated is against the rules in this section.
Deaded I highly doubt your common sense is peer-reviewed.
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35615411]With that statement you are still simply brushing off opposing points rather than making any effort to prove them wrong. You are very ignorant, and arrogant, to claim that we do not agree with you 'because you are right'. You seem to be the only one debating your side of the argument by this point in the thread, and have consistently proven yourself to be incapable of mature debate. For this reason, I also support the locking of this thread.[/QUOTE] Brushing off? I'm brushing it off because it's ridiculous. I can say we're all being mind controlled by evil donkeys with sledgehammers in another land, but does that make it right? No. I have made an effort to prove them wrong. I just haven't done it the way all of you want me to: GO FUCKING LOOK UP A CREDIBLE ONLINE ARTICLE AND POST IT HERE SO WE CAN ALL SAY "NOPE" JUST LIKE WE ARE NOW! I don't see how I've even proven myself to be ignorant or arrogant. Maybe a little ignorant is some people's minds, but those are the people who don't understand a damn thing about human behavior (which you don't either, apparently). Saying that I'm arrogant is a very wild claim to make me look stupid. I am in no way full of myself. Also, you keep referring to my argument as if I'm the only one who believes it. Many people more qualified than I believe this, so stop with that right there. I can debate. I just won't make my claims based solely on some shitty internet article and nothing else. Hell, if I knew the Mass Debate section was going to be like that, I probably would've never even looked in this section. But you know what? I'll still keep posting whether you guys like it or not. You (and the others who want this thread locked) are little babies because someone posted something logical without a source. I may be "immature", but at least I think for myself.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35615550]Brushing off? I'm brushing it off because it's ridiculous. I can say we're all being mind controlled by evil donkeys with sledgehammers in another land, but does that make it right? No. I have made an effort to prove them wrong. I just haven't done it the way all of you want me to: GO FUCKING LOOK UP A CREDIBLE ONLINE ARTICLE AND POST IT HERE SO WE CAN ALL SAY "NOPE" JUST LIKE WE ARE NOW! I don't see how I've even proven myself to be ignorant or arrogant. Maybe a little ignorant is some people's minds, but those are the people who don't understand a damn thing about human behavior (which you don't either, apparently). Saying that I'm arrogant is a very wild claim to make me look stupid. I am in no way full of myself. Also, you keep referring to my argument as if I'm the only one who believes it. Many people more qualified than I believe this, so stop with that right there. I can debate. I just won't make my claims based solely on some shitty internet article and nothing else. Hell, if I knew the Mass Debate section was going to be like that, I probably would've never even looked in this section. But you know what? I'll still keep posting whether you guys like it or not. You (and the others who want this thread locked) are little babies because someone posted something logical without a source. I may be "immature", but at least I think for myself.[/QUOTE] If you continue to go on this tirade and insist that people debating with cited sources are somehow less credible than your own unbacked positions, there will have to be consequences. I've given you more than one chance to redeem yourself, so just stop.
So I thought I'd add my opinion on the matter too. From personal experience(which obviously is not a universal answer) I can tell that being homosexual is NOT a choice, accepting it and living a homosexual way however is a choice. In fact, it's kinda weird I never really felt attracted to men when I was younger, neither I was afraid of gay people, it just seemed rather awkward or "unknown". My attitude then changed within 2 or 4 month, when I was about 16 1/2. So the only real choice I could make was to either accept or suppress it. I thought a lot about why this happened and came to the conclusion that every human might have something like a "blockade" that's suppose to stop us from loving others with the same sex. I can't tell if it's a nature or a nurture barrier it's just a though, I'm not going to proof it or anything it's just what I think it is. Since I cannot tell if this barrier is real or not, assuming it is being homosexual is not a choice, if it isn't it would be a choice, even if it was one you can't controll.
[QUOTE=Wizard of Ass;35616905]So I thought I'd add my opinion on the matter too. From personal experience(which obviously is not a universal answer) I can tell that being homosexual is NOT a choice, accepting it and living a homosexual way however is a choice. In fact, it's kinda weird I never really felt attracted to men when I was younger, neither I was afraid of gay people, it just seemed rather awkward or "unknown". My attitude then changed within 2 or 4 month, when I was about 16 1/2. So the only real choice I could make was to either accept or suppress it. I thought a lot about why this happened and came to the conclusion that every human might have something like a "blockade" that's suppose to stop us from loving others with the same sex. I can't tell if it's a nature or a nurture barrier it's just a though, I'm not going to proof it or anything it's just what I think it is. Since I cannot tell if this barrier is real or not, assuming it is being homosexual is not a choice, if it isn't it would be a choice, even if it was one you can't controll.[/QUOTE] This is basically the same way I feel. Infact, I could measure how far right on the Kinsey scale I was going. Around only 6-7 months ago I felt that I was perfectly bisexual, and now I can only just barely get attracted to the idea of a woman. I don't think this is at all what other people have experienced, given how they've talked about it. I'm 16 1/2 right now, for reference. edit: Also, I was completely straight a year ago. I can't really remember when I started becoming/realizing I was attracted to the same sex. [sup][sup](though i started looking at gay dragon porn that might've had something to do with it)[/sup][/sup]
That is a nice model post for personal experience/opinion input. [QUOTE=Wizard of Ass;35616905] Since I cannot tell if this barrier is real or not, assuming it is being homosexual is not a choice, if it isn't it would be a choice, even if it was one you can't controll.[/QUOTE] We could talk about this more clearly if you would clarify whether or not you were ever attracted to the opposite sex, and if/when that stopped. As for myself, I would tell myself at an early age that I was attracted to women because I would not admit my attraction to men. After I accepted myself, psychological barriers in my ability to think rationally fell and I was able to clearly see that anything I felt for women was not attraction in any sense like that I have for men. [editline]18th April 2012[/editline] post directed at wizard
Choice is highly unlikely, if you take it in the literal sense i.e 'I will or will not homosexual today'. My general consensus is that it is genes, because I certainly didn't choose to be attracted to both sexes. It was more that once I realised, I just accepted it as a part of who I am.
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35617646]That is a nice model post for personal experience/opinion input. We could talk about this more clearly if you would clarify whether or not you were ever attracted to the opposite sex, and if/when that stopped. As for myself, I would tell myself at an early age that I was attracted to women because I would not admit my attraction to men. After I accepted myself, psychological barriers in my ability to think rationally fell and I was able to clearly see that anything I felt for women was not attraction in any sense like that I have for men. [editline]18th April 2012[/editline] post directed at wizard[/QUOTE] Well, I certainly was attracted to the opposite sex (sexual and emotional), and I still am for a very very little part, only sexual though. But since my orientation changed I'm basically not capable to have feelings for girls/women.
I think it's a choice and a gene. Maybe everyone has such gene, but it's our own choice to choose who we want to be together with - friends wise - and who we don't want to. It'll eventually change the way we look at the world and act, all depending on whom we're spending much time with.
[QUOTE=jeopardy2630;35621852]I think it's a choice and a gene. Maybe everyone has such gene, but it's our own choice to choose who we want to be together with - friends wise - and who we don't want to. It'll eventually change the way we look at the world and act, all depending on whom we're spending much time with.[/QUOTE] I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't choose to want to be around men. Unless you mean it's a choice whether or not we should suppress out natural inclination?
I still don't see why we're keeping this open. The more people post, the less they bother to read any arguments that have already been presented, which means more stupid will continue to flow into this thread.
Okay, here's the deal: If anyone of you can tell me how my argument is "bullshit" without redirecting me to a website (which you can't), I'll find all the sources you want. "BUT O MAI GAWD DATS NAWT HAO U DEBATZ" <- If you're going to pull that shit, then you've just proven my argument. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Consistently refusing to cite sources, despite multiple warnings. - Real 2nd MD Offense" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=deaded38;35640416]Okay, here's the deal: If anyone of you can tell me how my argument is "bullshit" without redirecting me to a website (which you can't), I'll find all the sources you want. "BUT O MAI GAWD DATS NAWT HAO U DEBATZ" <- If you're going to pull that shit, then you've just proven my argument.[/QUOTE] Jesus fucking christ alright post any one of your insane arguments and I'll copy and paste all the information you'll ever need from any of the articles I'm intelligent enough to read. I still wouldn't be linking from another website, would I? It's called doing research. If you are an imbecile of such magnitudes you really can't take the time to educate yourself on a topic what are you doing here.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35640416]Okay, here's the deal: If anyone of you can tell me how my argument is "bullshit" without redirecting me to a website (which you can't), I'll find all the sources you want. "BUT O MAI GAWD DATS NAWT HAO U DEBATZ" <- If you're going to pull that shit, then you've just proven my argument.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make sense. If we're not allowed to use sources, why are you allowed to use sources?
[QUOTE=deaded38;35509972]It's been proven that if you are raised in an abusive environment, you have a high chance of becoming abusive yourself. This obviously isn't always the case seeing as how some abused children end up being quite successful. But those children who ended up not being abusive [B]must have had some sort of support[/B] to keep them from becoming abusive. See how that works? Now switch that situation around with sexual orientation:[/QUOTE] This is a week late and you're banned but you aren't right here. My father was an extremely abusive person. The reason I didn't turn out the same was not because I had some sort of support. I didn't turn out the same because I was determined to not be such a despicable person.
It's a gene that you are attracted to the same sex. It's a choice to face that you have this gene.
[QUOTE=Torjuz;35695268]It's a gene that you are attracted to the same sex. It's a choice to face that you have this gene.[/QUOTE] Evidence to support your claim?
New thread title idea here [I] "Reality of Life - Can things be due to a variety of causes or do we only have two falsely definite choices in every matter?"[/I] It's a bit of both. Stop trying to definitely say its 100% due to one, or 100% due to the other. People aren't born 100% gay or 100% straight, but they are born with a degree of inherent preference. With that in mind there is a degree of choice and preference in the matter as well.
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;35706731]Evidence to support your claim?[/QUOTE] Personal experience.
I think it's a little bit genetic and mostly what preferences you grow into. Maybe in a way it's just like a girl can prefer older men because she had no father around. I haven't read that much about it but thats what logically feels right to me.
People, if you're going to make a claim, please do what you're supposed to and provide evidence. Otherwise it starts a flamewar.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35709051]Personal experience.[/QUOTE] I'm afraid that's not evidence.
[QUOTE=Patjo_sweden;35709095]I haven't read that much about it[/QUOTE] and here lies the problem
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;35640675]Jesus fucking christ alright post any one of your insane arguments and I'll copy and paste all the information you'll ever need from any of the articles I'm intelligent enough to read. I still wouldn't be linking from another website, would I? It's called doing research. If you are an imbecile of such magnitudes you really can't take the time to educate yourself on a topic what are you doing here.[/QUOTE] I have been educated on the subject. It's called human behavior. Something you should really take into consideration when discussing topics like this. The offer still stands. Prove me wrong without using a source and I'll find all the sources you want. I'm not refusing to use sources - just simply proving you can't disprove my argument without using them. It humors me, really. The fact that you let some online article teach you how to think. Go to school and learn something about human behavior. That is, unless your school doesn't teach human behavior. In which case, you shouldn't be arguing with me. My argument has been approved, for your information. I'm not just pulling all this out of my ass. My teacher (who understands this stuff better than me or you) has agreed that my argument is very possible (though not probable). If you must know, she went to school for several years studying shit like this.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35719012]I have been educated on the subject. It's called human behavior. Something you should really take into consideration when discussing topics like this. The offer still stands. Prove me wrong without using a source and I'll find all the sources you want. I'm not refusing to use sources - just simply proving you can't disprove my argument without using them. It humors me, really. The fact that you let some online article teach you how to think. Go to school and learn something about human behavior. That is, unless your school doesn't teach human behavior. In which case, you shouldn't be arguing with me. My argument has been approved, for your information. I'm not just pulling all this out of my ass. My teacher (who understands this stuff better than me or you) has agreed that my argument is very possible (though not probable). If you must know, she went to school for several years studying shit like this.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ man, just humour us please. Even if you are correct, it's just proper debating etiquette to use citations and evidence.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35719012]I have been educated on the subject. It's called human behavior. Something you should really take into consideration when discussing topics like this. The offer still stands. Prove me wrong without using a source and I'll find all the sources you want. I'm not refusing to use sources - just simply proving you can't disprove my argument without using them. It humors me, really. The fact that you let some online article teach you how to think. Go to school and learn something about human behavior. That is, unless your school doesn't teach human behavior. In which case, you shouldn't be arguing with me. My argument has been approved, for your information. I'm not just pulling all this out of my ass. My teacher (who understands this stuff better than me or you) has agreed that my argument is very possible (though not probable). If you must know, she went to school for several years studying shit like this.[/QUOTE] You have yet to prove us wrong without evidence, I believe the burden of proof is on you.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35719012]The offer still stands. Prove me wrong without using a source and I'll find all the sources you want. I'm not refusing to use sources - just simply proving you can't disprove my argument without using them. It humors me, really. The fact that you let some online article teach you how to think. Go to school and learn something about human behavior. That is, unless your school doesn't teach human behavior. In which case, you shouldn't be arguing with me. My argument has been approved, for your information. I'm not just pulling all this out of my ass. My teacher (who understands this stuff better than me or you) has agreed that my argument is very possible (though not probable). If you must know, she went to school for several years studying shit like this.[/QUOTE] You really, really, [B]really[/B] don't understand debating do you? Even the most battle hardened debaters, with the highest degrees in their subject will not fall back on "lol i r educate!", they will cite sources, studies and papers for every claim they make. Studies will cite other studies to back up claims they make, it's just basic debating and research to actually show people where you are pulling shit from. "Knowing" it is not valid if you can't prove you have a valid piece of information that someone else could use to look at it in detail. You are the one bringing counter-arguments to the topic at hand, you are the one citing "human behaviour", therefore you are the one with the burden of evidence. If you cannot provide evidence to back up your point, then your point becomes invalid to the debate. If you provide evidence for your points, then people can use their sources to attempt to discredit your points and sources, ad infinitum until one side is proven objectively wrong or concedes to the other. Right now you are just discrediting yourself with every argument you make. The people actually using sources are beating your arguments every step of the way and you are making a massive tit of yourself.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35719012]I have been educated on the subject. It's called human behavior. Something you should really take into consideration when discussing topics like this. The offer still stands. Prove me wrong without using a source and I'll find all the sources you want. I'm not refusing to use sources - just simply proving you can't disprove my argument without using them. It humors me, really. The fact that you let some online article teach you how to think. Go to school and learn something about human behavior. That is, unless your school doesn't teach human behavior. In which case, you shouldn't be arguing with me. My argument has been approved, for your information. I'm not just pulling all this out of my ass. My teacher (who understands this stuff better than me or you) has agreed that my argument is very possible (though not probable). If you must know, she went to school for several years studying shit like this.[/QUOTE] As the expression goes, put up or shut up. You've wasted even text in this thread as it is, and continuing to claim that you're educated enough or have spoken to enough educated people to not require evidence is ridiculous.
Articles are never a credible way to get information. What you see as knowledge is really a person of many beliefs, ideologies, and goals behind it. Anyone justifying their beliefs with an article have no idea how to think independently and their words should be discarded.
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