• Homosexuality - Is it a gene or a choice?
    516 replies, posted
[QUOTE]In my own terms, I believe it is a gene; mostly because of the characteristics of homosexuals. I don't think it's just canny that they act similar as if they were a certain race.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure that's a good way to think about it. There could be many reasons why we percieve that they apperantly act in a distinct way. Maybe it is because of societal pressure that puts them into a group where they are expected to act in this way. Maybe the perception is all wrong because we just notice the flamboyant ones a lot more than those who are less obvious. The way I see it, choice is completely out of the question. Almost all homosexuals go through a lot of shit because of their sexuality in one way or another. Nobody would willingly pick that, if they really could choose what to like. It's also really easy to figure out if you, as a heterosexual, look at your own sexuality. I don't think anybody can say they have felt like they "chose" to be heterosexual. To me the question is more like this; is it a gene or is it caused by something else? And to that I think that it is probably an intricate mixture of genetics, hormones and environment. When I say intricate, what I mean is that it is very unclear. I don't think there is one single gay gene, and I don't think there's a single occurrence in a gay person's life that caused it to happen, but I think genetics, hormones and maybe something in the early childhood all play a role in causing a person's sexuality. I think it works the same way for every other sexuality and deviant sexuality as well.
Don't quote me on this, but I remember reading that transsexuality is essentially gene-related, and it's some kind of chemical (not sure if it was hormones) that he/she has an excess of, essentially confirming the "Girl in boy body/Boy in girl body"-theory. I could see something similar being in homosexuals. Not that it's a bad thing. Now a real question is: If homosexuality/transsexuality can ever be "cured" - is that a bad thing? Personally, I think it depends. If the individual wants to be "cured", let them. But nobody should be forced.
[QUOTE=Derp Y. Mail;35133619]Now a real question is: If homosexuality/transsexuality can ever be "cured" - is that a bad thing? Personally, I think it depends. If the individual wants to be "cured", let them. But nobody should be forced.[/QUOTE] I don't think so, actually. I mean, back in the day there were people who tried to do that and they did it very passionately. I don't think their attempts ever succeeded in doing anything more than making homosexuals start pretending to be heterosexual and to be completely ashamed of their sexuality. I'm sure there were quite a few of the homosexuals that were already so ashamed to begin with, that they tried to cure themselves on their own volition. All in all, I think "curing" [i](changing)[/i] your sexuality, whatever it is, is at best extremely hard, and impossible at worst. Either way, it seems to me to be a sure way to suppress your own feelings and ultimately just means harming yourself. I imagine that a person of any sexuality would actually get stronger feelings if they try to repress it. Does anyone have a link to that video about this issue? I remember some animated video that explained something like this. [editline]14th March 2012[/editline] Oh, would you look at that, it's right here. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM[/media]
It's certainly an interesting question, I have no doubt that it's an inbuilt part of the person. That said, homosexuality isn't limited to humans, it's been observed in other species (I've personally owned gay birds :v:). It looks to be a nature instead of nurture thing, but then what is the actual biological cause for it, and why does it happen?
[QUOTE=Remus;35132454]Besides, a gene implies you could pass it on by reproduction, which isn't true.[/QUOTE] Actually it's known that some women are more prone to giving birth to gay males. Also these women's bodies compensate for this by being more fertile.
Why are you asking a forum full of high school students a question which continues to be prevalent in the science community. Do you expect a bunch of teenagers to be responsible for a massive scientific breakthrough?
[url]http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/research-confirms-gay-gene-discovery-1580244.html[/url] [url]http://www.livescience.com/2623-gays-dont-extinct.html[/url] [url]http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20050128/is-there-gay-gene[/url] Here's a bunch of articles which prove that homosexuality is not a choice and is at least in part genetic. [editline]14th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lionlive;35134178]Why are you asking a forum full of high school students a question which continues to be prevalent in the science community. Do you expect a bunch of teenagers to be responsible for a massive scientific breakthrough?[/QUOTE] No. We're having a simple debate about this issue. Why do you think our goal is to make a scientific advancement?
When it comes to identical twins who have been separated at birth, if one is gay there is a 60% chance that the other will be gay as well, at least according to my old college textbook. *eh, I should have watched that video first, it mentions this in a way...
Sexuality is very complex, biologically and metaphysically. Homosexuality is just the development of lusting/emotion after the same sex. People with strong sexual willpower can coerce others just by seducing their desires. Men who are homophobic are intimidated by homosexuals, because they internalized their fear of losing dignity/control to impulses. Non-homophobic heterosexuals are free from this. They are indifferent to homosexuals.
I don't see why it would be any different to how fetishes develop so I assume it's pretty much nurture.
It's neither a gene nor an option. I can't say I [I]know [/I]that it's psychological, but it [I]can[/I] be, in [I]some[/I] cases. Not a psychological disfunction, mind you, but more of a characteristic or part of personality.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;35135839]I don't see why it would be any different to how fetishes develop so I assume it's pretty much nurture.[/QUOTE] Fetishes are dumb anyway, you can't condition yourself to be gay. But you can pretend you're a wolf.
[QUOTE=Legend286;35136014]Fetishes are dumb anyway, you can't condition yourself to be gay. But you can pretend you're a wolf.[/QUOTE] Pretending to be a wolf isn't a fetish, being sexually attracted to the idea of being a wolf is a paraphilia (which is kind of the same as a fetish but some people are fussy about the terminology) and is not a choice.
I'm bisexual and I can turn my attraction to either sex on and off like a tap I also have gay days and straight days It's pretty weird
[QUOTE=Darkimmortal;35136103]I'm bisexual and I can turn my attraction to either sex on and off like a tap I also have gay days and straight days It's pretty weird[/QUOTE] I know that feeling. It's really hard to explain :d
[QUOTE=Darkimmortal;35136103]I'm bisexual and I can turn my attraction to either sex on and off like a tap I also have gay days and straight days It's pretty weird[/QUOTE] I'm kind of in this camp. I prefer women, but I'm also attracted to men, and it kind of fluctuates as to the extent. I kind of want to say that it's not a choice, but it's not purely genetic. I'm split on the issue, but I totally support gay rights/liberties to their fullest regardless.
[QUOTE=Legend286;35136014]Fetishes are dumb anyway, you can't condition yourself to be gay. But you can pretend you're a wolf.[/QUOTE] Maybe you could condition yourself to be gay. Of course any straight person would see no reason to do so, but I think it could be possible. I remember listening to a episode of the Joe Rogan podcast (I know, I know. This may not be the most credible source, but it is interesting) where he was talking about how he got a foot fetish because of this one girl he dated who would jerk him off with her feet. He had no previous inclinations to feet but because of this sexual experience he developed some weird foot fetish. In theory this could probably happen to a straight person with a gay person, however, in practice it would never happen because there would be no reason for any straight person to even try this and it just isn't practical at all. Or maybe I'm completely wrong because I don't really understand fetishes at all, the closest thing to a fetish I have is my adoration for 'dat ass'.
Last I saw of science on this sort if thing was an article in Nature pointing to chemical imbalances in the brain causing homosexuality in male mice. Now whether this is applicable to human males, I can't say.
I thought it was chemical not genetic.
[QUOTE=JamesRaynor;35136654]I thought it was chemical not genetic.[/QUOTE] That'd imply the genes were modified. Which I doubt.
[QUOTE=Derp Y. Mail;35136806]That'd imply the genes were modified. Which I doubt.[/QUOTE] Well, there can be chemical reasoning unrelated to genetics. For example, pregnant women that have already given birth to a son have typically higher levels of androgenic steroids. This can cause noticeable changes in men, such as a more feminine ratio between the length of the index and ring fingers that are characteristic of homosexual men, among other things. [url=http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/readings/homofinger/homo_finger.html]See also[/url]
[QUOTE=Fkpuz Version 1;35136510]fetish stuff[/quote] I think it's possible to condition yourself into liking a fetish, but I believe sexuality is harder, if not impossible to condition. Think gay therapy camps, for example. They make you "ungay" but you are still gay.
[QUOTE=Legend286;35136014]Fetishes are dumb anyway[/QUOTE] how are fetishes dumb? it's just the weird part of everyone's life.
I don't think it is gene controlled or choice. It [B]IS[/B] your choice to show it though. Conditioning is good idea. But if a human thinks it's not the way it should be for them, then they are entitled to believe so, just so long as it does not harm any other human mentally or physically. Humans are stubborn by nature, so conditioning won't work in most cases, unless the captive (I would presume that they were captured for anyone to do this) has a strange form of Stockholm Syndrome. So it just depends on your preference, but it is also like the automatic nervous system in our bodies, you can't control it. But it has the way of showing up over time. My cousin had eight girlfriends before he told us he was gay. Most of these girlfriends he liked very much, was going to marry one at one point. Like I said, preference, but a preference that builds over time.
I said this in the other thread, but I'll say it again just in case people didn't see or understand what I was saying. I believe that being gay can be an act of nature or nurture as well as personal choice. Let me explain: Nature: There's some sort of biological factor(s) that contributes to someone becoming gay. This is no doubt the most common cause of people being gay. Nurture: Gays can be "taught" how to be gay. An example of this could be where two gay parents adopt a young child (maybe two years old) and this child grows up not seeing a whole lot of the outside world. Now, this child has seen love in a homosexual way. This child will no doubt end up becoming gay. Of course, other environmental factors do apply. Now let's say this same child grows up around lots of straight friends for a good portion of his life. It depends, but the child could end up being straight depending on other environmental factors. It's all in the environment when it comes down to nurture. Personal Choice: I believe that with the want and support, a gay individual can become straight. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it does take a shitload of time. But does this mean it isn't possible? No, it doesn't. I'm sure there has been at least one gay person in the history of man that has become straight. [editline]14th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Oicani Gonzales;35136002]It's neither a gene nor an option. I can't say I [I]know [/I]that it's psychological, but it [I]can[/I] be, in [I]some[/I] cases. Not a psychological disfunction, mind you, but more of a characteristic or part of personality.[/QUOTE] So what you're trying to say is "gays are just gay because they are gay and stuff". Seriously, gays aren't gay "just because they are". There is some sort of reason behind it.
I wasn't attracted to guys until I was in middle school. I don't think it's a gene or a choice, well maybe a choice in some circumstances. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not anyways
[QUOTE=deaded38;35137786] Nurture: Gays can be "taught" how to be gay. An example of this could be where two gay parents adopt a young child (maybe two years old) and this child grows up not seeing a whole lot of the outside world. Now, this child has seen love in a homosexual way. This child will no doubt end up becoming gay.[/QUOTE] the idea behind mass debate isn't to pull things out of your rear end. [quote=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting]A number of studies have examined whether the children of lesbian and gay parents are themselves more likely to identify as lesbian and gay. While reviews of the available studies agree that the vast majority of children of lesbian and gay parents are heterosexual, they differ in regards to whether there is evidence to suggest a comparatively higher rate of homosexuality when compared to the children of heterosexual parents.[/quote] IE there's no evidence to suggest that anything you said is true.
I won't think it's ENTIRELY a gene or genetic until they find solid evidence of it. On the other hand, even if it is a choice, why does it matter. If two guys/girls want to get it on why should I care.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35137968]the idea behind mass debate isn't to pull things out of your rear end. IE there's no evidence to suggest that anything you said is true.[/QUOTE] This is backed up as there have been twin studies, where twins who live in different families, and one is homosexual, have a (I believe, if I remember this right) 70% likelihood of having the same sexuality, even if they don't live with each other, don't know about each other, have different parents, etc. 70% is a bit too high to be nurture exclusive.
It's not a choice to be gay. You can't force your body to change sexuality like that. There are many psychological and physical factors that deal with what people find attractive, and you can't just decide one day that you're going to find something attractive. You can choose to avoid homosexuality, but you can't decide if you're straight to suddenly become a homosexual. Of course, if you are gay, you do have to choose to be gay, but there are more factors than just your personal selection. [QUOTE=Kaarristu;35137929]I wasn't attracted to guys until I was in middle school.[/QUOTE] This doesn't mean it's not genetic. Despite what many people may think, you don't develop your sexuality until you hit puberty and your body begins to produce hormones. If it's in your DNA that you will produce abnormal levels of certain chemicals, then you'll have an attraction to members of your same sex. Chemicals, hormones, and some of your psychology is dependent on genetics. [QUOTE=kebab52;35138130]On the other hand, even if it is a choice, why does it matter. If two guys/girls want to get it on why should I care.[/QUOTE] It shouldn't matter whether or not it's a choice, but the reason that this topic is debated is because certain groups believe that homosexuality is something that can (and should) be cured, as if you could teach people not to be gay. If homosexuality is actually genetic, this would not be possible, so you'll often see anti-gay movements arguing that being gay is a choice and an action, when it is actually based a lot deeper than they can possibly understand.
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